The Christian Foundation of the United States:

[bodecea]

It's dishonest to pretend they were talking about some OTHER, non-Christian, God.

Then, that begs the question, why didn't they just say God....they said "their Creator"....you'd think they'd want to at least save a little ink.

 

[AllieBaba]

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
Patrick Henry

 

[AllieBaba]

It's dishonest to pretend they were talking about some OTHER, non-Christian, God.

Then, that begs the question, why didn't they just say God....they said "their Creator"....you'd think they'd want to at least save a little ink.

Yes, well, you can't read their minds. Remember, people spoke and wrote differently then.

You're such a learned historian, I'm sure you knew that already tho.

 

[AllieBaba]

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry

 

[AllieBaba]

Not a founding father, but interesting:

"
"We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us."
Abraham Lincoln's 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation

 

[AllieBaba]

Abraham Lincoln apparently thought we were founded on Christian tenets, as did most of the founding fathers.

But some internet trolls say no way.

Hmmm...Lincoln, Henry, Franklin, Adams, Jefferson....

Or Bod and Lizzie and Liarwinger.

Let's see...who has the most credibility here?

 

[AllieBaba]

"The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Where, some say, is the king of America? I'll tell you, friend, He reigns above." Thomas Paine

 

[AllieBaba]

"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary."
Daniel Webster

 

[bodecea]

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
Patrick Henry

Ah, good person to quote....you know he HATED The Constitution and was very much NOT a friend to Jefferson or Madison....you know, the Father of the Constitution ....

 

[AllieBaba]

That has nothing to do with anything. We're discussing the foundation of the country, remember?

 

[AllieBaba]

Was Patrick Henry a founding father?

Why yes, yes he was.

Did he say it was based on Christian principles?

Yup. Sure did. Along with all the other founding fathers.

Unless you want to deny it?

 

[k2skier]

Oh, I see. The FF were lying, or mistaken, when they said they were structuring the country on Christian values.

Thanks for setting us, and the world, straight, Bod. You're great!

If you look to the writing of our Founders, they say a little of everything...you quote Jefferson....ok, Jefferson ALSO said our government was specifically designes to have a separation between church and state.

You quote Franklin...he wasn't even Christian.

You've quoted John Q. Adams....he also said our nation was NOT founded on Christian principles.

Seems to me, we have Founders that pandered in their quotes depending on who they talked to....just like today.

I look to the Product...the Constitution. Where are the Christian tenets in the Framework of our government? They...are...not...there, Allie.

Oh, so your entire argument is that if it's not in the Constitution, it didn't affect the formation of the country.

Ok.


And I never said that all the founders were Christian. That wasn't the claim. Nor did I deny the exclusion of any particular religion from our LAWS.

The down and dirty remains the same. The country was founded on Christian principles. ACCORDING TO THE FF.

Now you want to say "Yeah, they did say that but they didn't really mean it."

That's neither here nor there. We don't know what they THOUGHT. We can only go by what they SAID and wrote. And what they said and wrote was that they FOUNDED this country upon Christian principles.

Isn't that the Constitution, what they wrote? Hmm.....

 

[AllieBaba]

There is more to the founding of this country than the Constitution.
The constitution provides the framework.

But when we talk of founding the country, we talk about the values that led to the development of the Constitution and the ideas that were bounced around prior to the Declaration.

The founding fathers have said what they founded the country upon. Do you want to deny them? To say they didn't? To say they meant something other than what they said? To claim you know better?

 

[k2skier]

"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary."
Daniel Webster

Brainwashed beyond hope of seeing anything other than the Dogma you've been spoon fed since birth. I don't mean that in a bad way, it has happened to most of us on this planet. Check out my link, there are many many different religions; who picked the "right" one?

Have a great life, sincerely. But posting here, you know all you're doing is setting your self up for a fight; right?

You really need to check out religioustolerance.org and so does everyone else.

About this web site

 

[Gadawg73]

That's neither here nor there. Whether they were correct or not in their pursuit of their religion, the fact remains...

they structured it upon Chrsitian tenets.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. "

They structured what?
Not the government.
Not the laws.
Everyone here has stated that the social mores of the society were Christian in religion.
IN RELIGION.
But in practice they came up short. The Founders of this nation were not Christ like men.
If they would have been you would have had tea at three today and the Crown would be who you answer to.

 

[lizzie]

You're a fucking idiot.

This, peeps, is the definition of "willful ignorance."

Wow, when you can't refute, insult.

Where in the founding documents is Christianity or Jesus mentioned by name? Not God- as we are all aware that God has many forms and faces. Where is your evidence of Christianity the doctrine and practice, or Jesus, the founder of the religion, in the founding documents of our country?

 

[Montrovant]

Perhaps the problem here is an unwillingness to share credit.

Did Christianity and Christian principles play a part in the founding of the country? I find it hard to believe otherwise, considering the prevalence of that religion.

Were Christian principles the only thing the country was founded on? It would certainly seem not.

Were all the founders united in their beliefs? Of course not.

Were all the founders Christians? Based on various writings, again, not.

So what we have are men influenced by different religious and philosophical beliefs. Eventually they took what they hoped were the best of those beliefs and formed the Constitution. To say Christianity had no influence on our founding seems ridiculous; to imply that Christianity was the only influence on our founding seems equally ridiculous.

And really, what's the point in the end? Why does it matter so much where the ideas originated, if they are good ideas?

 

[bodecea]

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
Patrick Henry

It's dishonest to pretend they were talking about some OTHER, non-Christian, God.

Then, that begs the question, why didn't they just say God....they said "their Creator"....you'd think they'd want to at least save a little ink.

Yes, well, you can't read their minds. Remember, people spoke and wrote differently then.

Aren't you the one always telling us how we think?

And you're trying to tell us that they used the word Creator for God commonly back then?

You're such a learned historian, I'm sure you knew that already tho.

Why there you are again....telling us how I think.

 

[bodecea]

"The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Where, some say, is the king of America? I'll tell you, friend, He reigns above." Thomas Paine

Thomas Paine?

The atheist??????

 

[bodecea]

That has nothing to do with anything. We're discussing the foundation of the country, remember?

Then why did YOU quote him?

Twice already.