“The Case for $320,000 Kindergarten Teachers,”

[chanel]

In “The Case for $320,000 Kindergarten Teachers,” David Leonhardt poses the question “How much do your kindergarten teacher and classmates affect the rest of your life?”

On Tuesday, Mr. Chetty presented the findings — not yet peer-reviewed — at an academic conference in Cambridge, Mass. They’re fairly explosive. […]

Students who had learned much more in kindergarten were more likely to go to college than students with otherwise similar backgrounds. Students who learned more were also less likely to become single parents. As adults, they were more likely to be saving for retirement. Perhaps most striking, they were earning more.

How Did Kindergarten Affect You? - The Learning Network Blog - NYTimes.com

Comments?

 

[jillian]

good argument for increased funding of head start programs.

one might also ask how what the kids learned in kindergarten correlates to the types of teachers they had subsequently.

 

[chanel]

Yes. Many factors to consider. However this is impressive.

"They examined the life paths of almost 12,000 children who had been part of a well-known education experiment in Tennessee in the 1980s. The children are now about 30, well started on their adult lives. "

I'm all in favor of good head start programs. Unfortunately, many of them are not good.

 

[Middleman]

I had a mean, old, cranky kindergarten teacher. Fortunately, she broke her leg and we got a long term sub, which was a reprieve for me.

She was ancient appearing, and didn't seem to like kids.

 

[chanel]

I honestly don't remember my Kindergarten teacher. I remember the first day of school and that's about it. But I did have a phenomenal 1st and 2nd grade teacher - Mrs. Thompson. I decided I wanted to be a teacher then.

 

[editec]

I kid you not...

My kintergarden teacher was named... Miss Heinous.

No, that was not how it was spelled. (I think it might have been spelled Haines)

But " hei·nous (h

n

s)" was how it was pronounced.

source

I have to ask you...wouldn't giving your children to somebody by that name give you pause?

 

[geauxtohell]

Teachers should be paid in the same range and scale as military officers with the same benefits IMO.

They are just as important. $320K is ridiculous, but a starting salary of around $35-40K with regular pay increases and a 20 year retirement package + health care + living stipend and housing is reasonable.

Inner city teachers should get hazardous duty pay too.

 

[Annie]

Teachers should be paid in the same range and scale as military officers with the same benefits IMO.

They are just as important. $320K is ridiculous, but a starting salary of around $35-40K with regular pay increases and a 20 year retirement package + health care + living stipend and housing is reasonable.

Inner city teachers should get hazardous duty pay too.

How much do you think teachers make on average? Do you know that their benefits are above the average worker, significantly?

I'm for paying teachers a fair wage, just like police, fire, etc. However, costs need to be taken into consideration also.

State Rankings--Statistical Abstract of the United States--Public School Teachers' Average Salaries

These were from 2006, including both elementary and secondary. Secondary teachers average is quite a bit higher than elementary.

 

[Truthmatters]

This country refuses to honor and pay teachers the way they deserve to be.

You get what you pay for

 

[random3434]

Yes. Many factors to consider. However this is impressive.

"They examined the life paths of almost 12,000 children who had been part of a well-known education experiment in Tennessee in the 1980s. The children are now about 30, well started on their adult lives. "

I'm all in favor of good head start programs. Unfortunately, many of them are not good.

Really? What Head Start Programs aren't "That Good?"

That's a shame, because as we all know, early childhood education IS the key for a child to be successful in school. As is parents involvement at home, reading to them, et al....

I would LOVE to teach Early Childhood, but I can't afford to go back and get a degree in that area right now.

 

[chanel]

The reviews have been mixed. I can't research right now, but just like good and bad public and private schools, head starts vary. The one near me sucks. Kids in that town have a 40 percent drop out rate compared to about 10 at my school.

 

[Annie]

Yes. Many factors to consider. However this is impressive.

"They examined the life paths of almost 12,000 children who had been part of a well-known education experiment in Tennessee in the 1980s. The children are now about 30, well started on their adult lives. "

I'm all in favor of good head start programs. Unfortunately, many of them are not good.

Really? What Head Start Programs aren't "That Good?"

That's a shame, because as we all know, early childhood education IS the key for a child to be successful in school. As is parents involvement at home, reading to them, et al....

I would LOVE to teach Early Childhood, but I can't afford to go back and get a degree in that area right now.

I'm a strong proponent of preschool, but data seems to equate benefits with the groups that already tend to succeed in school.

http://www.rand.org/labor/DRU/DRU2439.pdf

The fade-out effects come through in data. In conclusion the authors try to find benefits that might not be seen.

