The Chevy Volt

[The T]

Indeed.

When talking to an enviro-wacko they eventually blurt out that money is no object when it comes to their view if saving the environment.

And they are deep drinkers of the punch.

 

[Navy1960]

From blog.american.com. I hear these cars don't do very well in the cold winer months.


Now that’s an expensive car
By Kenneth P. Green

December 21, 2011, 3:38 pm I’ve written before about the insanity that is the GM Volt, but even I am surprised at what the good people at the Mackinac Center found out when they totalled up all the various subsidies that the federal government has thrown into producing the Volt (not including the public’s 26 percent stake in the company). Hold on to your hats:

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

When you throw in subsidies to the battery manufacturers, the subsidy goes up to $256,824 for each of the roughly 6,000 Volts that have been sold.

Adding insult to injury, those subsidies are mostly going to the fairly well-off: “According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, the average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year.”

And I thought that the EV1 was outrageous. Obviously, rent-seekers have become more efficient over time, even if their technology hasn’t.

WASHINGTON/GENEVA, Dec 1 (Reuters) - The European Union said on Thursday it had met a deadline for complying with a WTO ruling against billions of euros of illegal subsidies for aircraft maker Airbus and outlined its actions in a letter to the United States and the World Trade Organization.

Neither side in what is the world's largest trade dispute disclosed the steps taken by the EU, but some trade experts doubted it would succeed in putting an end to the long-running spat between Airbus and its U.S. rival Boeing Co.

UPDATE 4-EU says complies with WTO in Airbus-Boeing dispute | Reuters

BEIJING—China will extend subsidies for energy-efficient cars and new energy cars throughout 2011, as part of China's aim to conserve energy and reduce emissions, the Ministry of Finance said Friday.

The statement posted on the ministry's website didn't provide details on the subsidies. China currently provides a subsidy of 3,000 yuan ($455) for each consumer who buys selected vehicles with engines of 1.6 liters or smaller
China Extends Subsidies for Energy-Efficient Cars - WSJ.com


While we have debated this topic many times before, it's my humble opinion that subsidies are nothing new when it comes to proping up a domestic industry, in fact many US industries get subsidies from the Govt. up to and including everything from oil to agriculture. I would rather American tax dollars go to promote new technolgies that hire and advance American industry rather than eliminate them and put ourselves in a position where we are competing with every nation on earth that does that sort of thing and we are not and see our citizens suffer. The Chevy Volt represents and effort by GM to enter the pulg-in hybrid market place, while it may be costly, new technolgies usually are, if one were to purchase a PC today at what they cost when they first came out they would be saying the same thing about them as they would the cell phone, point being that the more these kinds of technologies become common place the cheaper they are to produce and the cheaper they are to the consumer. Also, as newer models come online, so to does the performance improve, take Fords new effort into the plug in hybrid market place, it is an improvement over the Volt in many respects. One more thing to consider, GM has also begun it's efforts for sales and production of the Volt in China as well and once there you will also see the price come down. So rather than dismiss technologies based on the fact that it may or may not be associated with a political figure we agree or disagree with, perhaps the best thing is to remember that as Americans we have the choice not to buy it, but in the end, it is an American product and should be celebrated for that fact, which we seem to be producing less of these days.

 

[The T]

From blog.american.com. I hear these cars don't do very well in the cold winer months.


Now that’s an expensive car
By Kenneth P. Green

December 21, 2011, 3:38 pm I’ve written before about the insanity that is the GM Volt, but even I am surprised at what the good people at the Mackinac Center found out when they totalled up all the various subsidies that the federal government has thrown into producing the Volt (not including the public’s 26 percent stake in the company). Hold on to your hats:

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

When you throw in subsidies to the battery manufacturers, the subsidy goes up to $256,824 for each of the roughly 6,000 Volts that have been sold.

Adding insult to injury, those subsidies are mostly going to the fairly well-off: “According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, the average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year.”

And I thought that the EV1 was outrageous. Obviously, rent-seekers have become more efficient over time, even if their technology hasn’t.

WASHINGTON/GENEVA, Dec 1 (Reuters) - The European Union said on Thursday it had met a deadline for complying with a WTO ruling against billions of euros of illegal subsidies for aircraft maker Airbus and outlined its actions in a letter to the United States and the World Trade Organization.

