The California Boondoggle

Spare_change

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Jun 27, 2011
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From the LA Times .....

California’s bullet train could cost taxpayers 50% more than estimated — as much as $3.6 billion more. And that’s just for the first 118 miles through the Central Valley, which was supposed to be the easiest part of the route between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

A confidential Federal Railroad Administration analysis, obtained by The Times, projects that building bridges, viaducts, trenches and track from Merced to Shafter could cost $9.5 billion to $10 billion, compared with the original budget of $6.4 billion.

The federal document outlines far-reaching management problems: significant delays in environmental planning, lags in processing invoices for federal grants and continuing failures to acquire needed property.

From The National Review -

[T]he fact is that the route already has service — through the airlines. At least a half-dozen airlines fly that route each day, with multiple departures and arrivals through multiple airports throughout both endpoint metropolises. The costs of those flights cost less than the full projected cost of a round-trip ticket on the 160-minute train ride, and gets there in less than half the time. There is almost literally no need for this boondoggle except to aggrandize the politicians wasting taxpayer money by laying track adjacent to and across the West’s largest earthquake fault.

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And we wonder why California is sinking under its own debt. You've got to love the leadership of this haven of progressivism.
 
Everything is a fucking waste to you animals. I bet you think our highway system is also a waste of money.

Why won't you go to Afghanistan and ride horsies with your brothers.

Do you know how to tell if something is a benefit to society, or a burden on society?

When the value you create, is greater, than the cost to create it.

If I spend $5,000 on material, and $5,000 on labor, and the resulting car is worth $20,000... society as a whole is more wealthy. That's where profit comes from. Wealth being created. I consumed $10,000 worth of value, to create $20,000 worth of value.

If I take $5,000 in material, and $5,000 in labor, and create a car that is only worth $8,000.... I consumed $10,000 worth of value, to create $8,000. Society is poorer. The entire nation is less wealthy because of what I did.

When you are so dumb..... that you spend hundreds of billions of dollars to create a railway, that loses money every year.... the country is poorer. We are WORSE OFF because of your stupidity.

You are a dumb, brainless buffoon.

If your stupidity worked, Greece would be the most wealthy country in Europe. They built a multi-Billion dollar railway system just a few years ago.

Did it bring them wealth and prosperity? Or poverty and ruin?

Facts beat your mindless incompetent opinion.
 
From the LA Times .....

California’s bullet train could cost taxpayers 50% more than estimated — as much as $3.6 billion more. And that’s just for the first 118 miles through the Central Valley, which was supposed to be the easiest part of the route between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

A confidential Federal Railroad Administration analysis, obtained by The Times, projects that building bridges, viaducts, trenches and track from Merced to Shafter could cost $9.5 billion to $10 billion, compared with the original budget of $6.4 billion.

The federal document outlines far-reaching management problems: significant delays in environmental planning, lags in processing invoices for federal grants and continuing failures to acquire needed property.

From The National Review -

[T]he fact is that the route already has service — through the airlines. At least a half-dozen airlines fly that route each day, with multiple departures and arrivals through multiple airports throughout both endpoint metropolises. The costs of those flights cost less than the full projected cost of a round-trip ticket on the 160-minute train ride, and gets there in less than half the time. There is almost literally no need for this boondoggle except to aggrandize the politicians wasting taxpayer money by laying track adjacent to and across the West’s largest earthquake fault.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we wonder why California is sinking under its own debt. You've got to love the leadership of this haven of progressivism.
"Maybe you can fix it when you go to the left coast, you know like benghazi and fast and furious"...
ahold1.jpg


California governor Jerry Brown has staked out the turf as President-Elect Trump’s opponent, hiring Eric Holder to gin up a legal strategy and appointing Congressman Xavier Bacera as his A.G. to oppose anticipated Trump policies in sanctuary cities, the environment, and what some call California’s “values.”

But I have to wonder if Brown doesn’t have a vulnerable flank in this battle: the looming financial collapse of his most cherished project, the so-called “bullet train” between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Yesterday, the Los Angeles Times published information from a “confidential” Federal Railroad Administration report that was leaked to it revealing absolute incompetence and out-of-control overspending on the first segment under construction. The report by Ralph Vartabedian should be read in its entirety to grasp the level of chaos in the project:

...

