The Church And The Origins Of Western Civilization

PoliticalChic

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1. Seems that the mission of militant secularists is to banish religion from the public space. In order for this to happen, history has to be "sanitized," and even lied about. Tales have to be invented...such as "religion is responsible for more deaths than any other cause."

Unfortunately, there are the blind followers who simply accept such fabrications.

2. While it is simple to prove this false, you have to wonder why those hearing such a charge accept it. In my view, they have been prepared for that slander, and don't know that religion is responsible for the advancement of humanity, and the foundations of the Western Civilization.




3. How about the idea of equality?
As long ago as the Middle Ages, the church served as the incubator for many of our most cherished of modern ideas. Clement of Alexandria( c. 150 – c. 215), said this:
"... both slave and free must equally philosophize, whether male or female in sex . . . for the individual whose life is framed as ours is may philosophize without education. whether barbarian, Greek, slave, whether an old man, or a boy, or a woman. For moral self-restraint is common to all human beings who have chosen it. And we admit that the same nature exists in every race, and the same virtue." http://www.sjsu.edu/people/shantanu.phukan/courses/c15/s1/Christians_against_Roman_order.pdf

a. While this is a note about the early church, the Hebrew Bible began the idea, stating that all humans were created in God's image.

b. Note the demand that women be treated as equals: this view was not that of even the most educated citizens of the Roman Empire of the time, or, in fact, of any other great empire of the time.




4. How about the church's movement against slavery?
The same Clement of Alexandria reminded that, since God made every human being "in his image, I would ask you, does it not seem to you monstrous that you human beings who are God's own handiwork-should be subjected to another master, and, even worse, serve a tyrant instead of God, the true king?"
Ibid.


5. Without this emphasis on the moral equality of all people there could not have been the rise of the Western legal tradition, its distinctive feature of equality before the law. Yes, this view took centuries before it was generally recognized, before it was made self-evident that all men were created equal....1776 before it could be so written and not laughed at.

It required a religious culture steeped in the belief that all of mankind was "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

This could not have occurred without religion.
"Christianity on Trial," Carroll and Shiflett




6. ". The Bible is the wisdom of the West. It is from the precepts of the Bible that the legal systems of the West have been developed-systems, worked out over millennia, for dealing with inequality, with injustice, with greed, reducible t that which Christians call the Golden Rule, and the Jews had propounded as “That which is hateful to you, don not do to your neighbor.”

It is these rules and laws which form a framework which allows the individual foreknowledge of that which is permitted and that which is forbidden."
David Mamet, "The Secret Knowledge."
 
1. Seems that the mission of militant secularists is to banish religion from the public space. In order for this to happen, history has to be "sanitized," and even lied about. Tales have to be invented...such as "religion is responsible for more deaths than any other cause."

Unfortunately, there are the blind followers who simply accept such fabrications.

2. While it is simple to prove this false, you have to wonder why those hearing such a charge accept it. In my view, they have been prepared for that slander, and don't know that religion is responsible for the advancement of humanity, and the foundations of the Western Civilization.




3. How about the idea of equality?
As long ago as the Middle Ages, the church served as the incubator for many of our most cherished of modern ideas. Clement of Alexandria( c. 150 – c. 215), said this:
"... both slave and free must equally philosophize, whether male or female in sex . . . for the individual whose life is framed as ours is may philosophize without education. whether barbarian, Greek, slave, whether an old man, or a boy, or a woman. For moral self-restraint is common to all human beings who have chosen it. And we admit that the same nature exists in every race, and the same virtue." http://www.sjsu.edu/people/shantanu.phukan/courses/c15/s1/Christians_against_Roman_order.pdf

a. While this is a note about the early church, the Hebrew Bible began the idea, stating that all humans were created in God's image.

b. Note the demand that women be treated as equals: this view was not that of even the most educated citizens of the Roman Empire of the time, or, in fact, of any other great empire of the time.




4. How about the church's movement against slavery?
The same Clement of Alexandria reminded that, since God made every human being "in his image, I would ask you, does it not seem to you monstrous that you human beings who are God's own handiwork-should be subjected to another master, and, even worse, serve a tyrant instead of God, the true king?"
Ibid.


5. Without this emphasis on the moral equality of all people there could not have been the rise of the Western legal tradition, its distinctive feature of equality before the law. Yes, this view took centuries before it was generally recognized, before it was made self-evident that all men were created equal....1776 before it could be so written and not laughed at.

It required a religious culture steeped in the belief that all of mankind was "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

This could not have occurred without religion.
"Christianity on Trial," Carroll and Shiflett




6. ". The Bible is the wisdom of the West. It is from the precepts of the Bible that the legal systems of the West have been developed-systems, worked out over millennia, for dealing with inequality, with injustice, with greed, reducible t that which Christians call the Golden Rule, and the Jews had propounded as “That which is hateful to you, don not do to your neighbor.”

It is these rules and laws which form a framework which allows the individual foreknowledge of that which is permitted and that which is forbidden."
David Mamet, "The Secret Knowledge."
It's worse than sanitation or lies. History has to be forgotten. Easy to do when the majority have no clue about what happened last week.
 