Neither side in what is the world's largest trade dispute disclosed the steps taken by the EU, but some trade experts doubted it would succeed in putting an end to the long-running spat between Airbus and its U.S. rival Boeing Co.

UPDATE 4-EU says complies with WTO in Airbus-Boeing dispute | Reuters

BEIJING—China will extend subsidies for energy-efficient cars and new energy cars throughout 2011, as part of China's aim to conserve energy and reduce emissions, the Ministry of Finance said Friday.

The statement posted on the ministry's website didn't provide details on the subsidies. China currently provides a subsidy of 3,000 yuan ($455) for each consumer who buys selected vehicles with engines of 1.6 liters or smaller
China Extends Subsidies for Energy-Efficient Cars - WSJ.com


While we have debated this topic many times before, it's my humble opinion that subsidies are nothing new when it comes to proping up a domestic industry, in fact many US industries get subsidies from the Govt. up to and including everything from oil to agriculture. I would rather American tax dollars go to promote new technolgies that hire and advance American industry rather than eliminate them and put ourselves in a position where we are competing with every nation on earth that does that sort of thing and we are not and see our citizens suffer. The Chevy Volt represents and effort by GM to enter the pulg-in hybrid market place, while it may be costly, new technolgies usually are, if one were to purchase a PC today at what they cost when they first came out they would be saying the same thing about them as they would the cell phone, point being that the more these kinds of technologies become common place the cheaper they are to produce and the cheaper they are to the consumer. Also, as newer models come online, so to does the performance improve, take Fords new effort into the plug in hybrid market place, it is an improvement over the Volt in many respects. One more thing to consider, GM has also begun it's efforts for sales and production of the Volt in China as well and once there you will also see the price come down. So rather than dismiss technologies based on the fact that it may or may not be associated with a political figure we agree or disagree with, perhaps the best thing is to remember that as Americans we have the choice not to buy it, but in the end, it is an American product and should be celebrated for that fact, which we seem to be producing less of these days.

But it has gotten nowhere. Try to explain this to the milklions out of work that don't have the denaro to even think of buying this failure.

 

[Navy1960]

From blog.american.com. I hear these cars don't do very well in the cold winer months.


Now that’s an expensive car
By Kenneth P. Green

December 21, 2011, 3:38 pm I’ve written before about the insanity that is the GM Volt, but even I am surprised at what the good people at the Mackinac Center found out when they totalled up all the various subsidies that the federal government has thrown into producing the Volt (not including the public’s 26 percent stake in the company). Hold on to your hats:

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

When you throw in subsidies to the battery manufacturers, the subsidy goes up to $256,824 for each of the roughly 6,000 Volts that have been sold.

Adding insult to injury, those subsidies are mostly going to the fairly well-off: “According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, the average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year.”

And I thought that the EV1 was outrageous. Obviously, rent-seekers have become more efficient over time, even if their technology hasn’t.

WASHINGTON/GENEVA, Dec 1 (Reuters) - The European Union said on Thursday it had met a deadline for complying with a WTO ruling against billions of euros of illegal subsidies for aircraft maker Airbus and outlined its actions in a letter to the United States and the World Trade Organization.

Neither side in what is the world's largest trade dispute disclosed the steps taken by the EU, but some trade experts doubted it would succeed in putting an end to the long-running spat between Airbus and its U.S. rival Boeing Co.

UPDATE 4-EU says complies with WTO in Airbus-Boeing dispute | Reuters

BEIJING—China will extend subsidies for energy-efficient cars and new energy cars throughout 2011, as part of China's aim to conserve energy and reduce emissions, the Ministry of Finance said Friday.

The statement posted on the ministry's website didn't provide details on the subsidies. China currently provides a subsidy of 3,000 yuan ($455) for each consumer who buys selected vehicles with engines of 1.6 liters or smaller
China Extends Subsidies for Energy-Efficient Cars - WSJ.com


