The Christian Tithe ripoff.

[Clement]

I am ignorant of the details of tithing and I appreciate the education. It helps me understand a little better what motivated my Dad.

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

I am ignorant of the details of tithing and I appreciate the education. It helps me understand a little better what motivated my Dad.

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

 

[Mickiel]

I am ignorant of the details of tithing and I appreciate the education. It helps me understand a little better what motivated my Dad.

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

I am ignorant of the details of tithing and I appreciate the education. It helps me understand a little better what motivated my Dad.

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

 

[Clement]

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

You aren't going to get an education from this guy, I don't think he knows any ministers.

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

 

[Mickiel]

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh I know plenty of them; but the bible itself can educate a reader on false ministers; you don't have to know them, you can just smell them ; greed and deception smells the same.

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

 

[Clement]

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

You know, I have never met anybody who comes to church who doesn't expect the heat and air conditioning to be working, for the landscaping to be done and the food pantry to be full. Maybe you think that just happens by itself, or that God alone does it in the middle of he night?

So the Bible educates you on false ministers, does it? Does it also educate you on bearing false witness?

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

 

[Mickiel]

Oh the bible is not against giving , but it is against giving " under compulsion" ; or making members think they must give or they get cursed or will not be blessed. And I don't think God is in charge of any of those churches you mentioned in your example.

One of us is bearing false witness for sure. I love to know when I am wrong, but Christians think they are right all the time.

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

 

[Clement]

Well, you're wrong. For every Creflo Dollar in the world there are millions of men engaged in sincere ministry for the cause of Christ who feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, take care of the widow and orphan, and visit the sick and imprisoned, and they and their flocks are the ones who suffer because of guys like Creflo and the slander of people like you. They work for nothing, run their ministries on pennies, and work day jobs for the cause of Christ. Shame on you.

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

 

[Mickiel]

Well Jesus himself taught that HIS church would do things he is against ; in Rev. 2: 4, in Rev. 2:15 Jesus HATED the things his church was doing; in 2:20 he has more against HIS churches , in Rev. 3: 14-22 Jesus gives a description of the final stage of his church, its an obvious prosperity church phase ;notice verse 17,they like being rich and increased with goods , they are described by Jesus as being wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked! In verse 20 Jesus is standing at their door and knocking , obviously meaning he is on the " Outside of HIS church!" This is Jesus description of his church in the last days. I don't care what any of you Christians say, I go by what Christ has said. Period!

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

 

[MaryL]

Religion is a money making machine , milking its members like cows. Using its sentimental powers to empty the wallets and purses of its people. The Christian tithe is of interest , because although tithing is biblical , its biblical meaning and history is being hid by Christian ministers. Because they want that money. The tithe belonged to ancient Israel ,it was essentially their income tax. But the real biblical tithe was the product of land NOT money! The tithe in Malachi 3 is soley about land , never money! In fact , the New Testament church never tithed. Tithing , in the real bible, was an old covenant thing.

So two rip offs right off, is the tithe was continued on into this age by church leaders , not by the New Testament church, but new church leaders greed. And it was completely changed from land to money. There is absolutely no biblical evidence that the New Testament church ever tithed , or that it was ever money. In fact the tithe did not become widespread in Christianity until the eight century. For 700 years after Christ , it was rarely even mentioned. Charting the history of Christian tithing is a fascinating story of incredible bible twisting and ripping off people. And I want to go into the burden it has put on the poor.

Well christians just want a tidy profit. And christians are being almost vilified here. Now you take a religion, any religion...say islam. Crash planes into Manhattan. Chainsaw people in half and behead people, that is ok, SHHH! Don't wanta back lash, that would be WRONG. Can't have that, can we?

 

[Mickiel]

Religion is a money making machine , milking its members like cows. Using its sentimental powers to empty the wallets and purses of its people. The Christian tithe is of interest , because although tithing is biblical , its biblical meaning and history is being hid by Christian ministers. Because they want that money. The tithe belonged to ancient Israel ,it was essentially their income tax. But the real biblical tithe was the product of land NOT money! The tithe in Malachi 3 is soley about land , never money! In fact , the New Testament church never tithed. Tithing , in the real bible, was an old covenant thing.

So two rip offs right off, is the tithe was continued on into this age by church leaders , not by the New Testament church, but new church leaders greed. And it was completely changed from land to money. There is absolutely no biblical evidence that the New Testament church ever tithed , or that it was ever money. In fact the tithe did not become widespread in Christianity until the eight century. For 700 years after Christ , it was rarely even mentioned. Charting the history of Christian tithing is a fascinating story of incredible bible twisting and ripping off people. And I want to go into the burden it has put on the poor.

Well christians just want a tidy profit. And christians are being almost vilified here. Now you take a religion, any religion...say islam. Crash planes into Manhattan. Chainsaw people in half and behead people, that is ok, SHHH! Don't wanta back lash, that would be WRONG. Can't have that, can we?

