The case for Universal Healthcare

[johnrocks]

Oh, please. I can't believe you people are actually accepting the absurd premise that Costa Rica actually has better health care than the United States, and arguing as though that nonsense is TRUE, and trying to find ways to explain it away, instead of just horselaughing at it and moving on as it deserves.

You dumbass liberals call me when rich people from around the world flock to Costa frigging Rica for lifesaving operations the way they do here. And tell me which airline YOU'D be taking there if you were diagnosed with brain cancer.

I was stating that the only way they did it was to dissolve the military,silly thing to do in this day and age. I support a free market approach,get government completly out of the equation.

The only way they did WHAT, precisely? Get better health care than we have? They didn't do that at all. Get cheaper health care? They did that by basically getting what they pay for. Get "greater longevity"? Doesn't have a damned thing to do with health care systems, and SURE as hell doesn't indicate that COSTA RICA has better health care than the UNITED STATES. I mean, just play that concept over in your mind a couple of times, and see if you can even keep a straight face while doing it.

I know you don't support universal health care, which is why I'm wondering why you and others like you are letting the asshats define the parameters of the debate for you to such a ludicrous notion. Why are you even trying to explain that "Costa Rica has better health care" instead of challenging that whole assertion?

Well, they can have good healthcare(not better than ours) but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

 

[AVG-JOE]

its going to be a HUGE undertaking to move this many people over.....listening to you guys your acting like one weeks tops and its done.....not one person including our Pres. is talking about the Scope of doing something like this,OR the problems that will be encountered to get this done.....but hey lets just rush into it,do it as fast as we can,and worry about the problems later.....meanwhile many are going to get FUCKED....not just that 40million that keeps floating around...

Many who are insured are getting fucked, by thinking they're covered. The insurance company screws them in the end, by refusing to pay.

Oh, spare me. You really want us to believe that whole cadres of people out there are getting turned down by their insurance companies for procedures clearly defined in their policies as covered, with no recourse but to suck it up? Prove it.

On the other hand, it is a known fact in medical billing circles that Medicare, run by our benevolent government, does not guarantee coverage for ANY service, and any service rendered to a patient on Medicare is being done totally on spec. They MIGHT pay for it when you send in the bill, they PROBABLY will, but they don't promise to, and they can decide not to pay and there's nothing you can do about it.

By all means, get us all health coverage like THAT.

Do you have a link, Cecille? I have heard that most respondents to polls are pretty happy with Medicare, but I haven't seen any recent articles on its performance.

Unlike Social Security, which is a truly public insurance bureaucracy, Medicare is a bit of a bastard hybrid between the private bureaucracies for profit and public funding - the biggest reason to oppose current reform.

I would like to see what you read about Medicare acting that much like one of the private bureaucracies.

Thanks!

-Joe

 

[Political Junky]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

One can't get treatment in Canada unless they have the Canadian Health Card. I do know of people who have had dental work done in Costa Rica.

And why was it that they went all the way to Costa Rica for dental care?

Because it's cheaper and of good quality.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Many who are insured are getting fucked, by thinking they're covered. The insurance company screws them in the end, by refusing to pay.

True. And it's not like you can take your business elsewhere, not with a pre-existing condition that was refused coverage by 'executive whim' at one of the private bureaucracies.

So much for 'choice'.

-Joe

Pre-existing conditions aren't refused coverage by "whim", you dimwit. You don't buy fire insurance AFTER your house burns down, or car insurance AFTER you get into a fender-bender, and even you wouldn't be dumb enough to expect the insurance company to go along with that. Only with health insurance are companies expected to force their other customers to cover your misfortune retroactively.

If you can't keep the personal insults to a minimum outside of Manifolds Sandbox, perhaps you should leave the political discussions to the adults...

It is not a question of retroactive coverage or coverage after the fact, it is a question of being able to change jobs or change insurance companies after you have been treated for something. I have first-hand knowledge of what a back injury in my 20's has done to my ability to buy health insurance now. If I injure my back in something as unrelated as a car accident, I am on my own.

