The Cave Question

[Flanders]

If you’re a Tea Party conservative you gotta love the dilemma Karl Rove’s Republicans are facing. They cannot cave on defunding the ACA because caving will cost them dearly in the coming midterms and in 2016. Since the MSM is blaming them anyway they gain nothing by caving.

Blame is taking the form of MSM scare tactics like the horror of not being able to visit the Statue of Liberty and a baby panda. I have nothing against pandas. Not so with Lady Liberty. The fewer people who visit the Statue of Liberty the better. See the OP in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/275451-a-brief-history-of-hatred.html

Here’s the cave question every one of Rove’s Republican should be asking themselves: Which one of the two is more likely to occur if I cave?

1. Democrats will vote for me in 2014.

2. Conservatives will NOT vote for me.

 

[DGS49]

A few thoughts:

ACA us the law of the land, passed by Congress and signed by the President. The fact that it was passed in hurried fashion by a single political party is interesting, but does not "void" the law or make it any less the law.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the most offensive provisions of ACA are Constitutional. We "Tea Partiers" may think that Justice Roberts was full of shit in his opinion, but the USSC is the court of last resort, and our side LOST.

If the Republicans ever take over both houses and the White House, they might be able to repeal or modify some portions of ACA, but they are not in that position yet.

So simply throwing a tantrum because they don't like the law is NOT acceptable.

They have a very large burden right now: They have to make a strong, logical argument to the American people for why they are JUSTIFIED in attempting to block this perfectly legitimate piece of legislation. There are many reasons, but the argument has not been made successfully - possibly because of complicity of the MSM with the Democrat National Committee.

There WILL be a continuing resolution and it WILL fund ACA. It's just a matter of time, because to default on credit obligations is simply not an option.

Unless the Republicans can explain why they are not just being Sore Losers, they will lose a lot of votes in the 2014 Congressional elections.

 

[Flanders]

A few thoughts:

ACA us the law of the land, passed by Congress and signed by the President. The fact that it was passed in hurried fashion by a single political party is interesting, but does not "void" the law or make it any less the law.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the most offensive provisions of ACA are Constitutional. We "Tea Partiers" may think that Justice Roberts was full of shit in his opinion, but the USSC is the court of last resort, and our side LOST.

If the Republicans ever take over both houses and the White House, they might be able to repeal or modify some portions of ACA, but they are not in that position yet.

So simply throwing a tantrum because they don't like the law is NOT acceptable.

They have a very large burden right now: They have to make a strong, logical argument to the American people for why they are JUSTIFIED in attempting to block this perfectly legitimate piece of legislation. There are many reasons, but the argument has not been made successfully - possibly because of complicity of the MSM with the Democrat National Committee.

There WILL be a continuing resolution and it WILL fund ACA. It's just a matter of time, because to default on credit obligations is simply not an option.

Unless the Republicans can explain why they are not just being Sore Losers, they will lose a lot of votes in the 2014 Congressional elections.

To DGS49: I understand your positions although I do not agree with your premise.

Congress has the constitutional authority to repeal bad laws irrespective of Supreme Court rulings. The ACA is so bad that defunding is a necessary prelude to repeal. If it is not defunded before millions of parasites get tax dollar jobs they will make repeal all the more difficult through their unions and political activistism groups.

The money Democrat candidates get from an increased parasite class will originate with tax dollars. That’s why Republicans must not cave. Hanging tough will win votes not lose them as you suggest.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

A few thoughts:

ACA us the law of the land, passed by Congress and signed by the President. The fact that it was passed in hurried fashion by a single political party is interesting, but does not "void" the law or make it any less the law.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the most offensive provisions of ACA are Constitutional. We "Tea Partiers" may think that Justice Roberts was full of shit in his opinion, but the USSC is the court of last resort, and our side LOST.

If the Republicans ever take over both houses and the White House, they might be able to repeal or modify some portions of ACA, but they are not in that position yet.

So simply throwing a tantrum because they don't like the law is NOT acceptable.

They have a very large burden right now: They have to make a strong, logical argument to the American people for why they are JUSTIFIED in attempting to block this perfectly legitimate piece of legislation. There are many reasons, but the argument has not been made successfully - possibly because of complicity of the MSM with the Democrat National Committee.

There WILL be a continuing resolution and it WILL fund ACA. It's just a matter of time, because to default on credit obligations is simply not an option.

Unless the Republicans can explain why they are not just being Sore Losers, they will lose a lot of votes in the 2014 Congressional elections.

You fail to realize that the bill that was signed into law is not the same bill being implemented therefore it is not actually legal.

 

[jwoodie]

Congress has a Constitutional duty to instruct the Executive Branch how to spend the people's money (i.e., Budget). The Executive Branch has NO constitutional authority to amend laws or decide not to enforce them (e.g., ACA).

Comprende?

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no cave question.

