The Choice of Homosexuality - Epilogue

[Indiana Oracle]

The original thread appears to have stopped. Feel it is important for folks to see this entry on the topic.

Natural or Choice?
Like many of the folks on this string, I would imagine they have known more than one gay person well enough to at least call him an acquaintance. I had two real friends who were gay and have been around gays whenever I lived in a large city. I only asked two things: leave me out of it and don't suck tongues in public (I meant that as a joke and they took it that way).

I am not sure a strong weight can be assigned to choice here. I will provide only one example that begs the question. If any of you saw Idol this week and the rendition of "Tracks of My Tears", by Adam Lambert, you may see what I mean.

It was one of the most memorable renditions of that song I have ever heard. I was a musician in a former life and know good when I hear it. His performance brought tears to my eyes and seemed to have the same effect on Smoky.

The probability of his being able to hit those fals the way he did were he not different from most men is nearly zero. Observing him, he may make use of it, but does not choose to have a feminine manner about him. And you can see in the wordliness he shows that this is not a new factor in his life.

So, I may be putting too fine a point on this, but every gay man I have met with the exception of one, could only hope to hide who he is. In that he made a choice.

My views on gay rights from an earlier post, however, stand.

 

[elvis]

The original thread appears to have stopped. Feel it is important for folks to see this entry on the topic.

Natural or Choice?
Like many of the folks on this string, I would imagine they have known more than one gay person well enough to at least call him an acquaintance. I had two real friends who were gay and have been around gays whenever I lived in a large city. I only asked two things: leave me out of it and don't suck tongues in public (I meant that as a joke and they took it that way).

I am not sure a strong weight can be assigned to choice here. I will provide only one example that begs the question. If any of you saw Idol this week and the rendition of "Tracks of My Tears", by Adam Lambert, you may see what I mean.

It was one of the most memorable renditions of that song I have ever heard. I was a musician in a former life and know good when I hear it. His performance brought tears to my eyes and seemed to have the same effect on Smoky.

The probability of his being able to hit those fals the way he did were he not different from most men is nearly zero. Observing him, he may make use of it, but does not choose to have a feminine manner about him. And you can see in the wordliness he shows that this is not a new factor in his life.

So, I may be putting too fine a point on this, but every gay man I have met with the exception of one, could only hope to hide who he is. In that he made a choice.

My views on gay rights from an earlier post, however, stand.

I am not sure what your point of view is on singers with high voices. I am pretty sure Frankie Valli is not gay.
Scientists have not been able to prove one way or the other if homosexuality is biological.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

did you see idol this week?

 

[elvis]

did you see idol this week?

Never seen it.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Ok. No problem. My point is only that it has never been clear to me that much about homosexuality, except hiding it, has to do with choice. The program was just what I saw as a good illustration.

 

[Ravi]

Only gays watch Idol? Wow. That actually makes sense.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Ravi--
Huh?

 

[editec]

You'd have to be GAY to choose to practice heterosexual sex.

That's so fucking obvious to every truly straight man that I find it sadly amusing to see closet cases trying to tell we heterosexual men otherwise.

I suppose they imagine that if they can convince us we're choosing to be straight, they won't feel that self loathing which keeps forcing them to protest too much.

When some loser man sets out to tell me how much he hates queers, all I can think is

"Gee, what a bitch it must be for this guy to have to keep pretending to himself and anyone who will listen that he isn't queer"

 

[HUGGY]

Only gays watch Idol? Wow. That actually makes sense.

I watched one show. Honest. My neighbors cousin is that beat boxer frrom Bothell. He got second place cuz they made him sing a lame song. If I had known It would make me gay I would have never watched it. Is there a show you can watch that reverses the gay thing?

 

[Ravi]

Only gays watch Idol? Wow. That actually makes sense.

I watched one show. Honest. My neighbors cousin is that beat boxer frrom Bothell. He got second place cuz they made him sing a lame song. If I had known It would make me gay I would have never watched it. Is there a show you can watch that reverses the gay thing?

Any type of gladiator movie should do the trick.

 

[HUGGY]

Only gays watch Idol? Wow. That actually makes sense.

I watched one show. Honest. My neighbors cousin is that beat boxer frrom Bothell. He got second place cuz they made him sing a lame song. If I had known It would make me gay I would have never watched it. Is there a show you can watch that reverses the gay thing?

Any type of gladiator movie should do the trick.

I dunno.. I heard this ex gladiator ""Nitro" on the AM talkin about his steroids and the female hormones that took over his body growin titties and Christ what a clusterfuck.

