The coming civil war in the US

[Tech_Esq]

"Us" who gunny?

People who would take up arms against the legally constituted government?

Are you really advocating a military coup?

I think I've been pretty clear that I am not advocating taking up arms against the US government. In fact, I have said just the opposite on more than one occasion. The mechanism exists to remove the current politicians from office.

My comment centered solely on a response to the usual, ignorant comment from a faux patriot doing his blind support for the government. The government supports the Constitution. The Constitution does not support politicians. It supports a type of government within its framework.

Yeah, okay.

At what point does one finally decide that the government has gone so rogue that one will take up arms against it?

And if one happens to be in uniform, at what point does somebody in the service decide to shoot their officers who are still supporting that government?

You see what I am asking you, here?

It's easu to speak in theoretical terms, but when push comes to shove how do you KNOW?

It isn't like our government is going to announce that they're totalitarians.

And it isn't like you'll get a fucking email announcing it's time to revolt either, is it?

Revolutions just don't work that way.

Each one of us will find that we are forced to decide for ourselves when the revolution starts.

In the meanwhile those of us in uniform will have little choice but to obey orders.

So what YOUR tipping point?

Be specific, now.

When you are told to fire upon civilians as, for example, US troops have done often in our long history?

And when you finally decide to off your officers, how will you KNOW that the team you are now on will give you a better freeer outcome than the government you are now in opposition to?

Seriously, gun, this talk of revolt is rather silly.

How does one choose up sides?

WACO was an appauling example of our government gone mad, was it not?

So how did you feel when the Federal building was blown in retaliation?

Did you dismiss the dead children in that act of revolution as mere unfortunate collatoral damages, or did you feel that that (possibly justified) retribution just end up killing a lot of innocent people?

This is the problem with revolutions....too many innocent citizens get killed by angry jerks.

Angry jerks like we have aplenty right here on this board.

You are right about each person having to decide. I think your examples are off the mark.

What some on the left are missing right now is they think the right is pissed off because they lost an election. I personally think that's thought is more about transference and how the left felt about Gore v. Bush, but be that as it may, the right is not pissed off about losing an election. You may not believe me, but there it is.

The right is pissed off because they see the country and its basic foundations being fundamentally changed. So, when you ask about the tipping point, many on the right are going through those very tough calculations right now. When will I be so enraged by the unlawful actions of the government that I will not go to work, but instead participate in acts of civil disobedience? And will I go even further if there is no relent by the government?

But, as I noted back a few pages, I don't think we will get to that point soon. I think that Americans are too fat, dumb and happy to do much of anything. So, if the Government can keep us asleep until they have us fully wrapped in their icy grip, by the time we get pissed enough to do something, we won't have the means.

 

[Tech_Esq]

And, since we are discussing it, let's not forget Thomas Jefferson's thoughts on the subject. I thought a more full quotation of Jefferson's blood of patriots quotation is in order.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

 

[Toro]

The right is pissed off because they see the country and its basic foundations being fundamentally changed. So, when you ask about the tipping point, many on the right are going through those very tough calculations right now. When will I be so enraged by the unlawful actions of the government that I will not go to work, but instead participate in acts of civil disobedience? And will I go even further if there is no relent by the government?

I have no reason to disbelieve you. The problem is that for many observers, the government curtailed all sorts of rights, particularly civil liberties, under Bush. Where was the political right on this? Where was all the talk of civil war when Bush was increasing wire-tapping or suspending jurisprudence or engaging in torture or increasing obscenity laws or banning gay marriage? To an observer, it seems that the political right - with exceptions - is very selective about what it deems to be government interference. If there are issues of morality and under the auspices of security to restrict civil rights and done so by a Republican, it seems conservatives have no problem with government interference. But if a Democrat wants to raise taxes, whoa! civil war!

Seems selectively hypocritical to me.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The right is pissed off because they see the country and its basic foundations being fundamentally changed. So, when you ask about the tipping point, many on the right are going through those very tough calculations right now. When will I be so enraged by the unlawful actions of the government that I will not go to work, but instead participate in acts of civil disobedience? And will I go even further if there is no relent by the government?

I have no reason to disbelieve you. The problem is that for many observers, the government curtailed all sorts of rights, particularly civil liberties, under Bush. Where was the political right on this? Where was all the talk of civil war when Bush was increasing wire-tapping or suspending jurisprudence or engaging in torture or increasing obscenity laws or banning gay marriage? To an observer, it seems that the political right - with exceptions - is very selective about what it deems to be government interference. If there are issues of morality and under the auspices of security to restrict civil rights and done so by a Republican, it seems conservatives have no problem with government interference. But if a Democrat wants to raise taxes, whoa! civil war!

Seems selectively hypocritical to me.