Boehner is playing out the rope to the TPM so that it will hang itself when he saws off the limb on which they are standing.

When he puts up the CR without amendments for an up and down vote, the TPM is left twisting slowly, slowly in the air.

 

[Flanders]

Congress has a Constitutional duty to instruct the Executive Branch how to spend the people's money (i.e., Budget). The Executive Branch has NO constitutional authority to amend laws or decide not to enforce them (e.g., ACA).

Comprende?

To jwoodie: I’m not certain of the wording in you response. Example: Barack Taqiyya and congressional Democrats are trying to enforce a bad law. Are you trying to be clever, or is it your way of saying Democrats are responsible for the government shutdown?

 

[Flanders]

Democrats are so obvious it’s apparent that Republicans are winning the blame game everywhere except in the MSM. Were that untrue the White House would not be pleading for sob stories:

. . . Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., won't bring up any resolutions that would fund government programs such as national parks and veterans' services.

So, while hundreds of thousands of Americans are furloughed for being “non-essential,” the White House has found asking for their stories to be “essential.”

White House asking for sad shutdown stories
By ASHE SCHOW | OCTOBER 4, 2013 AT 2:27 PM

White House asking for sad shutdown stories | WashingtonExaminer.com

Democrats are so pathetic they shutdown WWII cemeteries in France as part of their sob story strategy:

The site overlooking the D-Day invasion beaches is one of 24 U.S. military cemeteries overseas that have closed to visitors since Monday. Ten more cemeteries in in France, as well as others in various European countries as well as Mexico, Panama, Tunisia and the Philippines, will remain closed for the duration of the shutdown.

The cemeteries are maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission, set up after the First World War. Nearly 125,000 U.S. servicemen and women are buried at its cemeteries, and an additional 94,000 are commemorated on tablets of the missing.

UNBELIEVABLE: Obama closes Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial over shutdown
Posted by The Right Scoop on October 3rd, 2013

UNBELIEVABLE: Obama closes Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial over shutdown » The Right Scoop -

Flanders Field in Belgium was probably shutdown, too, even though there can’t be too many voters still living who lost a loved one in WWI. No matter. WWI dead have sob story value.

In Flanders Field
By John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.​

 

[bendog]

When one calls fellow citizens parasites, one leaves the realm of principled discussion ... and ciivics.

 

[Flanders]

When one calls fellow citizens parasites, one leaves the realm of principled discussion ... and ciivics.

To bendog: Perhaps my comments in threads with the word parasite in their titles will change your mind:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/315565-pockets-of-parasites.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/310116-advances-in-parasite-technology.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/308371-the-darling-of-the-parasite-party.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/286992-pelosi-s-first-wave-of-parasites.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/285543-fort-parasite.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/media/280019-television-and-parasites.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/264827-parasites-and-maggots.html

 

[Flanders]

It’s safe to say that Jon Boehner answered the cave question and then some. For the first time since HillaryCare II became law, I believe that Boehner’s heart is in the fight. Ditto every House Republican except a very few Rove Republican diehards:

"I and my members decided that the threat of Obamacare and what was happening was so important that it was time for us to take a stand. And we took a stand," the Ohio Republican said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."

XXXXX​

"You've never seen a more dedicated group of people who are thoroughly concerned about the future of our country," he said of House Republicans. "It is time for us to stand and fight."

Boehner: 'It is time for us to stand and fight'
By JENNIFER EPSTEIN |
10/6/13 9:39 AM EDT

Boehner: 'It is time for us to stand and fight' - POLITICO.com

Equally important is the fact that Democrats are losing the media blame game:

Publicly, the Democrats are full of confidence that they have the Republicans cornered on the partial government shutdown. They figure that with the help of their media friends, they can keep the public ignorant . . .

XXXXX​

But when it comes to body language, a different story is being told.

October 6, 2013
A sign of Dem disquiet on shutdown
Thomas Lifson

Blog: A sign of Dem disquiet on shutdown

The battle has turned. With the certainty of fighting a protracted war looming before them Democrats now must answer a cave question of their own. Which one of the two is more likely to occur if I do not cave?

1. The ACA will be defunded now and repealed later anyway.

2. Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi, on orders from the fürhrerbunker, will order me to fall on my sword in a losing battle.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And we see the far right reactionaries continue in la la land, like they did last year before the election.

 

[Flanders]

Here’s another question worth pondering. How come talking heads make a point of saying that John Boehner is the one man that can reopen the government, but they never say the same thing about Harry Reid or the president?

One more question for the road. How come nobody is saying that Chief Justice John Roberts is the one man that made the shutdown inevitable?

 

[Two Thumbs]

If you’re a Tea Party conservative you gotta love the dilemma Karl Rove’s Republicans are facing. They cannot cave on defunding the ACA because caving will cost them dearly in the coming midterms and in 2016. Since the MSM is blaming them anyway they gain nothing by caving.

