The Catholic Church Compared to Other Pedophilies

[Madeline]

In the past month alone, there have been pedophilia scandals in US Swimming, the Republican Party, high school teaching (again), etc. Pedophiles are EXTREMELY determined criminals who will go to ANY length to access kidlets.

There's a case pending now in Cleveland involving allegations that a woman obtained a special education teaching degree JUST to access developmentally disabled students, and having selected one, targeted the child and his family and used DRUGS to render the child pliable enough to have sex with. A special education teaching degree most likely took this criminal (if she's guilty) SIX YEARS at least to attain.

That's not an unusual effort to gain access to kidlets for the pedophiles in today's society. Pedophilia and pedastry (sexual desire for adolescents in an adult) is not a preference or a stray fantasy. These criminals have a craven desire to hurt kidlets that nothing short of death or incarceration will ever stop.

Cleveland teacher indicted for having sex with student | cleveland.com

USA Swimming Rocked By Molestation Scandal | The FOX Nation

Republican sex scandals, nail in the coffin for GOP

Parents should never automatically trust ANY adult, trust no adult BLINDLY, teach their kidlets to report to them any discomfort and most importantly, BELIEVE the kidlet if he or she asks for protection from ANY adult. Regardless of how hard it is to believe that a particular adult hurt your kidlet, protect the kidlet from further unsupervised contact, at the very least. (Whatever else needs to be done is a complex question and there are no hard and fast rules, IMO.)

Little kidlets (under age 10 or so) are NEVER going to falsely report sex abuse UNLESS another adult is manipulating them. So, if the kidlet is involved in a custody dispute, there might could be a doubt. But ONLY if the kidlet is reporting abuse allegedly committed by the parent who is seeking to attain or maintain custody...NOT if they complain their music teacher is fondling them.

But I digress.....

Here's the thing. The pedophilies in these other cases did not form some sort of mutual aid society, and no one entered into a conspiracy after the fact to protect them from prosecution or assure them FUTURE access to additional groups of child victims. Occasionally, you will hear of pedophiles themselves forming conspiracies, a la child porn trading groups, but NOTHING on the scale of the Catholic Church. And the Church has been in the pedophilia business since at least WW II. Most likely, for over a century now...but older victims have now died off, of course.

Nope, for the breadth and depth of depraved destruction of the lives of children and their families, there just is no historical parallel to the Catholic Church that I have ever heard of. Even Ancient Rome and its Emperors did not abuse children on such a scale. And personally, I believe it is still happening.

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Whatever comfort you may be getting from remaining willfully blind to the path of destruction the Church INTENTIONALLY carved/carves through whole communities, I just cannot see how any ethical person can argue their comfort outweighs the safety and well-being of their communities' children.

 

[martybegan]

I thought most of the cases in the church involved pederasty and not clinical pedophillia.

Your line of logic is also confusing. You point out other cases of abuse, which seems to show that it isn't just the Church where this is an issue, but then in the end all of a sudden hammer only the Church, applying the cautionary rule.

 

[Tom Clancy]

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Because the media makes it out to be that MOST Priests are Child Molesters.. when in fact it isn't.

Now, now, I agree with your post, I know when I do have a kid i'll make sure to teach him about not trusting strangers.. well, doesn't everybody?

Anywho, a good way to end these Scandals is to let Priests marry.. they won't be Sexually Repressed and turn to kids.

Easy.

 

[Madeline]

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Because the media makes it out to be that MOST Priests are Child Molesters.. when in fact it isn't.

Now, now, I agree with your post, I know when I do have a kid i'll make sure to teach him about not trusting strangers.. well, doesn't everybody?

Anywho, a good way to end these Scandals is to let Priests marry.. they won't be Sexually Repressed and turn to kids.

Easy.

TomClancy, it is NOT just priests. It is NOT just men who sexually abuse children. Nuns -- women -- do as well...and that scandal just gets swept under the rug. For reasons I have never understood, if a child is abused by an adult woman it is somehow confusing to folks whether they should condemn that crime and that criminal, but sex abuse of children by adult men gets everyone foaming at the mouth.

