The Catholic Church and HealthCare.... What if the Bishops Aren't Bluffing?

[Katzndogz]

Close the hospitals force everyone into county or government hospitals. Close the schools, force the kids into public schools. This was the intent all along. Contraception is just a convenient vehicle to enable more government control and women are too stupid and too gullible to not recognize it.

 

[Si modo]

You made a claim. I am asking you to support it. But you can't, obviously. And your need to resort to profanity is amusing.

If I understand what you are asking, you want to know is the Catholic hospitals actually own the real estate upon which their hospital is.

I may be mistaken, but that is my understanding of your question. Please correct me if wrong.

So, I'm wondering what significance that has to much of anything. If they own the property, they own it. If they lease the real estate, I would imagine it is a long-term lease. And, if they lease the property, as long as they pay their lease, I doubt the landlord is going to care what they heck they do on that property, as long as it is not illegal or damaging to the property.

So, bottom line, why is that important information to know in this case?

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

My impression (and I could be wrong) is that they will shut their doors. They seem quite serious about this, and I can't blame them. As most know, I am not a Catholic (and I am not a Christian, just a theist), but, in this case, the Church has a better grasp of the US Constitution than the POTUS. From a constitutional standpoint, I agree with the Church that the POTUS is wrong. And the Church has the ability and means to make this point, not just with the hospitals.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Well, email them and ask. I'm not your personal wiki. Stop being so fucking lazy. If you want information.... ask them.

You made a claim. I am asking you to support it. But you can't, obviously. And your need to resort to profanity is amusing.

No, I already know.... because I make it my business to know. We own a lot of our facilities.... not all. Ain't no one gonna be taking our property away from us.

If you don't like profanity.... try not to be so fucking stupid.

California Girl the premise of your OP is that if the bishops wanted to no longer play nice in the sandbox than can just pack up their surgical toys and CSCAN machines and tongue depressors and hit the highway thus causing a healthcare crisis in the communities served.

The assets, buildings and land are for the most part, not the church's holdings. Thus the church may vacate the premises, lock the door and take the sign off the entry but the hospital would be positioned for market.

P.S. - I didn't say I didn't like swearing, I said I find your need to resort to it amusing. Any logical mind would know understand the difference.

 

[Si modo]

You made a claim. I am asking you to support it. But you can't, obviously. And your need to resort to profanity is amusing.

No, I already know.... because I make it my business to know. We own a lot of our facilities.... not all. Ain't no one gonna be taking our property away from us.

If you don't like profanity.... try not to be so fucking stupid.

California Girl the premise of your OP is that if the bishops wanted to no longer play nice in the sandbox than can just pack up their surgical toys and CSCAN machines and tongue depressors and hit the highway thus causing a healthcare crisis in the communities served.

The assets, buildings and land are for the most part, not the church's holdings. Thus the church may vacate the premises, lock the door and take the sign off the entry but the hospital would be positioned for market.

P.S. - I didn't say I didn't like swearing, I said I find your need to resort to it amusing. Any logical mind would know understand the difference.

I doubt they will vacate. The Church is determined to make a point.

 

[chanel]

Yep. Imagine if they threatened to shut down some of those uber liberals colleges like Georgetown or Fordham?

For the sake of argument, how long would the transition be for a government takeover of 1/3 of the hospitals in this country? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? 10 yrs? Hmmmm. A lot of death and disease in that time.

 

[California Girl]

Yep. Imagine if they threatened to shut down some of those uber liberals colleges like Georgetown or Fordham?

For the sake of argument, how long would the transition be for a government takeover of 1/3 of the hospitals in this country? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? 10 yrs? Hmmmm. A lot of death and disease in that time.

And.... who's gonna pay the shortfall? More taxes?

 

[California Girl]

You made a claim. I am asking you to support it. But you can't, obviously. And your need to resort to profanity is amusing.

No, I already know.... because I make it my business to know. We own a lot of our facilities.... not all. Ain't no one gonna be taking our property away from us.