-Joe

 

[Cecilie1200]

I was stating that the only way they did it was to dissolve the military,silly thing to do in this day and age. I support a free market approach,get government completly out of the equation.

The only way they did WHAT, precisely? Get better health care than we have? They didn't do that at all. Get cheaper health care? They did that by basically getting what they pay for. Get "greater longevity"? Doesn't have a damned thing to do with health care systems, and SURE as hell doesn't indicate that COSTA RICA has better health care than the UNITED STATES. I mean, just play that concept over in your mind a couple of times, and see if you can even keep a straight face while doing it.

I know you don't support universal health care, which is why I'm wondering why you and others like you are letting the asshats define the parameters of the debate for you to such a ludicrous notion. Why are you even trying to explain that "Costa Rica has better health care" instead of challenging that whole assertion?

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The only way they did WHAT, precisely? Get better health care than we have? They didn't do that at all. Get cheaper health care? They did that by basically getting what they pay for. Get "greater longevity"? Doesn't have a damned thing to do with health care systems, and SURE as hell doesn't indicate that COSTA RICA has better health care than the UNITED STATES. I mean, just play that concept over in your mind a couple of times, and see if you can even keep a straight face while doing it.

I know you don't support universal health care, which is why I'm wondering why you and others like you are letting the asshats define the parameters of the debate for you to such a ludicrous notion. Why are you even trying to explain that "Costa Rica has better health care" instead of challenging that whole assertion?

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

That doesn't sound like much fun... Where is your sense of adventure? It's not like you can actually get 'beat up' on the internet, eh?

What's the most you can loose..... an argument?

-Joe

 

[Navy1960]

As Surgeon General, I welcome this chance to talk with you about a health crisis affecting every state, every city, every community, and every school across our great nation.

The crisis is obesity. It’s the fastest-growing cause of disease and death in America. And it’s completely preventable.

Nearly two out of every three Americans are overweight or obese.
One out of every eight deaths in America is caused by an illness directly related to overweight and obesity.
Think of it this way: statistics tell us that of the 20 members serving on this subcommittee, at least two will die because of a completely preventable illness related to overweight or obesity. Because of overweight or obesity, two of you will spend less time serving your communities and enjoying your children and grandchildren.

America’s children are already seeing the initial consequences of a lack of physical activity and unhealthy eating habits. Fortunately, there is still time to reverse this dangerous trend in our children’s lives.

Let’s start with the good news: I am pleased to be able to report that most of America’s children are healthy.

Overall, 82 percent of our nation’s 70 million children are in very good or excellent health. Infant mortality is at an all-time low, childhood immunization is at an all-time high. Our children are less likely to smoke, and less likely to give birth as teenagers.

These are important gains in pediatric health.

But the bad news is that an unprecedented number of children are carrying excess body weight. That excess weight significantly increases our kids’ risk factors for a range of health problems, including diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and emotional and mental health problems.
The Obesity Crisis in America

According to the World Health Organization, 45,100 people died in automobile accidents in the United States in 2002, which made the United States rank fourth in that category. China ranked first, with 250,000 automobile accident deaths.
The U.S. ranks 4th in automobile accident deaths « Ranking America

Traffic accidents have claimed 32 million lives around the world since the late 19th century, outnumbering war deaths and ranking as "the No.1 public threat to human society", according to information released during a recent international symposium held in the Chinese capital
Traffic Accidents Rank as World's No.1 Killer | Article from Xinhua English Newswire | HighBeam Research

Fact 1: 75% of the health problems presented to Medical Doctors in the United States are stress related illness, caused by emotional stress (statistic from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Not only is most illness stress related (caused by stress), stress also destroys the body's ability to repair itself and to fight disease. Stress management can help you to avoid these health problems!

Stress Related Illness


The effects of urbanisation, low income and rejuvenation of the population on life expectancy at birth and at 20, 40 and 65 years of age for males and females in Japan were examined twice, in 1980 and 1985. For males, urbanisation was the major factor determining life expectancy at birth and at age 20 years, and low income was the key determinant of decreased life expectancy except at 65 years of age. For females high income was the factor significantly decreasing life expectancy at 65 years of age in 1980, and rejuvenation of the population inversely influenced life expectancy except at birth in 1985. Life expectancy for all age groups in 1985 was significantly longer than in 1980 for both males and females.