Ah, another Bizarro Chick thread.

1337586-ssh0001.jpg


Here's the reality. Western Civilization was doing just fine until Christianity came along. The Roman Empire was actually kind of awesome for its time in terms of technology and political development.

Then Christianity brought the Dark Ages, or as I like to call them, the First Faith Based Initiative. Books were burned, science rejected, and we had really 1000 years of not much scientific progress.

Religion has never done a good thing in the whole of human history, not even by accident.
 
Western civilization is built upon the foundations of Judeo-Christian religion and secular Greco-Roman culture. I have no desire to live in the church of Constantine or in the era of 325 CE. Change occurs.
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.
 
Ah, another Bizarro Chick thread.

1337586-ssh0001.jpg


Here's the reality. Western Civilization was doing just fine until Christianity came along. The Roman Empire was actually kind of awesome for its time in terms of technology and political development.

Then Christianity brought the Dark Ages, or as I like to call them, the First Faith Based Initiative. Books were burned, science rejected, and we had really 1000 years of not much scientific progress.

Religion has never done a good thing in the whole of human history, not even by accident.



Now....c'mon....that's an old pic of me!



"The Roman Empire was actually kind of awesome for its time in terms of technology and political development."

How about it's humanity?




7. Be clear, this is not a claim that Christians were the first, or the only one to insist on a universalist view, the intrinsic value of each human being.


"It is not that Christian ethics were entirely original; they were substantially Jewish in derivation, although with distinctive accents such as the command to love one's enemies. And it is possible to exaggerate the moral differences between pagans and Christians; leading pagan citizens were capable of great acts of giving, if not often to the direct benefit of the poor, then at least to the local community and to their gods. Much of Christian ethics can be found articulated by pagan philosophers."

There were Stoics, such as Marcus Aurelius, who also saw all people as equals.
"Christianity on Trial," Carroll and Shiflett, p. 9


a. "The rise of Christianity altered profoundly the moral texture of the late Roman world. Yet in moral matters the Christian leaders made almost no innovations. What they did was more crucial. They created a new group, whose exceptional emphasis on solidarity in the face of its own inner tensions ensured that its members would practice what pagan and Jewish moralists had already begun to preach."
Peter Brown, "Late Antiquity," p. 24.




8. Jews of the ancient world put unusual value on human life:

"Hebrew tradition sometimes reveals a sense of universalism where one might least expect it. Even God's election of Abraham and his progeny includes the promise of a blessing to extend through them to all people, for that famous passage concludes with the words, 'in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
Elaine Pagels, "The Origin of Satan,"p. 37.


a. Early on, Judaism looked like it would become a world-wide religion, based on impressive ethics and its basis, monotheism. But there were obstacles too difficult for many pagans, not the least of which was circumcision.
 
Christianity played a role in the early development of many aspects of Western Civilization, including science. Now it needs to get out of the way and stop holding us back.
 
Christianity played a role in the early development of many aspects of Western Civilization, including science. Now it needs to get out of the way and stop holding us back.



As you have not supplied any examples of "holding us back," the take away from your post is "I hate religion."

Seems to eat you up.

But....it's a free country...until Liberals have control.
 
[

"The Roman Empire was actually kind of awesome for its time in terms of technology and political development."

How about it's humanity?

How about it? Romans actually had a pretty sensible series of laws. They didn't stone their wives for not being virgins on their wedding nights, they didn't stone rape victims in the city for not crying out, they didn't stone people for being gay or working on the Sabbath or half the other barbaric shit the bible calls for.



[
7. Be clear, this is not a claim that Christians were the first, or the only one to insist on a universalist view, the intrinsic value of each human being.

Yet Christianity continued to support slavery all the way up until 1865.


[
a. Early on, Judaism looked like it would become a world-wide religion, based on impressive ethics and its basis, monotheism. But there were obstacles too difficult for many pagans, not the least of which was circumcision.

Um, no, it really didn't. It was just a strange religion from the East. The real problem Judiasm had was that they weren't terribly interested in converting the believers of other Sky PIxies to believe in their Sky Pixie. Unlike the Christians, who were into that... whether you wanted to or not.
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.

Well, it would be nice if you wrote in a coherent way instead of posting OCD numbered points that are full of logical fallacies.
 
Christianity played a role in the early development of many aspects of Western Civilization, including science. Now it needs to get out of the way and stop holding us back.



As you have not supplied any examples of "holding us back," the take away from your post is "I hate religion."

Seems to eat you up.

But....it's a free country...until Liberals have control.

Hmm. How has religion held us back?

Well.

There was their oppression of astronomers who dared say the Earth went around the sun. Galileo was tortured into recanting and Bruno was burned at the stake.

There was the Church calling vaccination against smallpox "the Devil's Needle".

And today we have the Churches oppossing the teaching of evolution in the schools because it goes against their fairy stories.
 
[

"The Roman Empire was actually kind of awesome for its time in terms of technology and political development."

How about it's humanity?