If you don't like profanity.... try not to be so fucking stupid.

California Girl the premise of your OP is that if the bishops wanted to no longer play nice in the sandbox than can just pack up their surgical toys and CSCAN machines and tongue depressors and hit the highway thus causing a healthcare crisis in the communities served.

The assets, buildings and land are for the most part, not the church's holdings. Thus the church may vacate the premises, lock the door and take the sign off the entry but the hospital would be positioned for market.

P.S. - I didn't say I didn't like swearing, I said I find your need to resort to it amusing. Any logical mind would know understand the difference.

I seem to have to keep repeating shit for you....

Imagine the impact if these hospitals shut down, discounting the other 400-plus health centers and 1,500 specialized homes that the Catholic Church operates as part of its mission that would also disappear. Thanks to the economic models of these hospitals, no one will rush to buy them. One in six patients in the current system would have to vie for service in the remaining system, which would have to absorb almost $100 billion in costs each year to treat them. Over 120,000 beds would disappear from an already-stressed system.

I appreciate that you might not see the loss of such a vast amount of services as an issue... but America's poor would likely disagree with you. And they are the focus of our care.... not you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Here's is an interesting article from the Dayton Daily News from Feb. 11 of this year:

UD to re-evaluate contraception plan

It seems when a light exposes an issue it becomes uncomfortable, so now at least one Archbishop feels a need to refer the matter to, "Our moral theologians" and at the Catholic University of Dayton, "officials said Friday they are re-evaluating the university’s medical plan, which covers birth control pills and procedures including vasectomies and tubal ligations, as controversy continues to boil over whether a federal health care edict abridges religious freedom".

So, in the name of religious freedom the right of women and men to chose may be abridged, all because the Republican Party is solely focused on winning in November.

 

[uscitizen]

If I understand what you are asking, you want to know is the Catholic hospitals actually own the real estate upon which their hospital is.

I may be mistaken, but that is my understanding of your question. Please correct me if wrong.

So, I'm wondering what significance that has to much of anything. If they own the property, they own it. If they lease the real estate, I would imagine it is a long-term lease. And, if they lease the property, as long as they pay their lease, I doubt the landlord is going to care what they heck they do on that property, as long as it is not illegal or damaging to the property.

So, bottom line, why is that important information to know in this case?

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

My impression (and I could be wrong) is that they will shut their doors. They seem quite serious about this, and I can't blame them. As most know, I am not a Catholic (and I am not a Christian, just a theist), but, in this case, the Church has a better grasp of the US Constitution than the POTUS. From a constitutional standpoint, I agree with the Church that the POTUS is wrong. And the Church has the ability and means to make this point, not just with the hospitals.

So they will ignore their Christian mandate to help their fellow "man"?
Are they a business or a religion?

This whole thing seems to me like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of thing.

 

[Two Thumbs]

You made a claim. I am asking you to support it. But you can't, obviously. And your need to resort to profanity is amusing.

If I understand what you are asking, you want to know is the Catholic hospitals actually own the real estate upon which their hospital is.

I may be mistaken, but that is my understanding of your question. Please correct me if wrong.

So, I'm wondering what significance that has to much of anything. If they own the property, they own it. If they lease the real estate, I would imagine it is a long-term lease. And, if they lease the property, as long as they pay their lease, I doubt the landlord is going to care what they heck they do on that property, as long as it is not illegal or damaging to the property.

So, bottom line, why is that important information to know in this case?

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

Who would run it?

It takes thousands to run a hospital. And how could anyone just walk in and set up shop in a building they don't own or lease?

 

[California Girl]

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

My impression (and I could be wrong) is that they will shut their doors. They seem quite serious about this, and I can't blame them. As most know, I am not a Catholic (and I am not a Christian, just a theist), but, in this case, the Church has a better grasp of the US Constitution than the POTUS. From a constitutional standpoint, I agree with the Church that the POTUS is wrong. And the Church has the ability and means to make this point, not just with the hospitals.