(Received November 08 1990)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CJO - Abstract - Socioeconomic factors affecting the longevity of the Japanese population: a study for 1980 and 1985

Well, the outcome predicted by progressive critics since the Massachusetts Chapter 58 health care "reform" plan was passed into law in 2006 is now getting closer and closer to becoming reality as the board of the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority voted to cut $115 million from the program's 2010 budget this week. These critics - backers of a single-payer universal health care plan at both the state and federal levels like MassCARE - said that the main beneficiaries of the plan were the insurance companies and that it would therefore be structurally incapable of ever covering all Massachusetts residents. They also, ironically, made the kind of cost-benefit arguments generally advanced by fiscal conservatives - pointing to major studies, one of which was commissioned by the Commonwealth in 2002 - that clearly demonstrated a single-payer system would be far more cost-effective than an expansion of Medicare or the kind of individually-based plan we ultimately got.

Before and after the plan was enacted, the critics pointed out that the state was pursuing a course that had no cost controls and did nothing to attempt to stem health care premiums that private insurance companies have been increasing virtually unchecked year after year. They further stated that basing a system that should be guaranteeing health care as a universal human right on a market-based system that forced individuals to buy overpriced private plans, penalized all but the poorest if they failed to do so, and mandated that the state pay insurers ruinous prices to offer minimal coverage to said poor residents - looting the existing, and fairly comprehensive, publicly-funded community hospital based free care system in the process to attempt to pay for it - was a very bad alternative to a single-payer system that pushed private insurers out of the picture and paid for all health care costs out of a single taxpayer-funded government pool.
Bad Massachusetts Health Care Plan in Bad Trouble | Open Media Boston


The funny thing about myths and facts when they are shown correctly and not in short form where the numbers are meaningless then the picture becomes a little more clear. In fact there are many reasons that this nations healthcare system according to the WHO has gotten poor marks not the least of which I have mosted here. So when you make blanket statements , please be sure and present the whole picture and not something that you hope would condemn the medical community or the insurance industry. Further as correctly pointed out, the posters original assertion is flawed from the beginning in that it assumes that healthcare is a "right" which it clearly is not. It would seem that those who advocate it as such would spend more time making it one and less time trying to force it upon this nation through a process in which it is not currently constitutionally supported.

 

[Old Rocks]

The only way they did WHAT, precisely? Get better health care than we have? They didn't do that at all. Get cheaper health care? They did that by basically getting what they pay for. Get "greater longevity"? Doesn't have a damned thing to do with health care systems, and SURE as hell doesn't indicate that COSTA RICA has better health care than the UNITED STATES. I mean, just play that concept over in your mind a couple of times, and see if you can even keep a straight face while doing it.

I know you don't support universal health care, which is why I'm wondering why you and others like you are letting the asshats define the parameters of the debate for you to such a ludicrous notion. Why are you even trying to explain that "Costa Rica has better health care" instead of challenging that whole assertion?

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

Well, Cissy, Costa Rica has a system that covers everybody, and, if you can afford it, you can also get private insurance. Their overall health, longevity, infant mortality, is right up there with the top nations, nations which do not include the US. They do this in spite of the fact that the average income is only one tenth of that of the US. In longevity, they are third, behind Japan and France. They are also ranked as the most satisfied people on earth.

Costa Rica - Health Care

The Costa Rican healthcare system is rated very highly on an international level, and the country’s citizens enjoy the health and life expectancy equal to that of more developed nations. These accolades come courtesy of strong, universal health insurance and excellent public and private hospitals.



Public Health Care - Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS)

Costa Rica’s public health insurance system, commonly known as the Caja, is available country-wide to all citizens and legal residents. There are ten major public hospitals – four in San Jose, including the Children’s Hospital – affiliated with the Caja. For non-emergencies and everyday medical care, small clinics, known as EBAIS (pronounced ay-vy-ice), are located in almost every community.

The cost to affiliate with CCSS is approximately 13% of your income; alternatively, residents may become members via ARCR, which provides a streamlined and simple joining process. Please note that for those under age 55, Caja payments include a mandatory pension payment, which will be disbursed beginning at age 65. Keep in mind that the Caja’s low cost and high quality attract many to its hospitals and clinics, and wait times are long for anything from a routine checkup to an important surgical procedure.



Private Insurance

Note: Before the 2008 ratification of CAFTA (the Central American Free Trade Agreement), Costa Rica operated under a government-owned monopoly insurance system. In 2009, international insurance providers will begin to offer health insurance within Costa Rica.

Costa Rica’s private hospitals and clinics offer high-quality medical care at a tiny fraction of its U.S. equivalent cost. In fact, due to Costa Rica’s beautiful surroundings, medical reputation and very lost costs, the country is rapidly becoming a prime destination for medical tourism.

As of late 2008, private insurance is available through INS, the government-owned insurance monopoly. Most plans cover dental work, optometry, and cosmetic surgery in the case of an accident, and neither pre-existing conditions nor annual check-ups are included. Prescription drugs, certain medical exams, sick visits and hospitalization are covered at 70% cost, and surgeon and aesthetician costs are covered at full cost. Currently, private medical insurance costs about $50-$100/month per person, depending on age, gender and other factors.

 

[Old Rocks]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

Oh, yeah. Costa Rica and its state-of-the-art medical establishment is a health care and surgical mecca for the world, dontcha know. Sick billionaires the world over rush there to be treated, and we ALL know hospitals everywhere are clamoring to hire doctors that graduate from Costa Rican medical schools, and top doctors from every country are fighting to get jobs there . . . in American Leftist Bizarro World. I swear, every liberal in this country must be having LSD flashbacks from the sixties, or smoking crack now, or both.

Good point.
Didn't Ted Kennedy go to Duke University in NC for his treatment?
Now why the heck didn't he go to Costa Rica?
I'll patiently wait for Old Rocks or Chris to explain that.

OK, not a problem;

Two well-known private hospitals, Clinica Biblica and Clinica Catolica,
where many CCSS doctors practice in the afternoons and evenings, offer
first-class, ultra modern services.

Affiliated with U.S. hospitals, these two private providers, have costs
somewhat higher than the public providers, but still way below anything
found in the States. Most Costa Rican doctors and dentists receive their
basic medical training in Costa Rica. From here, they travel far and wide,
seeking specialized training from the finest teaching hospitals in the
world, often becoming certified in their specialties, in the countries where
they receive their advanced training.

It is not uncommon to find a Costa Rican doctor or dentist, speaking several languages, all learned, while pursuing advanced degrees in foreign countries.
Perhaps it is the CCSS work or the varied travel and study that does it, but
the caring expressed by the doctors and dentists, throughout the country, is
noteworthy in its extreme.

In 1991, two economists from the University of Costa Rica, conducted a survey,
of visitors to this country. Their findings, documented in the study, indicated
that 14.25% of all visitors, came for the express purpose, of receiving medical
care of some type.

Over the years, Costa Rica has attracted those in search of uplifting cosmetic surgery. People from around the world, arrive daily to partake of the healing
waters in over 100 thermal and mineral springs located here.

Dental work, from fillings to implants, is done routinely on people from every
corner of the world. Many people from Latin America plan for their medical
needs from hip replacement to heart valve replacement to be taken care of
by the well-trained and skillful physicians, in Costa Rica, rather than in their
native countries.

Clearly then, not only does Costa Rica offer universal health care coverage
to its citizens, but that same high quality care is available for people from
all over the world.

Costa Rica Health Care

 

[johnrocks]

The only way they did WHAT, precisely? Get better health care than we have? They didn't do that at all. Get cheaper health care? They did that by basically getting what they pay for. Get "greater longevity"? Doesn't have a damned thing to do with health care systems, and SURE as hell doesn't indicate that COSTA RICA has better health care than the UNITED STATES. I mean, just play that concept over in your mind a couple of times, and see if you can even keep a straight face while doing it.

I know you don't support universal health care, which is why I'm wondering why you and others like you are letting the asshats define the parameters of the debate for you to such a ludicrous notion. Why are you even trying to explain that "Costa Rica has better health care" instead of challenging that whole assertion?

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

And putting my fingers in my ears and yelling LA LA LA LA LA makes a better retort how? They had to totally freaking abolish their military is the point I'm trying to state,not that they have BETTER healthcare than us and if they do, so what, they had to put most of their resources into that one sector,that and education, their roads are notrotious, if you live on the coast,your 2-3 hoyrs away from a hospital etc. It would be like us dissolving our military,sure,we could use those resources to build 30000 hospitals and clinics in the USA but what good would that do if Russia invaded and took us over,they are also a POOR country compared to us;not that they are a poor country compared to THEIR neighbors ,their GDP is 48 billion dollars with 4 1/2 million people,there are States here with bigger economies, we have a GDP of 14 trillion and over 300 million people, we lost more than their entire GDP in the 4th quarter last year. Their median income is like $8000 while ours is like $40000, it's crazy to compare us to such a small place and if you can't see that I'm laughing AT the liberals for even bringing it up then what can I say but sorry for not being able to convey my message more clearly.

 

[johnrocks]

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

Well, Cissy, Costa Rica has a system that covers everybody, and, if you can afford it, you can also get private insurance. Their overall health, longevity, infant mortality, is right up there with the top nations, nations which do not include the US. They do this in spite of the fact that the average income is only one tenth of that of the US. In longevity, they are third, behind Japan and France. They are also ranked as the most satisfied people on earth.

Costa Rica - Health Care

The Costa Rican healthcare system is rated very highly on an international level, and the country’s citizens enjoy the health and life expectancy equal to that of more developed nations. These accolades come courtesy of strong, universal health insurance and excellent public and private hospitals.



Public Health Care - Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS)

Costa Rica’s public health insurance system, commonly known as the Caja, is available country-wide to all citizens and legal residents. There are ten major public hospitals – four in San Jose, including the Children’s Hospital – affiliated with the Caja. For non-emergencies and everyday medical care, small clinics, known as EBAIS (pronounced ay-vy-ice), are located in almost every community.

The cost to affiliate with CCSS is approximately 13% of your income; alternatively, residents may become members via ARCR, which provides a streamlined and simple joining process. Please note that for those under age 55, Caja payments include a mandatory pension payment, which will be disbursed beginning at age 65. Keep in mind that the Caja’s low cost and high quality attract many to its hospitals and clinics, and wait times are long for anything from a routine checkup to an important surgical procedure.



Private Insurance

Note: Before the 2008 ratification of CAFTA (the Central American Free Trade Agreement), Costa Rica operated under a government-owned monopoly insurance system. In 2009, international insurance providers will begin to offer health insurance within Costa Rica.

Costa Rica’s private hospitals and clinics offer high-quality medical care at a tiny fraction of its U.S. equivalent cost. In fact, due to Costa Rica’s beautiful surroundings, medical reputation and very lost costs, the country is rapidly becoming a prime destination for medical tourism.

As of late 2008, private insurance is available through INS, the government-owned insurance monopoly. Most plans cover dental work, optometry, and cosmetic surgery in the case of an accident, and neither pre-existing conditions nor annual check-ups are included. Prescription drugs, certain medical exams, sick visits and hospitalization are covered at 70% cost, and surgeon and aesthetician costs are covered at full cost. Currently, private medical insurance costs about $50-$100/month per person, depending on age, gender and other factors.

And they gave up their military to do it,also diet plays a large role with them as well as the Japanese,their (Japan) main diet consists of a lot of fish and they are rarely obese,unlike us who has a love affair with McDonald's and where obesity consumes 9% of each healthcare dollar.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Many who are insured are getting fucked, by thinking they're covered. The insurance company screws them in the end, by refusing to pay.

Oh, spare me. You really want us to believe that whole cadres of people out there are getting turned down by their insurance companies for procedures clearly defined in their policies as covered, with no recourse but to suck it up? Prove it.

On the other hand, it is a known fact in medical billing circles that Medicare, run by our benevolent government, does not guarantee coverage for ANY service, and any service rendered to a patient on Medicare is being done totally on spec. They MIGHT pay for it when you send in the bill, they PROBABLY will, but they don't promise to, and they can decide not to pay and there's nothing you can do about it.

By all means, get us all health coverage like THAT.

Do you have a link, Cecille? I have heard that most respondents to polls are pretty happy with Medicare, but I haven't seen any recent articles on its performance.

Unlike Social Security, which is a truly public insurance bureaucracy, Medicare is a bit of a bastard hybrid between the private bureaucracies for profit and public funding - the biggest reason to oppose current reform.

I would like to see what you read about Medicare acting that much like one of the private bureaucracies.

Thanks!

-Joe

Not everything in life is "I read it online". In this case, it's common knowledge among medical insurance billers, and taught in schools that train medical insurance billers. I know it because I graduated from such a school, although I subsequently chose not to go into the field, and because my older sister has worked as a medical insurance biller for nearly twenty years. Please feel free to call your own doctor's office and ask his billing specialist if you don't believe me. I could cite you the textbook, but unless you have a copy of it, that probably won't help you much.

I am laughing my ass off at your pompous little "so much like private bureaucracies" dodge. Private medical insurance companies do NOT act that way. They can't by law, and it's a freaking joke for you to try to deflect that way. You have a legally-binding contract with your insurance provider in which they have legally obligated themselves to cover certain procedures under certain circumstances. If they are denying a claim, it is because they have found some way or another in which to claim that it does not meet the specifications of the contract, and you not only have the right to appeal the decision to the company, you also have the legal right to sue them for breach of contract. You may not win, but you DO have that legal right.

Medicare, on the other hand, has no such contract and no such legal obligation. They reserve the right to refuse any claim they deem appropriate, and while you can appeal the decision up the ladder in the Medicare bureaucracy, you have no legal right to sue them, since you have no contractual right to their services in the first place.

 

[Cecilie1200]

True. And it's not like you can take your business elsewhere, not with a pre-existing condition that was refused coverage by 'executive whim' at one of the private bureaucracies.

So much for 'choice'.

-Joe

Pre-existing conditions aren't refused coverage by "whim", you dimwit. You don't buy fire insurance AFTER your house burns down, or car insurance AFTER you get into a fender-bender, and even you wouldn't be dumb enough to expect the insurance company to go along with that. Only with health insurance are companies expected to force their other customers to cover your misfortune retroactively.

If you can't keep the personal insults to a minimum outside of Manifolds Sandbox, perhaps you should leave the political discussions to the adults...

It is not a question of retroactive coverage or coverage after the fact, it is a question of being able to change jobs or change insurance companies after you have been treated for something. I have first-hand knowledge of what a back injury in my 20's has done to my ability to buy health insurance now. If I injure my back in something as unrelated as a car accident, I am on my own.

-Joe

If you can't keep the attempts at dodging to a minimum, perhaps you should leave the political discussions to the adults. If I wanted to hear, "You're mean!" I'd go to a kindergarten playground.

It IS a question of retroactive coverage. You contract cancer and THEN want to get medical insurance so that my premiums can pay for the disaster that has already befallen you.

I'm very sorry for you that sustaining chronic physical damage makes your life more difficult ever after, but that is not my fault or the fault of the insurance companies, nor does it obligate either of us to join you in your suffering. To put it bluntly, if you injure your back in ANY way, you're on your own, because NONE of those ways are my fault.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

That doesn't sound like much fun... Where is your sense of adventure? It's not like you can actually get 'beat up' on the internet, eh?

What's the most you can loose..... an argument?

-Joe

My self-respect for being dumb enough to accept stupidity as reality in the first place. Only a fool says, "Okay, I'll accept that you're absolutely right, and THEN start arguing from that premise".

You want to debate, you get to start by arguing the parameters of the debate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

tell your U.S. Representative and Senators that you OPPOSE the absolutely unaffordable government takeover of healthcare being pushed right now by President Obama and Democratic leaders of Congress.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, they can have better healthcare but the thing is,they can't have both "guns and butter", there are several variables from resource allocation of which I am referring to,to their lifestyle such as their diet of more fruits and fish as opposed to red meat and fast food,their tropical climate and even their median income which is less than $10000 per year which means they are a pretty poor country and that is why I can actually take advantage of that and have dental implants for $3000 instead of $20000 here or whatever.

In other words, saying Costa Rico is a great example is laughable to me since they have had to give up so much more in order to have this one "shining star" and I will give them that since they are still a third world country,I'll also go there for dental implants,it's called comparative advantage and it's in my pocket book's interest to check it out.

They do NOT have better health care. Would you stop for a second and think about what you're saying? You're actually suggesting that there's some serious validity to the idea that Costa Rica - COSTA RICA - has better health care than the United States of America. That is utterly freaking INSANE. You are actually, seriously arguing that "Costa Rica's health care is better than ours, but only because . . ." Put down whatever you're drinking, because someone has spiked it with liberal Kool-Aid while you weren't looking.

There is no point whatsoever in listing all these reasons of yours for whatever point you're trying to make, because it's a ridiculous point to even waste time making, because it's predicated on the assumption that a so-called "factual assertion" made by the leftist airheads is actually factual instead of being the product of whatever genetic brain damage they all share.

First rule of debating leftists: never, EVER let them choose the playing field or set the parameters of the argument.

And putting my fingers in my ears and yelling LA LA LA LA LA makes a better retort how? They had to totally freaking abolish their military is the point I'm trying to state,not that they have BETTER healthcare than us and if they do, so what, they had to put most of their resources into that one sector,that and education, their roads are notrotious, if you live on the coast,your 2-3 hoyrs away from a hospital etc. It would be like us dissolving our military,sure,we could use those resources to build 30000 hospitals and clinics in the USA but what good would that do if Russia invaded and took us over,they are also a POOR country compared to us;not that they are a poor country compared to THEIR neighbors ,their GDP is 48 billion dollars with 4 1/2 million people,there are States here with bigger economies, we have a GDP of 14 trillion and over 300 million people, we lost more than their entire GDP in the 4th quarter last year. Their median income is like $8000 while ours is like $40000, it's crazy to compare us to such a small place and if you can't see that I'm laughing AT the liberals for even bringing it up then what can I say but sorry for not being able to convey my message more clearly.

I'm not suggesting that you put your fingers in your ears and yell. I'm suggesting you engage your brain and question the idiotic assertions they put forth, rather than simply accepting them, which is tantamount to starting the battle after you've already surrendered.

But hey, if you want to go through life with the position that leftists automatically win before you even get out of the gate, go ahead. If you really want to debate healthcare by saying, "Okay, you guys are right and everyone else's healthcare is better than ours, but here's why it's not QUITE as much better as you say it is", that's your lookout. I see no point in it, but then, I don't drink the Kool-Aid.

 

[Political Junky]

Old Rocks just proved you wrong, so you insulted him.

You don't have the balls to admit you are wrong.

It can be done but please consider what size Costa Rico is and also,they have NO military, if we did that, we could provide healthcare,we might be speaking Chinese but we could do it I suppose.

Oh, please. I can't believe you people are actually accepting the absurd premise that Costa Rica actually has better health care than the United States, and arguing as though that nonsense is TRUE, and trying to find ways to explain it away, instead of just horselaughing at it and moving on as it deserves.

You dumbass liberals call me when rich people from around the world flock to Costa frigging Rica for lifesaving operations the way they do here. And tell me which airline YOU'D be taking there if you were diagnosed with brain cancer.

Medical tourism is a thriving business. Costa Rica is one of the destinations.

Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cecilie1200]

It can be done but please consider what size Costa Rico is and also,they have NO military, if we did that, we could provide healthcare,we might be speaking Chinese but we could do it I suppose.

Oh, please. I can't believe you people are actually accepting the absurd premise that Costa Rica actually has better health care than the United States, and arguing as though that nonsense is TRUE, and trying to find ways to explain it away, instead of just horselaughing at it and moving on as it deserves.

You dumbass liberals call me when rich people from around the world flock to Costa frigging Rica for lifesaving operations the way they do here. And tell me which airline YOU'D be taking there if you were diagnosed with brain cancer.

Medical tourism is a thriving business. Costa Rica is one of the destinations.

Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Leaving aside my horselaugh concerning Wikipedia as a source, you are quite correct that Costa Rica is a very popular site for medical tourism . . . from other Latin American countries.

No one disputes that Costa Rica does very well in medicine . . . for a developing nation. The dispute is with the utterly ludicrous idea that they're superior to the United States. And don't think for a second that I don't know that the reason why leftists have switched from proudly pointing to countries like Canada and Great Britain and started touting Costa Rica is because too damned much information became available about those other countries, and no one knows much about Costa Rica yet. As soon as more in-depth information becomes available about THIS socialized-medicine nation du jour, you'll just switch to another one and try to continue coasting on ignorance.

 

[Political Junky]

Oh, please. I can't believe you people are actually accepting the absurd premise that Costa Rica actually has better health care than the United States, and arguing as though that nonsense is TRUE, and trying to find ways to explain it away, instead of just horselaughing at it and moving on as it deserves.

You dumbass liberals call me when rich people from around the world flock to Costa frigging Rica for lifesaving operations the way they do here. And tell me which airline YOU'D be taking there if you were diagnosed with brain cancer.

Medical tourism is a thriving business. Costa Rica is one of the destinations.

Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Leaving aside my horselaugh concerning Wikipedia as a source, you are quite correct that Costa Rica is a very popular site for medical tourism . . . from other Latin American countries.

No one disputes that Costa Rica does very well in medicine . . . for a developing nation. The dispute is with the utterly ludicrous idea that they're superior to the United States. And don't think for a second that I don't know that the reason why leftists have switched from proudly pointing to countries like Canada and Great Britain and started touting Costa Rica is because too damned much information became available about those other countries, and no one knows much about Costa Rica yet. As soon as more in-depth information becomes available about THIS socialized-medicine nation du jour, you'll just switch to another one and try to continue coasting on ignorance.

Well, at least you softened your opinion in that "Costa Rica does very well in medicine". The article mentions at least a dozen popular countries for medical tourism.
You don't like Wikipedia for some reason .. try this:
Medical Tourism Association-The first International Non-profit Association, World Medical Tourism and Global Health Congress, San Francisco on September 2008

 

[Cecilie1200]

Medical tourism is a thriving business. Costa Rica is one of the destinations.

Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Leaving aside my horselaugh concerning Wikipedia as a source, you are quite correct that Costa Rica is a very popular site for medical tourism . . . from other Latin American countries.

No one disputes that Costa Rica does very well in medicine . . . for a developing nation. The dispute is with the utterly ludicrous idea that they're superior to the United States. And don't think for a second that I don't know that the reason why leftists have switched from proudly pointing to countries like Canada and Great Britain and started touting Costa Rica is because too damned much information became available about those other countries, and no one knows much about Costa Rica yet. As soon as more in-depth information becomes available about THIS socialized-medicine nation du jour, you'll just switch to another one and try to continue coasting on ignorance.

Well, at least you softened your opinion in that "Costa Rica does very well in medicine". The article mentions at least a dozen popular countries for medical tourism.
You don't like Wikipedia for some reason .. try this:
Medical Tourism Association-The first International Non-profit Association, World Medical Tourism and Global Health Congress, San Francisco on September 2008

I didn't soften anything. I never said Costa Rica's medical establishment was bad in the first place. I said it was completely ridiculous to suggest that it's superior to the United States, and I still say that.

I don't like Wikipedia as a source because it's written and edited by any reader who cares to do so. As such, it's not reliable, much less an "encyclopedia" of any sort. For the record, I am equally unimpressed by the Medical Tourism Association as a source, since I have no way of really knowing anything about them or what axes the people behind it might have to grind. Anyone can set up an official Association for anything. Doesn't make them reliable and trustworthy as a source of info.