Blame is taking the form of MSM scare tactics like the horror of not being able to visit the Statue of Liberty and a baby panda. I have nothing against pandas. Not so with Lady Liberty. The fewer people who visit the Statue of Liberty the better. See the OP in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/275451-a-brief-history-of-hatred.html

Here’s the cave question every one of Rove’s Republican should be asking themselves: Which one of the two is more likely to occur if I cave?

1. Democrats will vote for me in 2014.

2. Conservatives will NOT vote for me.

Well since obama refuses to talk and that gets blamed on the gop, the gop should just let shit go and go.

If you get all the blame, no matter what, fuggum until you get what you want.

They better be right though.

 

[Two Thumbs]

A few thoughts:

ACA us the law of the land, passed by Congress and signed by the President. The fact that it was passed in hurried fashion by a single political party is interesting, but does not "void" the law or make it any less the law.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the most offensive provisions of ACA are Constitutional. We "Tea Partiers" may think that Justice Roberts was full of shit in his opinion, but the USSC is the court of last resort, and our side LOST.

If the Republicans ever take over both houses and the White House, they might be able to repeal or modify some portions of ACA, but they are not in that position yet.

So simply throwing a tantrum because they don't like the law is NOT acceptable.

They have a very large burden right now: They have to make a strong, logical argument to the American people for why they are JUSTIFIED in attempting to block this perfectly legitimate piece of legislation. There are many reasons, but the argument has not been made successfully - possibly because of complicity of the MSM with the Democrat National Committee.

There WILL be a continuing resolution and it WILL fund ACA. It's just a matter of time, because to default on credit obligations is simply not an option.

Unless the Republicans can explain why they are not just being Sore Losers, they will lose a lot of votes in the 2014 Congressional elections.

Prohibition was the law of the land.

The valid argument against aca is the funding itself. We are $16,956 Billion in debt, the aca will ramp that up to unfathomable levels.

 

[tinydancer]

If you’re a Tea Party conservative you gotta love the dilemma Karl Rove’s Republicans are facing. They cannot cave on defunding the ACA because caving will cost them dearly in the coming midterms and in 2016. Since the MSM is blaming them anyway they gain nothing by caving.

Blame is taking the form of MSM scare tactics like the horror of not being able to visit the Statue of Liberty and a baby panda. I have nothing against pandas. Not so with Lady Liberty. The fewer people who visit the Statue of Liberty the better. See the OP in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/275451-a-brief-history-of-hatred.html

Here’s the cave question every one of Rove’s Republican should be asking themselves: Which one of the two is more likely to occur if I cave?

1. Democrats will vote for me in 2014.

2. Conservatives will NOT vote for me.

Well since obama refuses to talk and that gets blamed on the gop, the gop should just let shit go and go.

If you get all the blame, no matter what, fuggum until you get what you want.

They better be right though.

Agreed.

R's are going to take the blame for now. TP are going to take the blame for now. All you can do is hold the line till the truth of the shutdown is told coast to coast.

The President is a prick and won't negotiate. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is a prick and won't negotiate.

Just have to keep getting the message out.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's not how the majority of the polled see it, solidly.

 

[tinydancer]

And we see the far right reactionaries continue in la la land, like they did last year before the election.

The right was in la la land?

They didn't come out and vote for Romney now did they? Conservatives stayed home. Obama didn't win. Romney lost.

Rove, Romney and the middle of the road I stand for nothings lost.

 

[Flanders]

Click on the link for the video of Speaker Boehner on ABC’s This Week:

'This Week' Exclusive Interview: John Boehner | Video - ABC News

I’ll wager that Georgie the Greek would not grill the president, or Harry Reid, with the same prosecutorial zeal he exhibited with Speaker Boehner. Nor would he make his Democrat pals look like they are responsible for the government shutdown even though they are. Remember that Stephanopoulos helped get Clinton elected in 1992 then became a White House advisor on policy and strategy until the end of 1996. If sandbagging Boehner does not come under the heading of policy and strategy it will do until something better comes along.

 

[Flanders]

Here’s the cave question every one of Rove’s Republican should be asking themselves: Which one of the two is more likely to occur if I cave?

1. Democrats will vote for me in 2014.

2. Conservatives will NOT vote for me.

In 2008 I made up my mind not to vote for McCain just to beat the Democrat. Ditto Romney in 2012. I’m now on the verge of never again voting for a candidate wearing the Republican label even if I believe the guy is a true Tea Party conservative. One more cave in by Republicans and I’m gone for good. I have a year to watch. Actually, my latest decision is a relief because I don’t have to watch too closely. When the next cave in comes it will be as obvious as the recent one.

My reasoning: To hell with it. Democrats destroying the country in huge bites like the Affordable Care Act is less painful than the death of a thousand cuts administered by Karl Rove Republicans.