While we have debated this topic many times before, it's my humble opinion that subsidies are nothing new when it comes to proping up a domestic industry, in fact many US industries get subsidies from the Govt. up to and including everything from oil to agriculture. I would rather American tax dollars go to promote new technolgies that hire and advance American industry rather than eliminate them and put ourselves in a position where we are competing with every nation on earth that does that sort of thing and we are not and see our citizens suffer. The Chevy Volt represents and effort by GM to enter the pulg-in hybrid market place, while it may be costly, new technolgies usually are, if one were to purchase a PC today at what they cost when they first came out they would be saying the same thing about them as they would the cell phone, point being that the more these kinds of technologies become common place the cheaper they are to produce and the cheaper they are to the consumer. Also, as newer models come online, so to does the performance improve, take Fords new effort into the plug in hybrid market place, it is an improvement over the Volt in many respects. One more thing to consider, GM has also begun it's efforts for sales and production of the Volt in China as well and once there you will also see the price come down. So rather than dismiss technologies based on the fact that it may or may not be associated with a political figure we agree or disagree with, perhaps the best thing is to remember that as Americans we have the choice not to buy it, but in the end, it is an American product and should be celebrated for that fact, which we seem to be producing less of these days.

But it has gotten nowhere. Try to explain this to the milklions out of work that don't have the denaro to even think of buying this failure.

T, while I appreciate the fact the Volt is expensive and again this my opinion, from a price standpoint it is not economical because it faces competition from other autos that get better mileage than it does. However, that said, it is also my opinion that should we as a nation simply stop promoting technolgies such as these and let the fall by the way side, we do so at our own peril and the number of people that will be out of a job as a result will be much higher than it is now. I have always been one for being prudent and responsible about these kinds of things and if the Govt. planned to put taxpayer money into it then they should have a fixed in stone set of results to be expected and if they are not met then the money should be returned. Again, while I differ from some on this issue these plug in hybrids are not going away and in fact in sheer volume of models will get bigger and bigger and would rather our nation be the ones that lead in this issue than having to suck up to China like we have been for the last 20 years.

 

[francoHFW]

The Volt is selling very well now, 95% of owners are happy, problems have only happened in the lab,and only 2 of 38 large alernative energy projects got in trouble even in this Pub Great Recession economy...

But thanks for cheering against America, brainwashed dittohead douchebags.

 

[francoHFW]

Don't include the factory, all the r+d jobs, all the factory jobs, the factory etc etc etc. Pub dupes! Absolute idiocy!.

 

[The T]

Don't include the factory, all the r+d jobs, all the factory jobs, the factory etc etc etc. Pub dupes! Absolute idiocy!.

Are you a fucking parrot?

 

[Jarhead]

Don't include the factory, all the r+d jobs, all the factory jobs, the factory etc etc etc. Pub dupes! Absolute idiocy!.

silly post.

All those R and D jobs that cost the taxpayer much cash with no positive return.

Whatever...I have found your posts really not worth commenting on...so I blame myself for responding to this one.

 

[Jarhead]

Don't include the factory, all the r+d jobs, all the factory jobs, the factory etc etc etc. Pub dupes! Absolute idiocy!.

Are you a fucking parrot?

No...a parrot doesnt claim to know what he is speaking about when he doesnt.

 

[The T]

WASHINGTON/GENEVA, Dec 1 (Reuters) - The European Union said on Thursday it had met a deadline for complying with a WTO ruling against billions of euros of illegal subsidies for aircraft maker Airbus and outlined its actions in a letter to the United States and the World Trade Organization.

Neither side in what is the world's largest trade dispute disclosed the steps taken by the EU, but some trade experts doubted it would succeed in putting an end to the long-running spat between Airbus and its U.S. rival Boeing Co.

UPDATE 4-EU says complies with WTO in Airbus-Boeing dispute | Reuters

BEIJING—China will extend subsidies for energy-efficient cars and new energy cars throughout 2011, as part of China's aim to conserve energy and reduce emissions, the Ministry of Finance said Friday.

The statement posted on the ministry's website didn't provide details on the subsidies. China currently provides a subsidy of 3,000 yuan ($455) for each consumer who buys selected vehicles with engines of 1.6 liters or smaller
China Extends Subsidies for Energy-Efficient Cars - WSJ.com


While we have debated this topic many times before, it's my humble opinion that subsidies are nothing new when it comes to proping up a domestic industry, in fact many US industries get subsidies from the Govt. up to and including everything from oil to agriculture. I would rather American tax dollars go to promote new technolgies that hire and advance American industry rather than eliminate them and put ourselves in a position where we are competing with every nation on earth that does that sort of thing and we are not and see our citizens suffer. The Chevy Volt represents and effort by GM to enter the pulg-in hybrid market place, while it may be costly, new technolgies usually are, if one were to purchase a PC today at what they cost when they first came out they would be saying the same thing about them as they would the cell phone, point being that the more these kinds of technologies become common place the cheaper they are to produce and the cheaper they are to the consumer. Also, as newer models come online, so to does the performance improve, take Fords new effort into the plug in hybrid market place, it is an improvement over the Volt in many respects. One more thing to consider, GM has also begun it's efforts for sales and production of the Volt in China as well and once there you will also see the price come down. So rather than dismiss technologies based on the fact that it may or may not be associated with a political figure we agree or disagree with, perhaps the best thing is to remember that as Americans we have the choice not to buy it, but in the end, it is an American product and should be celebrated for that fact, which we seem to be producing less of these days.