I'd agree that the likelihood of having preschoolers attend a program is more likely to result in parents reading more to their children and perhaps lead to more pro-social behavior on children's behavior, leading to less corporal punishment.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I think grade school is more important than college.

But I also think a lot of people that use grade school for social engineering purposes have known this for decades. I have seen a psychology book from the 1920s that made though provoking comments about what into children's heads.

We are controlled via our schools. That was also an interesting thing to note about reading science fiction books in grade school. They contained plenty of ideas that were more sophisticated than I got via official education but they were still understandable.

The schools are designed to train us to be STUPID.

psik

 

[Middleman]

Teachers should be paid in the same range and scale as military officers with the same benefits IMO.

They are just as important. $320K is ridiculous, but a starting salary of around $35-40K with regular pay increases and a 20 year retirement package + health care + living stipend and housing is reasonable.

Inner city teachers should get hazardous duty pay too.

Actually, many school districts do pay a premium for inner city schoolteachers. I know this because my mother was a teacher.

 

[Annie]

Chicago Public Schools, pay scale for FULL-TIME TEACHER SALARY SCHEDULE -38.6 WEEK POSITIONS - 6.25 Hour Day

http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Employee/Forms/SalAdm/FTTeachers38.6.pdf

Nearly $45k first year, w/bachelor's.
$72,754 after 13 years, w/bachelor's.

 

[Annie]

My HS district, (CPS is a unit district, no difference between elementary and secondary):

http://www.glenbard87.org/Files/Human_Resources/2008-2009_Schedule.pdf

GLENBARD TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 87
2008-2009 Salary Schedule


Note the teachers must have a MS by their 8th year or they are out. This is without pay from coaching, student council, sponsoring club, etc.

 

[random3434]

Chicago Public Schools, pay scale for FULL-TIME TEACHER SALARY SCHEDULE -38.6 WEEK POSITIONS - 6.25 Hour Day

http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Employee/Forms/SalAdm/FTTeachers38.6.pdf

Nearly $45k first year, w/bachelor's.
$72,754 after 13 years, w/bachelor's.

HOLY MOLY MACARONI!

That is 22,000 more A YEAR than what I'm making now with the exact same exp. teaching in the inner city here!

Hmmmm, maybe I should move to Chicago!

 

[Annie]

Chicago Public Schools, pay scale for FULL-TIME TEACHER SALARY SCHEDULE -38.6 WEEK POSITIONS - 6.25 Hour Day

http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Employee/Forms/SalAdm/FTTeachers38.6.pdf

Nearly $45k first year, w/bachelor's.
$72,754 after 13 years, w/bachelor's.

HOLY MOLY MACARONI!

That is 22,000 more A YEAR than what I'm making now with the exact same exp. teaching in the inner city here!

Hmmmm, maybe I should move to Chicago!

Indeed. As I've been trying to explain, in at least metro areas teachers are not underpaid. You know that I'm certainly not against teachers making a decent salary. I just wonder if people ever look at their property tax bills. There was a time that they were dreadfully underpaid, but that was a couple, few decades ago.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The reviews have been mixed. I can't research right now, but just like good and bad public and private schools, head starts vary. The one near me sucks. Kids in that town have a 40 percent drop out rate compared to about 10 at my school.

HEAD START BASICALLY HAS NO EFFECT
The Department of Health and Human Services has been sitting on an evaluation of the Head Start government run pre-school program. The study found virtually no lasting effects on participants.
The study used a gold-standard, random assignment design and had a very large nationally representative sample. For students who were randomly assigned to Head Start or not at the age of 4:

The researchers collected 41 measures of lasting cognitive effects; of those 41 measures, only one was significant and positive while the remaining 40 showed no statistically significant difference.
The one significant effect was for receptive vocabulary, which showed no significant advantage for Head Start students after kindergarten but somehow re-emerged at the end of 1st grade.
For students randomly assigned to Head Start or not at the age of 3:

The researchers also collected 41 measures of lasting cognitive effects; this time they found two statistically significant positive effects and one statistically significant negative effect.
Again, 38 of the 41 measures of lasting effects showed no difference and the few significant effects, which could be produced by chance, showed mixed results.

It is safe to say from this very rigorous evaluation that Head Start had no lasting effect on the academic preparation of students, says Jay Greene, a professor of education reform at the University of Arkansas and a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

The long and short of it is that the government runs an enormously expensive pre-school program that has made basically no difference for the students who participate in it. And folks are proposing that we expand government pre-school to include all students, says Greene.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opr...orts/impact_study/executive_summary_final.pdf

 

[bodecea]

good argument for increased funding of head start programs.

one might also ask how what the kids learned in kindergarten correlates to the types of teachers they had subsequently.

The Republicans have been trying to axe Head Start ever since I can remember.