Read more: Blog: Jerry Brown’s bullet train fiasco and Trump
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
 
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LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

Apples and Oranges. Not comparable in any way.

First, the transcontinental railroad was a private venture, that was profitable and self-sustaining. The only real public thing about it, was that it used Federal land grants, and the only reason for that was because the land was owned by the Federal government to begin with.

IF the land had been privatized, as it was supposed to be, they would have bought the land from private owners, or leased it.

The high speed train you are talking about, is a government funded government run cash pit. Amtrak is a money loser, that without working people like you and me, having money forcibly stolen, and give to it, would end up in bankruptcy and closed.

Rich get richer, and poor get poorer, and the entire country suffers.

Additionally, it's true that the transcontinental rail way, was an economic boast for the entire country, which is exactly why private companies were willing to invest (in current dollars) about $1.3 Billion to build it.

Because it would bring the US value, and that value would earn back the cost, with profit.

But the economic conditions today, do not make such a venture profitable. The primary mode of transportation was Train. Goods were transferred by train. The public transport was train. So connecting new cities by track was of course a huge boon.

Today, the primary transportation is automobile. Either personal car, or large Semi.

Back then as you correctly said, it opened up the west and plains to affordable economical transport. Why? Because they didn't have affordable economical transport back then.

Due tell... which area of the country today, would you claim does not have affordable economical transport, and more importantly, which area your California high speed train is going hit, doesn't have affordable economical transport? And the answer is obviously, no such area exists.

Which is why this is a boondoggle. It's a giant waste of money, I the only US state which went to the Federal government, because they almost went bankrupt.

Again, Greece tried this. Infrastructure spending, is not a magic economic pill that fixes everything. Every country that has tried it, hasn't had good results.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.


Spare charge also disagrees with the economic system, healthcare system and pretty much everything the rest of the developed world believes. It is really sad...His belief is that we should be a backwards shithole.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.

That's not even apples and oranges ----- that's apples and kumquats.

First, to try to compare the relatively compact areas of Europe and Japan to the US is nonsensical. Because of the population density, and relatively short distances between cities in both, coupled with the lack of air transportation to the intermediate stops, rail is a logical solution. The $/mile make it a viable solution.

In the US, however, the much greater distances, lack of intermediate stops, and the ready availability of both auto and air transportation make rail travel a loser. The $/mile cost is significantly greater. We know that they are projecting that a round trip ticket on the LA-SF bullet train will be approximately equal to the round trip cost of airfare. Why would you spend the extra time on the train?
 
There's not even gonna BE direct HIGH SPEED service between LA and San Fran. The last 30 or 40 miles of each leg is via commuter rail. Which is a complete WASTE of a "high speed" train since the rail commute San Jose into San Francisco is 45 minutes to an hour. Similar delays at the LA end. Total time of equipment WASTED is longer than the high speed portion of the run.

Only way to fix that is elevated track thru BOTH dense urban areas or a MASSIVE subway system in an earthquake prone region.. Or --- if trains could fly ...................................
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.
You're referring to countries where public transportation is a mainstay. In this country, we are far more reliant upon and prefer personal transportation. It's just how the US rolls. If I could, I would ride the train to work. There's a state-of-the-art terminal where I work and even a station close to where I live. But, it has been determined that the cost for locals to commute would be so expensive, none of us would pay the price. So, the passenger service is reserved for tourist season and the locals can damned well drive in to Anchorage to work. Well, if you'd like to rent that train station for a wedding reception or some similar event...
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.

Yes. Absolutely it was the wrong move.

Learning from Japan: Infrastructure Spending Won't Boost the Economy

The statistical facts are, Japans economy was taking over the world, prior to their government spending spree. The 80s, and especially the late 80s, we had people running around screaming that the Japanese were coming, and going to buy everything, and we'd end up the United States of Japan. I remember back in the early early 1990s, SNL was doing skits of Japan buying North Carolina as a summer home for CEOs visiting their companies in the US.

Then the Japanese government went completely crazy, building all their infrastructure, and their bullet trains, and all this spending, combined with Pensions and health care costs, and the result was the Asian market crash.

How did Japan react to this? Spending even more to "stimulate" the economy.

Prior to the the 1990s, Japan spent the least amount of money on infrastructure spending, of any of the modern 1st world economies.

Starting in 1991, they embarked on a long massive spending spree that included all your bullet trains, and the result was a sluggish lost decade, now almost two decades.