But it has gotten nowhere. Try to explain this to the milklions out of work that don't have the denaro to even think of buying this failure.

T, while I appreciate the fact the Volt is expensive and again this my opinion, from a price standpoint it is not economical because it faces competition from other autos that get better mileage than it does. However, that said, it is also my opinion that should we as a nation simply stop promoting technolgies such as these and let the fall by the way side, we do so at our own peril and the number of people that will be out of a job as a result will be much higher than it is now. I have always been one for being prudent and responsible about these kinds of things and if the Govt. planned to put taxpayer money into it then they should have a fixed in stone set of results to be expected and if they are not met then the money should be returned. Again, while I differ from some on this issue these plug in hybrids are not going away and in fact in sheer volume of models will get bigger and bigger and would rather our nation be the ones that lead in this issue than having to suck up to China like we have been for the last 20 years.

That's cool. The solution here is that the Governments get thier boots off the necks of the people and let these things happen naturally as it was that got us to this point with technology...Horse and buggy on up.

Private sector...acting on it's own and acting upon demand...not government edict.

 

[francoHFW]

Facts are so boring and repetitive compared to the endless excitement of dittohead/Pub/Foxbot BS. Perfect greedy rich/corporate dupes. Don't feel you have to reply. It only brings down the tone. Keep doing the Dems' work for us. Your idiocy is so obvious...

 

[Dragon]

Even if all of the complaints about the Volt were valid, no matter how hyperbolic some of them are, the Volt would still be only one of the following electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market:

Nissan Leaf
Fiat 500 EV
Ford Focus Electric
Ford C-Max Energi
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Toyota Prius plug-in
Toyota RAV4 EV
Honda Fit EV
Smart Fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
BMW i3
BMW i8
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell
Volkswagen Golf Blue-e-motion

Sources: Electric Cars In 2012 And 2013, List of 2012 Electric Cars | Autobytel.com

If this thread and others about the Volt are intended simply to whine about GM's mismanagement or introduction of a bad product, all that's irrelevant. But if the intention is to put down electric cars in general, well, you've got a fail.

 

[Navy1960]

But it has gotten nowhere. Try to explain this to the milklions out of work that don't have the denaro to even think of buying this failure.

T, while I appreciate the fact the Volt is expensive and again this my opinion, from a price standpoint it is not economical because it faces competition from other autos that get better mileage than it does. However, that said, it is also my opinion that should we as a nation simply stop promoting technolgies such as these and let the fall by the way side, we do so at our own peril and the number of people that will be out of a job as a result will be much higher than it is now. I have always been one for being prudent and responsible about these kinds of things and if the Govt. planned to put taxpayer money into it then they should have a fixed in stone set of results to be expected and if they are not met then the money should be returned. Again, while I differ from some on this issue these plug in hybrids are not going away and in fact in sheer volume of models will get bigger and bigger and would rather our nation be the ones that lead in this issue than having to suck up to China like we have been for the last 20 years.

That's cool. The solution here is that the Governments get thier boots off the necks of the people and let these things happen naturally as it was that got us to this point with technology...Horse and buggy on up.

Private sector...acting on it's own and acting upon demand...not government edict.

T, if you have a chance take a look at what the Govt. has done with NASA and the sort of mini boom in the space industry that has resulted as result of Govt. being the means by which private industry can thrive rather than Govt. doing everything from start to finish and getting in the way. Companies like Space X, Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic, ULA, have all started a positive American revival in the space industry. In fact in a month or so, Space X will fly an American built space craft called Dragon to the Internation Space Station, and Burt Rutan Company along with Paul Alan are building a Space Plane that will be the Worlds largest aircraft. My point here is simply this, we as Americans need to start cheering and seeking out our own industries for them to become sucess as its become obvious that our Govt. regardless of your political beliefs has sold this nation to the highest bidder. So cars like the Volt at least to me represent American technology and industry and that "can do " spirit that is so lacking these days and in the end if everyone should have that, then jobs will be plentiful.

