The Blue Wall of Silence is on display.

[SavannahMann]

One of the curious facts in the death of Justine Ruszczyk was how the officers refused to cooperate with the State Investigations. Cops take care of their own after all. Noor trial: Prosecution raps police supervisor who shut off bodycam

But it is not limited to one department. Or one state. We have seen examples of this throughout the nation. Today’s example comes from right next door to Minneapolis.

5 St. Paul officers fired; accused of not stopping assault

So details are not in abundance with the story so far. Yet it seems that a former cop threw a beating on someone else, and when the current cops showed up, did nothing. Including stopping an assault right in front of them. This my friends is the Blue Wall of Silence. Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

This is the term, one of them, about how cops do not rat out other cops. It is how bad cops continue to lie, brutalize, steal, and commit crimes equally as heinous as those they arrest. If you tell the truth, you are a rat. You betrayed one of the other cops.

Now, for those who say that there are only a tiny fraction of cops who are bad. Answer this question if you please. How is it that the only bad cops in the entire department ended up at the same place and at the same time? The odds against that are astronomical. If only 1% of the cops are bad, how did these five know that they would all stick to the story? I mean the odds are roughly 99 to 1 that the guy standing next to you won’t go along aren’t they? Cops like everyone else only do things when they expect to get away with it.

So what crimes did these cops commit? Perjury, they lied about it. Conspiracy. They agreed to go with the story. And whatever the City or State calls abuse of office.

What are the odds that the only five cops in the entire department would show up and agree to do this over a minor assault case that with a halfway decent lawyer would end up being time served and a small fine? Why risk a felony over a minor case? Because the alternative is that the cops would be labeled rats, and abused by the rest of the cops. You call for backup and the others ignore you because you are a rat. Yeah. It happens. It happened to Serpico.

Well. At least these five cops are gone right? Not so fast. Chances are they will be cops again in a week or so. Only their abuses will be while serving as a small town cop, instead of a big city cop. Police officers outran misconduct, felonies and became police chiefs

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

One problem, if you read the first part of the article you linked to at the bottom of your post, is that the Mayor admits to screwing up by calling the chief of the cop's prior department. That can happen more than one thinks with small departments.

How to stop this kind of thing from happening? One, running criminal background checks - which shows arrests & convictions. Two, Calling the prior department. Three, states need to have a mechanism where-in cops loose their state POST certification for wrong doing. No cert = no employment in Law Enforcement. Four, when a candidate is going through the hiring process require they take a polygraph (it's a common practice in a large percentage of departments in the USA).

Will this halt the problem completely? No, it won't. Many cop's attitudes tend to change as they work in the career field and they commit violations that are criminal, against department policy, and that forfeits the trust the public has in the police agency. So, you can't necessarily stop the first time (and if a serious enough violation it should be the last time).

No system will ever be perfect.

 

[SavannahMann]

One problem, if you read the first part of the article you linked to at the bottom of your post, is that the Mayor admits to screwing up by calling the chief of the cop's prior department. That can happen more than one thinks with small departments.

How to stop this kind of thing from happening? One, running criminal background checks - which shows arrests & convictions. Two, Calling the prior department. Three, states need to have a mechanism where-in cops loose their state POST certification for wrong doing. No cert = no employment in Law Enforcement. Four, when a candidate is going through the hiring process require they take a polygraph (it's a common practice in a large percentage of departments in the USA).

Will this halt the problem completely? No, it won't. Many cop's attitudes tend to change as they work in the career field and they commit violations that are criminal, against department policy, and that forfeits the trust the public has in the police agency. So, you can't necessarily stop the first time (and if a serious enough violation it should be the last time).

No system will ever be perfect.

The goal of this post was not to propose courses of action to reduce or eliminate the activity. The goal was the further erode the idea that a vast majority, like 99% of the cops are true blue and wouldn’t think of doing anything wrong.

Because before we can put a stop to something, before we can fix a problem, we have to first, identify the problem. If we were talking about a fix, and it appears that the thread is going to meander that way, the obvious way to reduce the incidents to where it really is 1% of the cops, is with the device you suggested. The Polygraph. But not only before they are hired, but once every six months.

That by the way is common not only with Police, but people who have access to secrets. The CIA polygraphs their people regularly. If you fail, you don’t go to jail, directly to jail, sans $200. But you are locked out of the secret areas until the failure is explained, and rectified.

One of the responses I get when I suggest this, is that there are sociopaths who can beat the machine. Fine. Agreed. There are. But things do not happen in a vacuum. There are other cops involved. So the questions, and I have thought about this for many years, are just as obvious.

1) Have you lied on any report or in any testimony since your last polygraph?

2) Do you know of anyone who has lied on any report or in any testimony since your last polygraph?