Lost Decade (Japan) - Wikipedia

A 20 year long period of economic stagnation and sluggish growth.

Over the period of 1995 to 2007, GDP fell from $5.33 to $4.36 trillion in nominal terms, real wages fell around 5%, while the country experienced a stagnant price level.​

Yeah Japan has a nifty bullet train. GDP has fallen dramatically, real wages have fallen (not average wages, but real job-to-job wages have fallen), and prices across the country are stagnant.

But hey... they have a super fast way to get around to their lower paying jobs, and their smaller and shrinking homes. Isn't that great?

Suicides are also up dramatically since the early 90s. But at least they can get to the suicide forest really fast. (suicide forest is an actual place people go to kill themselves. I didn't read as to why that particular place is popular)

So much for free health care reducing clinically preventable deaths. (whenever you hear a leftist say clinically preventable deaths, that includes suicide numbers, which is why those numbers are crap).

Regardless of anything else, the facts clearly show that infrastructure spending does not result in economic growth, and plenty of evidence suggests it does the opposite.

And the same is true everywhere. Japan is the biggest and most obvious and undeniable example of how infrastructure spending damages the economy.

China is another example. Their economy is not nearly as developed, but the same economic principals remain.

You realize that between 1992, and 2007, China had growth rates up around 15%? The absolute lowest they ever had, was a growth rate of 7.6%. The last time the US had a growth rate of 7%, was after the Reagan tax cuts were passed, in 1984.

Then something changed, and in 2006 to present day, the Chinese government poured billions of dollars into infrastructure. They started building stuff, and laying down road, and building bridges, and of course spewing train tracks everywhere.

In 2007, they had a growth rate of 14.7%. Their growth rate has dropped year over year, to the present day of only 7.7%. To us, that's still high, but they had growth rates double that. All this spending and taxing, has harmed their economy.

Similarly, France is a big spender, and they are in an economic crisis.

Greece spent massively, and built the newest largest metro system, which now is in shambles.

Spain went on a massive spending spree, and has white elephant projects all over the country.

Interestingly, the Nordic countries, which are often falsely claimed to be model socialist countries, have largely not invested tons into infrastructure and railways. Its funny how the left-wing holds up Nordic countries as this perfect model of a socialist Utopia, and then when you look it up, Denmark has fewer miles of track than Kenya and Bolivia.

Of course the obvious correlation is all the countries that invested heavily in railway, and other infrastructure projects, are almost all in economic ruin. Spain, France, Greece, Japan, and so on. The countries that didn't invest heavily into rail, and other infrastructure projects, all largely have no problems, and went through the 2008 recession with few problems.

Is it a proven causal link? Hard to say. But the statistics make a pretty clear and convincing argument.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.

They were not wrong .... for their particular topography and their particular socioeconomic system.

It is, however, wrong for our topography and our particular socioeconomic system.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.


Spare charge also disagrees with the economic system, healthcare system and pretty much everything the rest of the developed world believes. It is really sad...His belief is that we should be a backwards shithole.

Since you clearly have no idea what "Spare charge" agrees or disagrees with, I welcome the opportunity to educate you. Just exactly what would you like to know?

I already know the answer - nothing. You are buried in your pre-conceived, pre-educated views, and no amount of facts will dynamite you from your position.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.

And, what do you propose this railroad is going to open? Access to the vineyards?

Tell the truth --- it's a boondoggle designed to cement government control and line the pockets of a few.
I see. So Japan, China, and Europe are all wrong on building rapid railways? Should be a cheaper people mover than jet planes, with far less impact on the environment.

They were not wrong .... for their particular topography and their particular socioeconomic system.

It is, however, wrong for our topography and our particular socioeconomic system.

I would deny even that. There isn't one example, anywhere... at least none that I have investigated, where spending on high speed trains created economic growth.

Every single example I know of, where they spend billions on high speed rail service, the result was economic decline.

Mass rail transit is a money loser. This is why all the mass rail transit systems throughout the entire world, all disappeared, unless the government propped them up.

If they were a growth generator, then they would not need government funding to stay in existence.
 
LOL Ever read the history of the first transcontinental railroad? But, when it was done, it opened the plains and the west.
Trains? Ain't that going back to your time Old Crock when we used horses to move people? Certainly people are just aching to get to Fresno California.
 

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