 

[Trajan]

Oh what fun. Let's talk about absurd claims from blogs as if they were facts.

fair enough. are the figures wrong?

The figures are absurd and unsubstantiated. You really think it makes sense that the Volt really costs $250,000?

sure it does, becasue if you were a business man, you'd realize that capital costs, all expenses, marketing, etc. etc. all count when you roll out the product. did you know that GM used roughly 500 million to 750 million to retool a line to mass produce the volt?

 

[Trajan]

Even if all of the complaints about the Volt were valid, no matter how hyperbolic some of them are, the Volt would still be only one of the following electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market:

Nissan Leaf
Fiat 500 EV
Ford Focus Electric
Ford C-Max Energi
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Toyota Prius plug-in
Toyota RAV4 EV
Honda Fit EV
Smart Fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
BMW i3
BMW i8
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell
Volkswagen Golf Blue-e-motion

Sources: Electric Cars In 2012 And 2013, List of 2012 Electric Cars | Autobytel.com

If this thread and others about the Volt are intended simply to whine about GM's mismanagement or introduction of a bad product, all that's irrelevant. But if the intention is to put down electric cars in general, well, you've got a fail.

I have the same problem with the Leaf that I do with the Volt. Do you know how and why Nissan came to producing the Leaf for the amercian market?

 

[francoHFW]

#35- Is your question supposed to be making a point, or is it the old Fox-prey-on-ignorance "is Obama Kenyan" BS....

 

[Dragon]

I have the same problem with the Leaf that I do with the Volt. Do you know how and why Nissan came to producing the Leaf for the amercian market?

No, but knowing how aggressively the Japanese government helps its key industries, I could probably make an educated guess.

Still, that's how the world operates these days. Shall we join them or be left in the dust?

You might have noticed, by the way, that two of those non-Volt cars are Fords, i.e. American made, and although there's no reason why you would know this, so is half of the Fiat 500 EV in that Fiat makes it in partnership with Chrysler.

 

[The T]

Even if all of the complaints about the Volt were valid, no matter how hyperbolic some of them are, the Volt would still be only one of the following electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market:

Nissan Leaf
Fiat 500 EV
Ford Focus Electric
Ford C-Max Energi
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Toyota Prius plug-in
Toyota RAV4 EV
Honda Fit EV
Smart Fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
BMW i3
BMW i8
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell
Volkswagen Golf Blue-e-motion

Sources: Electric Cars In 2012 And 2013, List of 2012 Electric Cars | Autobytel.com

If this thread and others about the Volt are intended simply to whine about GM's mismanagement or introduction of a bad product, all that's irrelevant. But if the intention is to put down electric cars in general, well, you've got a fail.

I have the same problem with the Leaf that I do with the Volt. Do you know how and why Nissan came to producing the Leaf for the amercian market?

I'd like to know your beef with it...and to answer the question as to why they brought it here?

Cost/Competition?

 

[KissMy]

Even if all of the complaints about the Volt were valid, no matter how hyperbolic some of them are, the Volt would still be only one of the following electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market:

Nissan Leaf
Fiat 500 EV
Ford Focus Electric
Ford C-Max Energi
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Toyota Prius plug-in
Toyota RAV4 EV
Honda Fit EV
Smart Fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
BMW i3
BMW i8
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell
Volkswagen Golf Blue-e-motion

Sources: Electric Cars In 2012 And 2013, List of 2012 Electric Cars | Autobytel.com

If this thread and others about the Volt are intended simply to whine about GM's mismanagement or introduction of a bad product, all that's irrelevant. But if the intention is to put down electric cars in general, well, you've got a fail.

You are full of crap! Toyota Prius is still the most popular selling electric vehicle & they still lose money on every one they sell.

 

[Dragon]

Toyota Prius is still the most popular selling electric vehicle & they still lose money on every one they sell.

The Prius is actually a hybrid, not an electric. The Prius plug-in hybrid is a genuine electric (battery-powered) that is called a "hybrid" because it has a gas motor for backup when it runs out of juice somewhere.That's the difference between a "plug-in hybrid" and a plain "hybrid." I don't have any stats on the profitability of either car. You might want to present some to back up your statement.