I may or may not have gotten infected with the gayness but at least I am not sportin boobs.

 

[Renee]

This homophobia isn't about gay men,.,,,it is really femiphobia. A hatred for women. THe reason men hate male homosexuals is because they are "feminine". SInce men aren't allowed to admit they hate women,. they displace their loathing on men who are feminine. YOu notice they don't get all hysterical about Lesbians..........as a matter of fact, they get off on them.

 

[HUGGY]

This homophobia isn't about gay men,.,,,it is really femiphobia. A hatred for women. THe reason men hate male homosexuals is because they are "feminine". SInce men aren't allowed to admit they hate women,. they displace their loathing on men who are feminine. YOu notice they don't get all hysterical about Lesbians..........as a matter of fact, they get off on them.

I don't hate women. I love certain parts of them. The lezbo thing never attracted me though. It looks pretty pointless. What can a chick do that a man can't do better? In the sack I mean. There are a lot of skirts that out perform men doing jobs and the like.

 

[BrokenAngel]

This homophobia isn't about gay men,.,,,it is really femiphobia. A hatred for women. THe reason men hate male homosexuals is because they are "feminine". SInce men aren't allowed to admit they hate women,. they displace their loathing on men who are feminine. YOu notice they don't get all hysterical about Lesbians..........as a matter of fact, they get off on them.

What do you have to say about the women that get creeped out by lesbians? Do they hate women also?

Not all gays are feminine and to say as much is actually feeding into a stereotype. You might as well be saying that all blacks like watermellon and fried chicken or that all whites are complete yuppies. Well that second half might be pretty close to true but still, my point is the same.

Get past your own pre-determined notions before you start making assumptions about others. Standing in the middle allows you to see a little more clearly in both directions.

 

[American Horse]

You'd have to be GAY to choose to practice heterosexual sex.

Huh? Ed, this may be too deep for me, so I would like to have a clarification for that statement that is less cryptic.

Here are some of my own notions on the subject:
Our city probably has a larger demographic of Gay people than any other in the country except for San Francisco. This is the home of IU and the Kinsey Institute for Sexual Studies founded at IU in the early 1950’s. That signal of open mindedness may have attracted that demo here like the hippy revolution of the 60s played a role in San Fran’s demo. Many hearing this is a gay friendly community come here when they emigrate from SF or NY, or from other places they feel less welcome. This does not give me any “inside knowledge” but at least an awareness of them, partly because of the need to work with them and do business with them commercially if not as much socially. Of course though, social interactions spring from business interactions. These interactions are likely to be far less emotion laden or judgmental than they would be with sons or brothers and/or parental interactions.

Here are some questions to consider:

Does hormonal activity or do hormones-glands control the body and vice versa?
Does the brain/mind (system) control glands and by extension hormones?
Does the way we cultivate our body and how it functions in turn also effect the above?
Do we send out body language as a means of communications subconsciously or unconsciously?
Do we react to body language with reciprocal/matching body language?
Does our comfort level reflect itself in our body language?

A Hypothetical Case: Consider a young boy (in this case but can be reverse-applied to a girl) who has cause to fear girls. Perhaps, but only perhaps the fear comes from some fear of his mother who has undoubtedly had an important role in his emotional life.

But there are many reasons for small boys to fear girls when so much is found in common with their fellows of the same sex, and so much becomes complicated with relationships across sexual boundaries. Consider this hypothetical boy and then imagine a small amount of inherent caution in having interpersonal relations with girls. Or....early on in his formative years there might be a bad experience with a girl in which his “fear” is reinforced or propagated. He would seek a happier place with less problematic relationships, even while he might get along well with a sister/sibling. For our hypothetical boy, might those less problematic relationships with boys lead him to come in contact with others who reflect his own frame of mind, share (an actual discussion might not even have to take place) the same fears, while avoiding the complicated relationships, even rejection that might come otherwise? The period of sexual exploration for most of us begins with “talk” among friends of the same age, not with action.

But one very traumatic ill starred relationship with a member of the opposite sex could be sufficient to set a boy (or correspondingly a girl) on the above described path. All the body types, body language signals, glandular controls, hormonal flows, brain/mind interplay, etc. may thus subsequently flow. This may be the same causality dilemma which arises in the expression “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?”, but simpler to decrypt in individual cases.

Also there may have been a choice at some point beyond which a different path was followed than might've been otherwise. There may have been a propensity or propinquity for that path to have been followed genetically; a conscous decision need never have been made.