Yes of course it is the whole notion of celibacy, a notion that has been a feature of the Church since Constantinople and which will never change in my opinion. It is a reflection of the Church's radical anti-female, anti-sex attitude and cannot be undone without remaking the Church to such a degree it would be unrecognizable.

Celibacy is a highly unnatural state for almost any adult and no one can reasonably decide at 12 or 14 they will not want a lover when they are an adult. Prior to say, the 1980's, the Church regularly and very aggressively recruited pre-teens into the clergy and these people, as adults, may well have been nudged into pedophilia as a way to cope with the restrictions of a "calling" they could not fulfill. The Church STILL wrings its hands every time a nun or monk or priest leaves the clergy and usually excommunicates them....but no Catholic Hierarchy has been hand-wringing over the pedophilia scandals, apart from resenting the backlash they've created.

If you ran a bank and hired only ex-bank robbers to be your tellers, wouldn't you reasonably expect that you might could have a somewhat high risk of employee theft than the bank owner down the street, who refuses to hire any ex-cons?

 

[Avatar4321]

If you disagree with catholicisms view on celibacy, don't believe in their Church.

 

[Madeline]

I thought most of the cases in the church involved pederasty and not clinical pedophillia.

Your line of logic is also confusing. You point out other cases of abuse, which seems to show that it isn't just the Church where this is an issue, but then in the end all of a sudden hammer only the Church, applying the cautionary rule.

There's no hard and fast line between pedophilia (sexual desire in an adult for the use of child with no secondary sex characteristics) and pedastry (sexual desire in an adult for an adolescent under the age of consent). Not many people realize this, and I think it's unfair to laden on the implied consent from victims so many seem to feel must be present in cases of pedastry. What would you have us do? Ask child sex abuse victims when they began to have pubic hair, etc.?

Beyond that, martybegan, my point is that although pedophila can and does happen almost anywhere, there has never been an organized gang of baby rapers and their cover-up artists to compare to the RCC. No one is running around US Swimming trying to intimidate victims of sex abuse into silence. No one is moving Republicans from state to state so they can abuse more minors. The high school teacher will lose her license to teach if found guilty.

No one is engaging in behavior that frustrates the prosecution of these criminals EXCEPT the heirarchy of the RCC.

 

[Madeline]

If you disagree with catholicisms view on celibacy, don't believe in their Church.

Actually I don't have that big an issue with the vow of celibacy all by itself. It's the historical context in which it was first adopted and the effect it has had on Catholics through the years that I find objectionable. I'd guess that Mahatma Ghandi was celibate much of his adult life. Also Nelson Mandella. Also, God willing, my unmarried young adult relatives.

I'm not having sex tonight and I don't think my head will explode because of it. Celibacy itself does not cause some sort of mental illness, and it is not an excuse to commit crimes. But as a leg of Catholic dogma and a practice of Catholic clergy, yes, it seems to have been a problem.

 

[chanel]

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Because the media makes it out to be that MOST Priests are Child Molesters.. when in fact it isn't.

Now, now, I agree with your post, I know when I do have a kid i'll make sure to teach him about not trusting strangers.. well, doesn't everybody?

Anywho, a good way to end these Scandals is to let Priests marry.. they won't be Sexually Repressed and turn to kids.

Easy.

I agree that priests should be able to marry, but I do not believe that sexual repression leads to pedophilia. I just believe the Church will just attract a larger and better pool of applicants and it won't be such an attraction to gays.

Oh and Madeline - the teacher's unions can be as complicit as the Vatican. Coverup of pederasty in public schools happens every day.

Teacher student sex scandals. Updated Daily

 

[Madeline]

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Because the media makes it out to be that MOST Priests are Child Molesters.. when in fact it isn't.

Now, now, I agree with your post, I know when I do have a kid i'll make sure to teach him about not trusting strangers.. well, doesn't everybody?