So they will ignore their Christian mandate to help their fellow "man"?
Are they a business or a religion?

This whole thing seems to me like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of thing.

If they were a business, they wouldn't be hung up on breaching their doctrine. Twit.

We cannot break our faith for any man... even if that man happens to be a President. We don't answer to the President. We answer to God. God outranks your President.

 

[Si modo]

Here's is an interesting article from the Dayton Daily News from Feb. 11 of this year:

UD to re-evaluate contraception plan

It seems when a light exposes an issue it becomes uncomfortable, so now at least one Archbishop feels a need to refer the matter to, "Our moral theologians" and at the Catholic University of Dayton, "officials said Friday they are re-evaluating the university’s medical plan, which covers birth control pills and procedures including vasectomies and tubal ligations, as controversy continues to boil over whether a federal health care edict abridges religious freedom".

So, in the name of religious freedom the right of women and men to chose may be abridged, all because the Republican Party is solely focused on winning in November.

I wonder when the RCs flipped from supporting Obama in the last election to being against him.

The GOP made them do it?

Or, are they determined to protect their freedoms?

Personally, I go with the latter.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Most posters will know, I'm not a big fan of starting threads on media articles, but I'm making an exception for this one. Because the article is a really good one, and has a lot of very significant information contained within it.

So, Obama takes on the Catholic Church... what exactly does that mean? What if the Catholic Church was forced to close its doors? I know that many, particularly on the left, would like to see the Church (and other faith based providers) forced out in order to achieve their 'Nanny State' agenda.... but just take a few minutes to consider the impact of your goal.

• 12.6 percent of hospitals are run by the Catholic Church
• 15.6 percent of all admissions - Catholic Hospitals
• 14.5 percent of all hospital expenses
• a total for Catholic hospitals in 2010 of $98.6 billion

Catholic hospitals handle more than their share of Medicare (16.6 percent) and Medicaid (13.65) discharges, meaning that more than one in six seniors and disabled patients get attention from these hospitals, and more than one in every eight low-income patients as well. Almost a third (32 percent) of these hospitals are located in rural areas, where patients usually have few other options for care.

Catholic hospitals take a leading role in providing less-profitable services to patients. They lead the sector in breast cancer screenings, nutrition programs, trauma, geriatric services, and social work. In most of these areas, other non-profits come close, but hospitals run by state and local governments fall significantly off the pace. Where patients have trouble paying for care, Catholic hospitals cover more of the costs. For instance, Catholic Health Services in Florida provides free care to families below 200 percent of federal poverty line, accepting Medicaid reimbursements as payment in full, and caps costs at 20 percent of household income for families that fall between 200 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty line.

What if Catholic bishops aren’t bluffing? « Hot Air

Read the article. Then tell me it's a good thing to force the Churches out of providing services. We do it better, cheaper, and for those who are most vulnerable.

Since you seem to have all the facts and figures answer me this: How many vasectomies are done in Catholic hospitals and how many are paid for by the insurance carrier for those men who work for the Catholic Church?

Who gives a shit?

If you dearly want to know, there's this thing called google.

here Ill help you

Google

 

[California Girl]

Here's is an interesting article from the Dayton Daily News from Feb. 11 of this year:

UD to re-evaluate contraception plan

It seems when a light exposes an issue it becomes uncomfortable, so now at least one Archbishop feels a need to refer the matter to, "Our moral theologians" and at the Catholic University of Dayton, "officials said Friday they are re-evaluating the university’s medical plan, which covers birth control pills and procedures including vasectomies and tubal ligations, as controversy continues to boil over whether a federal health care edict abridges religious freedom".

So, in the name of religious freedom the right of women and men to chose may be abridged, all because the Republican Party is solely focused on winning in November.