No matter what Islamic terrorist have done , nothing in human life could be worse than the Christian teaching of eternal hell punishing ; nothing! The human is punished alive for 9 thousand years , plus another 9 million years , plus another 9 billion years , plus another 9 trillion more years, and then on into infinity. Its truly insane!

 

[Clement]

Well, I don't care about what YOU say, I go by what Christ said, and the ministers I know who are charitable to the poor are not the church of Laodicea.

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

 

[Mickiel]

Well Jesus taught that his final church era or stage will be Laodicean , a prosperity ministry; if a believer views this present life as being in the last days, then all of Jesus churches are Laodicean in nature. Period! After Laodicea comes the end; then Jesus returns. But God will call another group of believers called the first fruits , they will be chosen by God and led by the Holy Spirit; no ministers , no leaders , they will be taught and led by the Spirit. There is no church like that now on earth.

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

What stands out to me is Jesus saying that he came to " Save the WORLD!" A stunning thing to teach , its universalism down pact! Its also WHY the Father sent Jesus to earth; 1 John 4:14," And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!" Not just believers or those who accept him, but the WORLD means everyone!

Praise God for his awesome plan.

 

[MarathonMike]

I have no idea what you two are arguing about. The OP I believe is correct in calling out the Christian practice of coerced tithing from those who believe their salvation depends on it. That is COMPLETELY different from passing around an offering plate or asking support for some church project or to help a needy person that is part of the congregation.

 

[Clement]

You are really confused. I was just reading your thread where you claim that there is such a thing as universal salvation, then you turn around and from the other side of your mouth you condemn the Church.

Frankly, the more I read of you the more I think that you wish you were God.

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

What stands out to me is Jesus saying that he came to " Save the WORLD!" A stunning thing to teach , its universalism down pact! Its also WHY the Father sent Jesus to earth; 1 John 4:14," And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!" Not just believers or those who accept him, but the WORLD means everyone!

Praise God for his awesome plan.

He'll save the world if they'll have it. A lot of them won't have it, and he knew it.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

“So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

 

[Mickiel]

I have no idea what you two are arguing about. The OP I believe is correct in calling out the Christian practice of coerced tithing from those who believe their salvation depends on it. That is COMPLETELY different from passing around an offering plate or asking support for some church project or to help a needy person that is part of the congregation.

Well I agree ;I have seen some churches use big popcorn buckets instead of plates to haul in the plunder. Along with this doctrine of " Plant a seed of money and reap a harvest of blessings from God", essentially buying the blessings.

 

[chikenwing]

I am ignorant of the details of tithing and I appreciate the education. It helps me understand a little better what motivated my Dad.

Faith was his motivator.

 

[Mickiel]

I challenge you to produce me saying that there is no such thing as universal salvation ; I have never said that in my life. I see no reason for you to lie on me. Universal salvation is the true gospel. Its the desire of God.

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

What stands out to me is Jesus saying that he came to " Save the WORLD!" A stunning thing to teach , its universalism down pact! Its also WHY the Father sent Jesus to earth; 1 John 4:14," And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!" Not just believers or those who accept him, but the WORLD means everyone!

Praise God for his awesome plan.

He'll save the world if they'll have it. A lot of them won't have it, and he knew it.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

“So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

You have listed seven verses ,i'll put these 100 against them any day;
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

 

[Clement]

You have to accept it. I can write you a check for a million dollars but it's worthless until you take it and cash it.

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

What stands out to me is Jesus saying that he came to " Save the WORLD!" A stunning thing to teach , its universalism down pact! Its also WHY the Father sent Jesus to earth; 1 John 4:14," And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!" Not just believers or those who accept him, but the WORLD means everyone!

Praise God for his awesome plan.

He'll save the world if they'll have it. A lot of them won't have it, and he knew it.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

“So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

You have listed seven verses ,i'll put these 100 against them any day;
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

No, you don't get to do that. I am not going to read some propagandists web page, you have to argue the point for yourself and explain it yourself.

 

[Papageorgio]

Why do people feel the need to but tinto others business.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus did not teach that; in John 12:47 Jesus taught - " If anyone hears my words and does not believe them , I judge him not. For I came NOT to judge the world , but to SAVE the WORLD!" Humans do not have to accept Christ on their own , they must be drawn by God, John 6:44;I totally disagree with Christianity on this.

Go to the next verse:

"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." - John 12:48 ESV.

What stands out to me is Jesus saying that he came to " Save the WORLD!" A stunning thing to teach , its universalism down pact! Its also WHY the Father sent Jesus to earth; 1 John 4:14," And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!" Not just believers or those who accept him, but the WORLD means everyone!

Praise God for his awesome plan.

He'll save the world if they'll have it. A lot of them won't have it, and he knew it.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

“So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

You have listed seven verses ,i'll put these 100 against them any day;
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

No, you don't get to do that. I am not going to read some propagandists web page, you have to argue the point for yourself and explain it yourself.

I'll argue it as I please; how about 600 more salvation of all verses ;
600+ Scriptures Confirming Universal Salvation