Anywho, a good way to end these Scandals is to let Priests marry.. they won't be Sexually Repressed and turn to kids.

Easy.

I agree that priests should be able to marry, but I do not believe that sexual repression leads to pedophilia. I just believe the Church will just attract a larger and better pool of applicants and it won't be such an attraction to gays.

Oh and Madeline - the teacher's unions can be as complicit as the Vatican. Coverup of pederasty in public schools happens every day.

Teacher student sex scandals. Updated Daily

I dunno whether to light you on fire for linking celibacy and homosexuality or hug you for urping up another deep dark secret cave full of pedophiles and their investors, chanel.

It's Friday, so I will go with hugging. That just about stuns me stupid, that piece on the Teacher's Union. Thankies for the caution flag, miss.

 

[martybegan]

Because the media makes it out to be that MOST Priests are Child Molesters.. when in fact it isn't.

Now, now, I agree with your post, I know when I do have a kid i'll make sure to teach him about not trusting strangers.. well, doesn't everybody?

Anywho, a good way to end these Scandals is to let Priests marry.. they won't be Sexually Repressed and turn to kids.

Easy.

I agree that priests should be able to marry, but I do not believe that sexual repression leads to pedophilia. I just believe the Church will just attract a larger and better pool of applicants and it won't be such an attraction to gays.

Oh and Madeline - the teacher's unions can be as complicit as the Vatican. Coverup of pederasty in public schools happens every day.

Teacher student sex scandals. Updated Daily

I dunno whether to light you on fire for linking celibacy and homosexuality or hug you for urping up another deep dark secret cave full of pedophiles and their investors, chanel.

It's Friday, so I will go with hugging. That just about stuns me stupid, that piece on the Teacher's Union. Thankies for the caution flag, miss.

I dont think its linking one to another. Its more that back in the day, for devout people who had homosexual leanings, the priesthood could have been seen as a way to control the "urges" they felt. This is before the changes of the 60's mind you.

I also restate that in most cases the priests are guilty of pederasty, not pedophilla in a clinical sense. Most of the cases involve adolescent boys, not pre adolescent. If you follow the logic trail of the line above the people in question repressed their sexuality at the adolescent stage, and once it emerges again, thats the stage it remains in.

I'm not advocating the theory, just stating it.

 

[Madeline]

I agree that priests should be able to marry, but I do not believe that sexual repression leads to pedophilia. I just believe the Church will just attract a larger and better pool of applicants and it won't be such an attraction to gays.

Oh and Madeline - the teacher's unions can be as complicit as the Vatican. Coverup of pederasty in public schools happens every day.

Teacher student sex scandals. Updated Daily

I dunno whether to light you on fire for linking celibacy and homosexuality or hug you for urping up another deep dark secret cave full of pedophiles and their investors, chanel.

It's Friday, so I will go with hugging. That just about stuns me stupid, that piece on the Teacher's Union. Thankies for the caution flag, miss.

I dont think its linking one to another. Its more that back in the day, for devout people who had homosexual leanings, the priesthood could have been seen as a way to control the "urges" they felt. This is before the changes of the 60's mind you.

I also restate that in most cases the priests are guilty of pederasty, not pedophilla in a clinical sense. Most of the cases involve adolescent boys, not pre adolescent. If you follow the logic trail of the line above the people in question repressed their sexuality at the adolescent stage, and once it emerges again, thats the stage it remains in.

I'm not advocating the theory, just stating it.

You are one deep thinker, martybegan. It's a pleasure to convo with you, truly.

 

[Newby]

In the past month alone, there have been pedophilia scandals in US Swimming, the Republican Party, high school teaching (again), etc. Pedophiles are EXTREMELY determined criminals who will go to ANY length to access kidlets.

There's a case pending now in Cleveland involving allegations that a woman obtained a special education teaching degree JUST to access developmentally disabled students, and having selected one, targeted the child and his family and used DRUGS to render the child pliable enough to have sex with. A special education teaching degree most likely took this criminal (if she's guilty) SIX YEARS at least to attain.