3) Have you planted, or removed any evidence since your last polygraph?

4) Do you know of anyone who has planted, or removed any evidence since your last polygraph?

You get the gist I hope. After the normal baseline questions, name, address, date of birth, next of kin, the test takes no time what so ever.

Total time the cop is off the street including travel to and from the test, is an hour? Again, I am not saying fire the cop on the spot if he fails. I am reasonable enough to know that things happen. People have bad days, and it is inevitable that someone will have a bad day on the test day. But that is also easily managed. It shows when the cop is facing undue stress. So give them a little time, say a week, or even two, to address the issues upsetting him.

Now, during this two week period, the cop can not be allowed back on the street on Duty. No way. If the cop is too upset to pass a polygraph, he is in no emotional state to manage interacting in the public. Problems at home can be addressed, if he has difficulty in processing an event, he can get therapy. The problem is identified, and addressed, and we have a good cop on the other side of the journey. I can totally live with that.

If the cop fails the second polygraph. Ok. Now we have an issue. I am still not saying lock the crook up. I am saying that when the cop leaves the polygraph facility, it is without his badge and gun. Suspended while the test is examined, and the cop still has a chance to come clean, and get whatever secret he is covering up out into the open, and save his job.

But none of that is ever going to happen. The supervisors do not want it to happen. The Brass don’t want it to happen, and the cops on patrol definitely do not want it to happen. They would fight it tooth and nail. It would virtually eliminate the possibility that five cops could stand around and do nothing while a former cop threw a beating on someone. It would virtually eliminate the blue wall of silence, and hold the cops accountable to the Justice System for their actions. And that is why it will never happen. Because the cops are never held accountable.

In the case for this post, five cops committed perjury, conspiracy, both felonies, and abuse of office, no matter what it is called in their State. Two definite felonies, and one probable depending on the laws, and didn’t give it a second thought. The Department took a year to “investigate” the events, and no charges were filed? The Department threw these five to the wolves, because they got caught. Not because the other cops think it is wrong, unethical, whatever. They were the sacrificial lambs to continue the illusion that 99% of the cops are true blue honest fellows who would never imagine such a thing. But as I pointed out in the OP. That is just impossible. It can’t happen, and it doesn’t happen that way.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

You are correct, the chances of things being done as you laid out are slim to -1. Don't forget the cop unions, they don't want it happening that way either.

Here's the problem with the department internal review. Internal Affairs calls in a cop, sits him/her down and the first thing that occurs is that the cop gets read his/her constitutional rights. The cop, unless dumber than a rock, will invoke his/her right against self-incrimination. Okay, duly noted by IA. So what do they do next? They tell you that this interview is now an administrative action and your failure to answer questions can lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination. However, IA states that anything you say can not be used against you in any criminal proceeding since you invoked your right against self-incrimination.

Now any criminal investigation will have to find a different way to have found out anything said by the cop since otherwise it would be fruit of the poisonous tree. So, what's a department to do?

As to the honesty, it doesn't happen that way. The old 1% argument is an argument used to try and keep the public's trust in the department and officers in the department. I believe, as you do, that the percentage of bad cops is a lot higher. I also believe the percentages would vary from department to department. Yet, if you polled the citizens "protected" by any department I believe you'll find the majority have faith & trust in their police department.

I started out as a military cop and after the military worked in law enforcement & corrections agencies (the problem occurs in corrections as well). I hung up my badge voluntarily over 20 years ago (and not for any wrongdoing, I just couldn't put up with the BS anymore). There isn't any amount of money that could entice me to ever wear a badge again.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

One of the curious facts in the death of Justine Ruszczyk was how the officers refused to cooperate with the State Investigations. Cops take care of their own after all. Noor trial: Prosecution raps police supervisor who shut off bodycam

But it is not limited to one department. Or one state. We have seen examples of this throughout the nation. Today’s example comes from right next door to Minneapolis.

5 St. Paul officers fired; accused of not stopping assault

So details are not in abundance with the story so far. Yet it seems that a former cop threw a beating on someone else, and when the current cops showed up, did nothing. Including stopping an assault right in front of them. This my friends is the Blue Wall of Silence. Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

This is the term, one of them, about how cops do not rat out other cops. It is how bad cops continue to lie, brutalize, steal, and commit crimes equally as heinous as those they arrest. If you tell the truth, you are a rat. You betrayed one of the other cops.

Now, for those who say that there are only a tiny fraction of cops who are bad. Answer this question if you please. How is it that the only bad cops in the entire department ended up at the same place and at the same time? The odds against that are astronomical. If only 1% of the cops are bad, how did these five know that they would all stick to the story? I mean the odds are roughly 99 to 1 that the guy standing next to you won’t go along aren’t they? