The case for Universal Healthcare

[Bern80]

Truth be told though, I would be happier with a truly public option, similar to Social Security because coverage decisions would have nothing to do with current stock price and Social Security conserves or pays out 99% of premiums collected, compared to the private bureaucracies which pay out or conserve only 75%.

-Joe

I'm with ya right up to about here. Don't you think the same problems that social security has/is going to have, in a few years would rear its head in health care.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Truth be told though, I would be happier with a truly public option, similar to Social Security because coverage decisions would have nothing to do with current stock price and Social Security conserves or pays out 99% of premiums collected, compared to the private bureaucracies which pay out or conserve only 75%.

-Joe

I'm with ya right up to about here. Don't you think the same problems that social security has/is going to have, in a few years would rear its head in health care.

Not if congress is put on the EXACT SAME PLAN as the rest of us.

In 1984, all newly hired federal employees, including congresscritters, were put on Social Security and Civil Service began to be grandfathered out. As soon as the deadwood critters hired pre-1984, especially those in the leadership like Ted Kennedy, are replaced, expect to see Social Security get shored up pretty fast. They'll have... incentive.

-Joe

 

[Chris]

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money.

What liberal left wing did you come from that you totally fabricated your own facts and are completely ignorant of the true facts? And what makes you think this health care system isn't going to cost you out the ass. The government doesn't have it's own money and if you want to get your health care for free then somebody else had to pay for it, so I guess that means your on welfare too. The government is already running three health care programs, medicare, medicade and the VA and they have screwed them up so do you think they can run this new healthcare system?

What fabricated facts?

Every other industrialized nation has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone. Why? Because a single payer system is more efficient.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

 

[johnrocks]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

And Costa Rico does not even have a military,the others get us to pay for their socialized medical care by proxy since they know we'll defend their ass so they send less of their GNP on defense and more on infrastructure and other things like healthcare.

 

[Chris]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

This one always cracks me up.

Oh...we can't do it because we have too many people!

Bullshit.

Every other industrialized nation has a single payer healthcare system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. That means that if we used a single payer system, that we would actually be paying LESS for healthcare than we are paying now because a single payer system is more efficient.

 

[Oddball]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

 

[Harry Dresden]

What fabricated facts?

Every other industrialized nation has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone. Why? Because a single payer system is more efficient.

wish i had a 100 bucks for every time he mentions this.....

 

[Oscar Wao]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

This one always cracks me up.

Oh...we can't do it because we have too many people!

Bullshit.

Every other industrialized nation has a single payer healthcare system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. That means that if we used a single payer system, that we would actually be paying LESS for healthcare than we are paying now because a single payer system is more efficient.

Sorry, but I'm not falling for your one-track pony arguments.

Your last paragraph is a reiteration of the post I responded to.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

that does not enter into anyones line of reasoning Oscar.....these guys think moving 300 million people over is a piece of cake.....just a swipe of the pen....and when you wake up the next day....WELLA ...we have NHC.....

 

[Oscar Wao]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

With the way we're going, that might become commonplace in the future...

 

[Oddball]

What fabricated facts?

Every other industrialized nation has a single payer system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone. Why? Because a single payer system is more efficient.

wish i had a 100 bucks for every time he mentions this fabricated "fact".....

Fixed.

 

[johnrocks]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

Look at the median income too there, it's like $8000 a year,yeah,I'm all over that "Utopia".

 

[Oscar Wao]

Oh...we can't do it because we have too many people!

Bullshit.

Nice to know reality is bullshit!

 

[Oscar Wao]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

that does not enter into anyones line of reasoning Oscar.....these guys think moving 300 million people over is a piece of cake.....just a swipe of the pen....and when you wake up the next day....WELLA ...we have NHC.....

Heh, I know.

And whether or not we had 300 mill, 10 mill, 1 mill, or even a population of 30, our economy can't handle it...and it would destroy the spirit of competition.

(Name's Paul, BTW...)

 

[johnrocks]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

that does not enter into anyones line of reasoning Oscar.....these guys think moving 300 million people over is a piece of cake.....just a swipe of the pen....and when you wake up the next day....WELLA ...we have NHC.....

Heh, I know.

And whether or not we had 300 mill, 10 mill, 1 mill, or even a population of 30, our economy can't handle it...and it would destroy the spirit of competition.

(Name's Paul, BTW...)

And don't forget Canada which only has 33 million people and five million Canadians do not have a family doctor. One million patients are on waiting lists for care. And look how long they've had UHC.

 

[Political Junky]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

One can't get treatment in Canada unless they have the Canadian Health Card. I do know of people who have had dental work done in Costa Rica.

 

[johnrocks]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

One can't get treatment in Canada unless they have the Canadian Health Card. I do know of people who have had dental work done in Costa Rica.

I'm seriously thinking of doing that myself. (implants)

 

[Oddball]

Anybody heard of anyone leaving America to go to Costa Rica or Canada for a heart transplant or cancer treatment??

One can't get treatment in Canada unless they have the Canadian Health Card.

There you have it.

 

[editec]

Do you also forget that a lot of these countries are smaller in population?

Do you not understand the concept of per capita comparisons, Oscar?