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Manhattan is an ancient term too. So all the people who live there now are entitled to on the law of return. Right?
All the people that live in Manhattan now are entitled to live there, yes. What would return have to do with it? They're already there, just like the Palestinians. Don't really get what you're driving at!
Manhattan is an ancient term too. So all the people who live there now are entitled to on the law of return. Right?
All the people that live in Manhattan now are entitled to live there, yes. What would return have to do with it? They're already there, just like the Palestinians. Don't really get what you're driving at!
The palestinians aren't living there. They are living who knows where and insisting on a right of return to Tel Aviv and Haifa and other places they never lived or didnnt exist when they were there.
All of this is irrelevant to the basic point that the Palestinians are not prepared for self governance and a Pali state would make matters worse in the region not better. The PA currently is on the verge of bankruptcy owing to its kleptocracy.
All the people that live in Manhattan now are entitled to live there, yes. What would return have to do with it? They're already there, just like the Palestinians. Don't really get what you're driving at!
The palestinians aren't living there. They are living who knows where and insisting on a right of return to Tel Aviv and Haifa and other places they never lived or didnnt exist when they were there.
All of this is irrelevant to the basic point that the Palestinians are not prepared for self governance and a Pali state would make matters worse in the region not better. The PA currently is on the verge of bankruptcy owing to its kleptocracy.
There are plenty of Palestinians living in Palestine. What are you talking about? As for where they lived previously, Haifa did exist and Jaffa and Nazareth. It's not for you to decide what sort of government they have. That's their problem. The only issue is were there Palestinians prior to 1948 and history will tell you there definitely were.
They are living who knows where and insisting on a right of return to Tel Aviv and Haifa and other places they never lived or didnnt exist when they were there.
They are living who knows where and insisting on a right of return to Tel Aviv and Haifa and other places they never lived or didnnt exist when they were there.
I'm not sure how well you know these areas, but Akko is an old Palestinian city clearly visible from the Haifa docs. Ditto Yaffo, which is right at the south end of the main Tel Aviv beaches.
Rabbi -
You are quite right - both Haifa and Tel Aviv are new, Jewish cities.
It's just worth keeping in mind that were founded literally within sight of where Palestinian cities had been for a thousand years.
Niether Haifa nor Akko will be in the Palestinian state, so what's the argument all about?
The palestinians aren't living there. They are living who knows where and insisting on a right of return to Tel Aviv and Haifa and other places they never lived or didnnt exist when they were there.
All of this is irrelevant to the basic point that the Palestinians are not prepared for self governance and a Pali state would make matters worse in the region not better. The PA currently is on the verge of bankruptcy owing to its kleptocracy.
There are plenty of Palestinians living in Palestine. What are you talking about? As for where they lived previously, Haifa did exist and Jaffa and Nazareth. It's not for you to decide what sort of government they have. That's their problem. The only issue is were there Palestinians prior to 1948 and history will tell you there definitely were.
yawn.
Old talking points are still old.
Rabbi -
You are quite right - both Haifa and Tel Aviv are new, Jewish cities.
It's just worth keeping in mind that were founded literally within sight of where Palestinian cities had been for a thousand years.
There are plenty of Palestinians living in Palestine. What are you talking about? As for where they lived previously, Haifa did exist and Jaffa and Nazareth. It's not for you to decide what sort of government they have. That's their problem. The only issue is were there Palestinians prior to 1948 and history will tell you there definitely were.
yawn.
Old talking points are still old.
You seem to have no problem with false talking points, like saying that Palestinians were newly arrived. I think old, true points trump, fabricated "facts" any time.
Amidst all the usual abuse on the Middle East threads there are a number of myths about the Palestinian past and present that I think are worth addressing.
Myths:
1 - Palestinian never existed as a country
2 - There was never a Palestine in history
3 - The Palestinian people are not real or pure or are created
4 - Palestinian nationalism only began in the 1960's
None of these have much basis in reality, but are interesting to look at in the context of the history of all nations.
Prior to about 1800 there were almost no countries at all because the concept of a nation state is quite recent. In 1850, neither Italy not Germany existed, and never had done. There were no German people, no Italian people and there never had been. People living in those areas considered themselves Piedmontese, Hannoverian, Prussian, Genoan or Venetian.
Likewise in the Middle East people moved slowly from more of a nomadic existance to being more settled, and thus moved from a more 'tribal' identity (Phoenician, Scythian, Cimmerian) to an identity more often based around a town, community or local leader. The concept of identification anf loyalty to a nation state began in Palestine much the same time it began to sweep across Europe. By WWI Palestine had nationalist newspapers, had experienced uprisings against Egyptian and Turkish rule, and had a clear sense of identity entirely seperate from Syria or Jordan.
Going further back, the word 'Palestine' appeared on maps for 600 years, and dates back to the 5th Century BCE, thus making it one of the oldest names for a nation on the face of the earth. While the name 'Palestine' probably is a bastardization of the word 'Philistine', Palestinians have more in common genetically with the Canaanites of the inland hills than they do with the coastal Philistines.
Genetic testing has established that the modern Palestinians can trace genetic code back in towns like Jericho at east 3,000 years. Again, this is a far longer period of permanant habitation than claimed by dozens of countries around the world. Palestinians have not sat, isolated, on one piece of land for the past 5,000 years, but neither have the English (whose blood is largely Nordic, Norman, Roman and Saxon) or any other people.
What this means to me is that the Palestinian claim to land in the region is as strong as Israeli claims, and needs to be accepted as such. Luckily, from a historical perspective, many towns and regions are clearly one or the other, and I don't believe division of land need be as difficult as some opponents suggest.
Niether Haifa nor Akko will be in the Palestinian state, so what's the argument all about?
Well, you asked what Palestinians will give up - those two cities (Akko and Yaffo) are two things they will have to give up.
Niether Haifa nor Akko will be in the Palestinian state, so what's the argument all about?
Well, you asked what Palestinians will give up - those two cities (Akko and Yaffo) are two things they will have to give up.