Bush was a strange creature to the right. For a good part of the time, I think the right was confused by Bush. Because of 9/11 and Bush's reaction to it, the right believe he was the right guy for the job. He did mostly what the right thought was proper. Concerning the Patriot act issues you mention, the right mostly thinks the left overplays that card. That although the potential for abuse may exist in some areas, the reality of abuse is slight if any. If real abuse had been shown, there is a certain part of the right that would have been right out there in front on crying foul. You'll have noticed these members of the right on issues such as opposing a national ID card etc. So, in general, the right thinks the left has blown those issues way out of proportion as a tool to beat up on Bush.

Without 9/11, I think Bush would have been exposed to the right long before he was. I think the right gave him the benefit of the doubt on a lot of issues. You tend to when it's a guy that purports to represent your side. But, I think by the end almost all on the right recognized that Bush was not one of them and did not represent the values they hold (except for the social conservatives maybe). I've never defended Bush on here and wouldn't start now. I had a long list of policies I disagreed with him on including military issues.

Having said that, the possible impingement of some civil liberties was done in reaction to a real threat that killed thousands. Here, we don't have a real threat. We're choosing to nationalize health care because it's been on the left's "to do" list since 1943. (I think that's the date of FDR's speech). We're going to institute a wide ranging control mechanism over energy usage based on bullshit science just so the government can control more aspects of the lives the people. By the way, so does health care. In doing both, the government will become the prime actor in a substantial percentage of the US economy that it was not already an prime actor in. By the time all is said and done, the US government will probably control or substantially influence more than half of the US economy.

Even worse than all of that, is the irreversibility of it. If a "government option" insurance plan is implemented, it will destroy, in relatively short order, all alternative competitors. So, should the Republicans get back in, they will not be able to say, "No more government insurance" because there wouldn't be company to provide health insurance. I'm sure that make folks on the left who love mama government happy, but it has the opposite effect on those on the right.

The point is, impingement on civil liberties is easy to end. Permanent changes in the way society operates are impossible to end. How would you end any social welfare program?

I think it is disingenuous to say that the folks on the political right are acting in response to an effort by the left to raise some taxes. That's kinda like saying we don't like floods because we might get damp basements. It doesn't quite cover it.

 

[Uknow_me72]

Civil War isn't brought on by rules changing or taxes, the general population wants a leader and understands the concept. The general population wants to be part of something bigger.

Civil War is brought out upon oppression and coercion. This isn't about the goverment this is about the people this time, but the government wants to make it about them.

The people have been used and put to the back burner too many times in order to make progress toward a global operating system. Technology moved faster then the social architects did.

Now the people are speaking up. What about me?

Don't miss the point here, look at the topics on the first few pages of every conspiracy site you don't even need to read them.

Pay attention the underground media is the voice of the people, the mainstream media is the voice of the oppressors.

The underground talks about freeing yourself, the mainstream talks about politics. Really guys don't ignore the obvious facts. You don't have to be weary like some of these others are but you do need to have your own mind.

It's not about the past its about the future. You are living now in the present, and you can not change the past, unless you re-write the history books again. If you are one to be alive in a day from now, 2 weeks, or 3 years from now that is the future and what do you want that future to be like? This is the direction that so many fail to look at but a small group of the people in control right now. That is why they are the masters.

You are living day by day and paycheck by paycheck thats as far as your vision reaches. You can give credit to the social architects and the rise of the baby boomers for that who just wanted anything better then the great depression and basically sold out the future. Good Job, how would you of thought this would be it, you couldn't really of known.... So take the easy street and have your grand children bare the burden. You have to make that choice now again.

They always say you can learn from the past, but I always see a few that confuse that with living in the past.


We do have a big issue on our hands and you are part of it. It is time that we the "sheeple" as Terral calls it make a stand. You need to let your voice be heard about your wants, needs and a future that benefits everyone.

Going out to the street with sign's to protest is useless. Do not do that, those rallies get turned in to extremism by the media that has an agenda aligning with the new operating system. It turns the people off that can not think for themselves. To be fair we don't want them and niether do they. So you need to consider survival of the fittest in some of these occasions.

Take a look at the animals around you, they do not need checks and balances to continue the survival of their species. Why do you? You don't pay attention and wake up. The day you were born you were lied to and tagged with a ssn. You never had a choice only the false illusion of choices generated by the machine while you were thrown into the ringer. I think I seen the same treatment to cattle...

So good luck guys with what ever you find serenity in. It is fine if you have made a conscious choice on sides you choose to lay your head with, atleast you know.


Side note: I am assuming that the media channels that are only covering the MJ funeral in preperation of something bigger. They are buying time and lost all credibilty, they have nothing else to show.