This wasn't the GOP. It was the Catholic Church. They jumped on the bandwagon. Idiot.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Here's is an interesting article from the Dayton Daily News from Feb. 11 of this year:

UD to re-evaluate contraception plan

It seems when a light exposes an issue it becomes uncomfortable, so now at least one Archbishop feels a need to refer the matter to, "Our moral theologians" and at the Catholic University of Dayton, "officials said Friday they are re-evaluating the university’s medical plan, which covers birth control pills and procedures including vasectomies and tubal ligations, as controversy continues to boil over whether a federal health care edict abridges religious freedom".

So, in the name of religious freedom the right of women and men to chose may be abridged, all because the Republican Party is solely focused on winning in November.

Wrong

go to another hospital. or pay out of pocket.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I am aware of the economic model/operating margins of both faith and non-faith based hospitals; not much a difference between the two, in fact some might say zero difference.

The cities will develop incentives to make the acquisitions attractive to neighboring systems so that these companies will step in to maintain operations. In doing so, the staff will most likely stay as they need their jobs, the infrastructure remains and the cities maintain the minimum need necessary to care for the people. Hectic and an added burden, yes but short term impact.

In reference to underserved who will go without care, California passed a law stating no party can be turned from an emergency room. Albeit a burden to the state, it has implemented a care providing landscape regardless of faith or not.

 

[uscitizen]

If I understand what you are asking, you want to know is the Catholic hospitals actually own the real estate upon which their hospital is.

I may be mistaken, but that is my understanding of your question. Please correct me if wrong.

So, I'm wondering what significance that has to much of anything. If they own the property, they own it. If they lease the real estate, I would imagine it is a long-term lease. And, if they lease the property, as long as they pay their lease, I doubt the landlord is going to care what they heck they do on that property, as long as it is not illegal or damaging to the property.

So, bottom line, why is that important information to know in this case?

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

Who would run it?

It takes thousands to run a hospital. And how could anyone just walk in and set up shop in a building they don't own or lease?

Do you seriously think that none of the employees would keep working for a new employer?
That all the employees in a catholic run hospital are devout catholics?

 

[California Girl]

Here's is an interesting article from the Dayton Daily News from Feb. 11 of this year:

UD to re-evaluate contraception plan

It seems when a light exposes an issue it becomes uncomfortable, so now at least one Archbishop feels a need to refer the matter to, "Our moral theologians" and at the Catholic University of Dayton, "officials said Friday they are re-evaluating the university’s medical plan, which covers birth control pills and procedures including vasectomies and tubal ligations, as controversy continues to boil over whether a federal health care edict abridges religious freedom".

So, in the name of religious freedom the right of women and men to chose may be abridged, all because the Republican Party is solely focused on winning in November.

I wonder when the RCs flipped from supporting Obama in the last election to being against him.

The GOP made them do it?

Or, are they determined to protect their freedoms?

Personally, I go with the latter.

The left keep ignoring that little fact.... 54% of Catholics voted for Obama. And the Church supported ObamaCare.... because Obama promised the Church that he would ensure that the bill was appropriate for their beliefs. Obama lied to our ArchBishop, now Cardinal, Dolan.

 

[koshergrl]

the church was willing to compromise so long as they thought they'd get special treatment.

That's what happens when you compromise principles. They're lucky God didn't send a plague.

 

[Si modo]

If the Catholics shut down the hospital. Will it really shut down or just be ran by someone else?

Who would run it?

It takes thousands to run a hospital. And how could anyone just walk in and set up shop in a building they don't own or lease?

Do you seriously think that none of the employees would keep working for a new employer?
That all the employees in a catholic run hospital are devout catholics?

Even if I am wrong and they don't just padlock their doors, there are two pieces of information that you should consider:

1. Most of the Catholic hospitals are in areas where others (private investors, other not-for-profit healthcare systems, etc.) will not be interested in, and;

2. If the other operator systems do happen to be interested in the site, they will provide lower quality healthcare for higher costs (according to the data I posted above).