The Christian Tithe ripoff.

[Mickiel]

OK so you don't like tithing then don't. However, the work of the Church has to be funded by the members in some way. There are expenses that need to paid, overhead, the cost to heat a building, supplies, etc. So, church members need to contribute regularly if they want a thriving church.
However, the govt steals a crap ton of money which supposedly is redistributed to the poor so just by paying taxes, you are paying for that as well. So, we can argue the 10% or not.

If you and I were allowed to look at the books of, lets say 20 churches in your area, and we could compare their accounts on their bills verses the Pastors salary and spending; would he receive more than the combined expenses of the churches needs? How much money gets spent on the needs of the members and the people living in the surrounding areas?

You claim " The work of the church has to be funded." What is the work of the church?

 

[Mickiel]

[QUOTE="Marion Morrison, post:


You won't understand because you don't want to understand. The tithe is 10% of what you bring in, be it harvest, or money.[/QUOTE]


The Tithe is an old testament outlawed law that was used to intimidate Israel into giving, because they did not like to give. Jesus ended it and issued a new way of giving, that was free from any law or percentages.

 

[Mickiel]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

 

[hadit]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

 

[Mickiel]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

 

[hadit]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

 

[Mickiel]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

 

[hadit]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

 

[Mickiel]

Hey how big are your church offering plates? I have seen some churches use popcorn buckets.

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

 

[hadit]

This is the 21st century. A lot of giving is done online.

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

 

[Mickiel]

A lot of lying and manipulation is done online. When churches use God to get money, its a sin; when they get money to help the people and to teach God, it is not a sin. Prosperity ministries are an example of believers using God to enrich themselves. Its called greed and coveting.

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

 

[hadit]

That has nothing to do with the size of the offering plates.

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

 

[Mickiel]

Its a physical manipulation placed on the people. The size of the bucket is a manipulation to give more in order to fill it up.

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

 

[hadit]

And like I said, a lot of churches are doing online giving.

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

 

[Mickiel]

Giving is not wrong, its just not a command; its carries no penalty if one chooses not to; it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation; it is not a test of faith; its not a spiritual measuring tape; its just a desire of the heart. And I think a good desire.

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

 

[hadit]

It does test your faith, however, and you should allow people to give whether they consider it a command or not. They do not need you hectoring them about it.

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

What do you know of what God asks of others? Sacrificial giving teaches generosity, not selfishness.

 

[Mickiel]

It requires no faith to give money to anything.

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

What do you know of what God asks of others? Sacrificial giving teaches generosity, not selfishness.

Why would God ask you for money that you don't have? I would not even do that to people. You can't even give me scriptures that support your claims. How can you believe things and not show us why in scripture?

 

[hadit]

Actually, it does, unless you give so little it doesn't matter.

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

What do you know of what God asks of others? Sacrificial giving teaches generosity, not selfishness.

Why would God ask you for money that you don't have? I would not even do that to people. You can't even give me scriptures that support your claims. How can you believe things and not show us why in scripture?

Good will sometimes ask for you to give what you don't think you have or can afford to demonstrate His ability to provide. You're thinking solely in your human mind.

Remember, you have been saying this whole time that giving is to be done voluntarily, not according to formula. Now, you do also remember how Jesus praised the widow who gave all she had left in the world, right? And you remember the rich man that Jesus told to sell everything he had and give it all to the poor?

So we know what Jesus thought about giving. It takes faith to give sacrificially.

Note that I'm not saying that all Christians are commanded to give all they have. They're not, but they are commanded to be generous.

 

[Mickiel]

Explain to me how it requires faith to give money. Faith in who? If you are suggesting God, show me three scriptures that state it requires faith in God to give money.

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

What do you know of what God asks of others? Sacrificial giving teaches generosity, not selfishness.

Why would God ask you for money that you don't have? I would not even do that to people. You can't even give me scriptures that support your claims. How can you believe things and not show us why in scripture?

Good will sometimes ask for you to give what you don't think you have or can afford to demonstrate His ability to provide. You're thinking solely in your human mind.

Remember, you have been saying this whole time that giving is to be done voluntarily, not according to formula. Now, you do also remember how Jesus praised the widow who gave all she had left in the world, right? And you remember the rich man that Jesus told to sell everything he had and give it all to the poor?

So we know what Jesus thought about giving. It takes faith to give sacrificially.

Note that I'm not saying that all Christians are commanded to give all they have. They're not, but they are commanded to be generous.

If you will this time, can you give us the scriptures where God commands anyone to be generous? I would like to see that.

 

[hadit]

It requires faith when you are prompted to give more than you can afford. IOW, sacrificially.

I asked for three scriptures that claim it requires faith to give money, I guess you cannot give them. What has faith to do with giving when you make bad decisions with your money. Who taught you to do that and involve God or any other spiritual reasons to hurt your bank account like that? God is not stupid or demanding of any money from believers.

What do you know of what God asks of others? Sacrificial giving teaches generosity, not selfishness.

Why would God ask you for money that you don't have? I would not even do that to people. You can't even give me scriptures that support your claims. How can you believe things and not show us why in scripture?

Good will sometimes ask for you to give what you don't think you have or can afford to demonstrate His ability to provide. You're thinking solely in your human mind.

Remember, you have been saying this whole time that giving is to be done voluntarily, not according to formula. Now, you do also remember how Jesus praised the widow who gave all she had left in the world, right? And you remember the rich man that Jesus told to sell everything he had and give it all to the poor?

So we know what Jesus thought about giving. It takes faith to give sacrificially.

Note that I'm not saying that all Christians are commanded to give all they have. They're not, but they are commanded to be generous.

If you will this time, can you give us the scriptures where God commands anyone to be generous? I would like to see that.

Deuteronomy 15:10
Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

Psalm 37:21
The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously;

Psalm 112:5
Good will come to those who are generous and lend freely, who conduct their affairs with justice;

Proverbs 11:25
A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.

Proverbs 22:9
The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.

Luke 11:41
But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.

Romans 12:8
if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

2 Corinthians 9:6
Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

1 Timothy 6:18
Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.

I'm sure you can quibble and say they're not absolute commandments, but the idea is clear. God loves generosity, and the fact that you claimed ignorance about what the Bible has to say on the subject tells me that you really don't know that much about it at all.