That's not an unusual effort to gain access to kidlets for the pedophiles in today's society. Pedophilia and pedastry (sexual desire for adolescents in an adult) is not a preference or a stray fantasy. These criminals have a craven desire to hurt kidlets that nothing short of death or incarceration will ever stop.

Cleveland teacher indicted for having sex with student | cleveland.com

USA Swimming Rocked By Molestation Scandal | The FOX Nation

Republican sex scandals, nail in the coffin for GOP

Parents should never automatically trust ANY adult, trust no adult BLINDLY, teach their kidlets to report to them any discomfort and most importantly, BELIEVE the kidlet if he or she asks for protection from ANY adult. Regardless of how hard it is to believe that a particular adult hurt your kidlet, protect the kidlet from further unsupervised contact, at the very least. (Whatever else needs to be done is a complex question and there are no hard and fast rules, IMO.)

Little kidlets (under age 10 or so) are NEVER going to falsely report sex abuse UNLESS another adult is manipulating them. So, if the kidlet is involved in a custody dispute, there might could be a doubt. But ONLY if the kidlet is reporting abuse allegedly committed by the parent who is seeking to attain or maintain custody...NOT if they complain their music teacher is fondling them.

But I digress.....

Here's the thing. The pedophilies in these other cases did not form some sort of mutual aid society, and no one entered into a conspiracy after the fact to protect them from prosecution or assure them FUTURE access to additional groups of child victims. Occasionally, you will hear of pedophiles themselves forming conspiracies, a la child porn trading groups, but NOTHING on the scale of the Catholic Church. And the Church has been in the pedophilia business since at least WW II. Most likely, for over a century now...but older victims have now died off, of course.

Nope, for the breadth and depth of depraved destruction of the lives of children and their families, there just is no historical parallel to the Catholic Church that I have ever heard of. Even Ancient Rome and its Emperors did not abuse children on such a scale. And personally, I believe it is still happening.

If you are a Catholic, and still attend Mass, tithe, etc. my question to you is WHY? And if you send your kidlet into the hands of Catholic clergy as a parochial school student, altar boy, etc., my plea to you is WAKE UP. The Catholic clergy may not all be guilty of pedophilia...but WHY entrust any child to a group of people with such an offensive record of hurting kidlets?

Whatever comfort you may be getting from remaining willfully blind to the path of destruction the Church INTENTIONALLY carved/carves through whole communities, I just cannot see how any ethical person can argue their comfort outweighs the safety and well-being of their communities' children.

The Cleveland story.

Breaking News, Crime, Real Time News »
Cleveland teacher indicted for having sex with student
By Michael Sangiacomo, The Plain Dealer
November 21, 2009, 12:02PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A 30-year-old charter school teacher was indicted on sexual battery charges after prosecutors said she had sexual relations with a 17-year-old student .

The USA Swimming story.

In a sex abuse scandal that some victims compare to what happened in the Catholic Church, at least 36 swimming coaches have been banned for life by the USA Swimming organization over the last 10 years because of sexual misconduct with teenagers they coached. Reported in April 2010.

The Republican "Sex Scandal" story.

Republican sex scandals, nail in the coffin for GOP
Published by Fred Soto•

October 15th, 2007

RSS News Feed 0
diggs
diggAnother gay Republican pedophile allegation

Donald Fleischman (R) pedophile allegations

The chairman of the Republican Party in Brown County faces criminal charges for allegedly fondling a 16-year-old Ethan House and providing the boy with beer and marijuana last year. Donald Fleischman, 37, of Allouez, was charged with two counts of child enticement, two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a child and a charge of exposing himself to a child.

This is your example of a 'Republican Sex Scandal' within the last month? Can you be anymore partisan or dishonest? Seriously?

 

[martybegan]

I thought most of the cases in the church involved pederasty and not clinical pedophillia.