 

[HUGGY]

You'd have to be GAY to choose to practice heterosexual sex.

Huh? Ed, this may be too deep for me, so I would like to have a clarification for that statement that is less cryptic.

Here are some of my own notions on the subject:
Our city probably has a larger demographic of Gay people than any other in the country except for San Francisco. This is the home of IU and the Kinsey Institute for Sexual Studies founded at IU in the early 1950’s. That signal of open mindedness may have attracted that demo here like the hippy revolution of the 60s played a role in San Fran’s demo. Many hearing this is a gay friendly community come here when they emigrate from SF or NY, or from other places they feel less welcome. This does not give me any “inside knowledge” but at least an awareness of them, partly because of the need to work with them and do business with them commercially if not as much socially. Of course though, social interactions spring from business interactions. These interactions are likely to be far less emotion laden or judgmental than they would be with sons or brothers and/or parental interactions.

Here are some questions to consider:

Does hormonal activity or do hormones-glands control the body and vice versa?
Does the brain/mind (system) control glands and by extension hormones?
Does the way we cultivate our body and how it functions in turn also effect the above?
Do we send out body language as a means of communications subconsciously or unconsciously?
Do we react to body language with reciprocal/matching body language?
Does our comfort level reflect itself in our body language?

A Hypothetical Case: Consider a young boy (in this case but can be reverse-applied to a girl) who has cause to fear girls. Perhaps, but only perhaps the fear comes from some fear of his mother who has undoubtedly had an important role in his emotional life.

But there are many reasons for small boys to fear girls when so much is found in common with their fellows of the same sex, and so much becomes complicated with relationships across sexual boundaries. Consider this hypothetical boy and then imagine a small amount of inherent caution in having interpersonal relations with girls. Or....early on in his formative years there might be a bad experience with a girl in which his “fear” is reinforced or propagated. He would seek a happier place with less problematic relationships, even while he might get along well with a sister/sibling. For our hypothetical boy, might those less problematic relationships with boys lead him to come in contact with others who reflect his own frame of mind, share (an actual discussion might not even have to take place) the same fears, while avoiding the complicated relationships, even rejection that might come otherwise? The period of sexual exploration for most of us begins with “talk” among friends of the same age, not with action.

But one very traumatic ill starred relationship with a member of the opposite sex could be sufficient to set a boy (or correspondingly a girl) on the above described path. All the body types, body language signals, glandular controls, hormonal flows, brain/mind interplay, etc. may thus subsequently flow. This may be the same causality dilemma which arises in the expression “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?”, but simpler to decrypt in individual cases.

Also there may have been a choice at some point beyond which a different path was followed than might've been otherwise. There may have been a propensity or propinquity for that path to have been followed genetically; a conscous decision need never have been made.

FUCK!!!!~ I ate eggs for breakfast an chicken for lunch.

 

[Ravi]

I watched one show. Honest. My neighbors cousin is that beat boxer frrom Bothell. He got second place cuz they made him sing a lame song. If I had known It would make me gay I would have never watched it. Is there a show you can watch that reverses the gay thing?

Any type of gladiator movie should do the trick.

I dunno.. I heard this ex gladiator ""Nitro" on the AM talkin about his steroids and the female hormones that took over his body growin titties and Christ what a clusterfuck.

I may or may not have gotten infected with the gayness but at least I am not sportin boobs.

You could try reading some of the Bass's posts about the evils of homosexuality. That might also alleviate any "vibes" you've picked up from viewing Idol.

 

[Father Time]

You might as well be saying that all blacks like watermellon and fried chicken or that all whites are complete yuppies. QUOTE]

I've never seen anyone of any race who didn't like fried chicken or watermelon. Blacks got the short straw and have to pretend they don't enjoy it a lot for fear of falling into stereotype.

 

[BrokenAngel]

You might as well be saying that all blacks like watermellon and fried chicken or that all whites are complete yuppies.

I've never seen anyone of any race who didn't like fried chicken or watermelon. Blacks got the short straw and have to pretend they don't enjoy it a lot for fear of falling into stereotype.

I am dying over here with laughter.. that was hillarious.

 

[Amanda]

Only gays watch Idol? Wow. That actually makes sense.

I watched one show. Honest. My neighbors cousin is that beat boxer frrom Bothell. He got second place cuz they made him sing a lame song. If I had known It would make me gay I would have never watched it. Is there a show you can watch that reverses the gay thing?

Probably just about any of the reality shows on VH1, but especially the one with Bret Michaels.