How about it? Romans actually had a pretty sensible series of laws. They didn't stone their wives for not being virgins on their wedding nights, they didn't stone rape victims in the city for not crying out, they didn't stone people for being gay or working on the Sabbath or half the other barbaric shit the bible calls for.



[
7. Be clear, this is not a claim that Christians were the first, or the only one to insist on a universalist view, the intrinsic value of each human being.

Yet Christianity continued to support slavery all the way up until 1865.


[
a. Early on, Judaism looked like it would become a world-wide religion, based on impressive ethics and its basis, monotheism. But there were obstacles too difficult for many pagans, not the least of which was circumcision.

Um, no, it really didn't. It was just a strange religion from the East. The real problem Judiasm had was that they weren't terribly interested in converting the believers of other Sky PIxies to believe in their Sky Pixie. Unlike the Christians, who were into that... whether you wanted to or not.






"Romans actually had a pretty sensible series of laws."
Where do you get your history.....comic books?

Theodosius the Great, was Roman Emperor from 379 to 395. Theodosius was the last emperor to rule over both the eastern and the western halves of the Roman Empire."
Theodosius I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3." In 390 the population of Thessalonica rioted in complaint against the presence of the local Gothic garrison. The garrison commander was killed in the violence, soTheodosius ordered the Goths to kill all the spectators in the circus as retaliation; Theodoret, a contemporary witness to these events, reports:

"... the anger of the Emperor rose to the highest pitch, and he gratified his vindictive desire for vengeance by unsheathing the sword most unjustly and tyrannically against all, slaying the innocent and guilty alike. It is said seven thousand perishedwithout any forms of law, and without even having judicial sentence passed upon them; but that, like ears of wheat in the time of harvest, they were alike cut down."
Ibid.
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.

Well, it would be nice if you wrote in a coherent way instead of posting OCD numbered points that are full of logical fallacies.



The fallacy is here: "....points that are full of logical fallacies."
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.
I am certain that both you and I are aware that the entirety of your discussion is not discussion at all, but cutting and pasting "quotes".

Your silly "quotes" are the definition of tired cliches.
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.
I am certain that both you and I are aware that the entirety of your discussion is not discussion at all, but cutting and pasting "quotes".

Your silly "quotes" are the definition of tired cliches.




So cute...I refer to 'cliches' and you pick right up on that and repeat it.
So....I do teach you.



"...not discussion at all, but cutting and pasting "quotes".(sic...period belongs inside the quotation marks.)

So....you are unable to read?

That must be why you are never able to comment on the specifics that I post....much less the unassailable conclusions.
 
Oh gawd.

Yet another thread of pc's goofy cut and paste "quotes", quote-mined from Harun Yahya.



I am certain that you and I both fervently hope for the day when you develop the ability to actually discuss the material that I post, and that you no longer have to use the same tired cliches over and over.

Best of luck.
I am certain that both you and I are aware that the entirety of your discussion is not discussion at all, but cutting and pasting "quotes".

Your silly "quotes" are the definition of tired cliches.




So cute...I refer to 'cliches' and you pick right up on that and repeat it.
So....I do teach you.



"...not discussion at all, but cutting and pasting "quotes".(sic...period belongs inside the quotation marks.)

So....you are unable to read?

That must be why you are never able to comment on the specifics that I post....much less the unassailable conclusions.
If you were honest, (not that I'm accusing you of being honest), you would acknowledge that the specifics you post are nothing more specific than silly "quotes" you quote-mine from Harun Yahya.

So.... We can agree you're incapable of actually composing a coherent argument.
 
Last edited:
[

"Romans actually had a pretty sensible series of laws."
Where do you get your history.....comic books?

Theodosius the Great, was Roman Emperor from 379 to 395. Theodosius was the last emperor to rule over both the eastern and the western halves of the Roman Empire."
Theodosius I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3." In 390 the population of Thessalonica rioted in complaint against the presence of the local Gothic garrison. The garrison commander was killed in the violence, soTheodosius ordered the Goths to kill all the spectators in the circus as retaliation; Theodoret, a contemporary witness to these events, reports:

"... the anger of the Emperor rose to the highest pitch, and he gratified his vindictive desire for vengeance by unsheathing the sword most unjustly and tyrannically against all, slaying the innocent and guilty alike. It is said seven thousand perishedwithout any forms of law, and without even having judicial sentence passed upon them; but that, like ears of wheat in the time of harvest, they were alike cut down."
Ibid.

Aren't you kind of defeating your own argument here? Theodosius was one of the Christian Emperors after Constantine the Great (notice how all these guys call themselves "The Great"?) made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.

Not surprisingly, Rome rapidly descended into barbarism after the Christians took over.
 
.

The Church And The Origins Of Western Civilization


1. Seems that the mission of militant secularists is to banish religion from the public space.


" The Church
"


not, THE CHURCH(ES), so you feel it a personal reprimand of your specific church -

and by ignoring all the others makes your argument any more worthy than yours against the secularists for your own disdain and ignorance being the same ... got it.

secularism and general religiosity are not incongruous.

.
 

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