Your line of logic is also confusing. You point out other cases of abuse, which seems to show that it isn't just the Church where this is an issue, but then in the end all of a sudden hammer only the Church, applying the cautionary rule.

There's no hard and fast line between pedophilia (sexual desire in an adult for the use of child with no secondary sex characteristics) and pedastry (sexual desire in an adult for an adolescent under the age of consent). Not many people realize this, and I think it's unfair to laden on the implied consent from victims so many seem to feel must be present in cases of pedastry. What would you have us do? Ask child sex abuse victims when they began to have pubic hair, etc.?

Beyond that, martybegan, my point is that although pedophila can and does happen almost anywhere, there has never been an organized gang of baby rapers and their cover-up artists to compare to the RCC. No one is running around US Swimming trying to intimidate victims of sex abuse into silence. No one is moving Republicans from state to state so they can abuse more minors. The high school teacher will lose her license to teach if found guilty.

No one is engaging in behavior that frustrates the prosecution of these criminals EXCEPT the heirarchy of the RCC.

I disagree on there not being a hard fast line. I can recall no culture that ever condoned true pedophillia. On the other hand pederastic relationships of a homosexual nature turn up in Ancient Greek culture, and what we call inappropriate relationships gender wise of a heterosexual nature was the norm for many cultures.

How the RCC chuch has handled this is pretty stupid, and may border on criminal in some cases, that I can agree on. But I am sure there are other cases not involving the Church with just as much bzyantine plots and cover ups, the thing is we really dont hear about them.

What i dont agree on is your "Baby Raper" line. To me that implies a hostility to the Church that goes beyond your issues with the Pederasty troubles we are experiencing.

Your "moving around people" line does have merit however. Again, I am not in disagreement that civially or even criminally liable things were done.

 

[industry7]

There's no hard and fast line between pedophilia (sexual desire in an adult for the use of child with no secondary sex characteristics) and pedastry (sexual desire in an adult for an adolescent under the age of consent).

The line seems pretty straightforward to me. If you want to have sex with kids who are not physically sexually mature, you're a pedophile. If you want to have sex with kids who are physically sexually mature, you're a pederast. Both are wrong, and both should be punished harshly. I don't know any people with either desire, so I can't say how many people with one disease also have the other. But I do know that any time sex is involved, sex hormones are too. Sex criminals (rapists, pedophiles, etc, but not public urination unintentional exposure, etc) should be given a life sentence, with the option of parole requiring "voluntary" castration (or the equivalent in cases of female offenders). If castration is chosen by the convicted, they have the option of either surgical, or chemical with the requirement that treatment be administered by a doctor with an LEO supervising and documenting the treatment. Treatment cannot be discontinued for any reason what-so-ever, excepting in the case of exoneration of the convicted.

Many people have claimed that castration is not affective, but so far in all the case studies that I've seen, treatment was effective up until the point at which it was discontinued. Usually the treatment is self administered without supervision, and the convicted simply stopped taking it. In other cases, treatment was administrated by a doctor, but later discontinued based on a doctor's recommendation. I have never seen a case of surgical castration failing to prevent repeat offenses.

This is really just simple biology. Sexual desire, regardless of how abnormal a form it takes, is always fueled and supported by sex hormones. That's just the way our bodies work. The celibate cannot simply flip a switch and turn these hormones and desires off. Is this an excuse for criminal behavior though? No. But since we know these issues are not isolated to the catholic church, we need to see the bigger picture in terms of treatment of these criminals and the safety of our children.

 

[konradv]

If you disagree with catholicisms view on celibacy, don't believe in their Church.

Why? Preistly celibacy isn't an article of faith.

 

[Madeline]

If you disagree with catholicisms view on celibacy, don't believe in their Church.

Why? Preistly celibacy isn't an article of faith.

Depends upon how you view matters, konradv. Some priests will tell you that in order to be a Catholic in good standing, you must believe the entire Catechism. Others say you need only believe in the Trinity, transmorfigation and the Pope's infallability. But such priests as this are very far and few between.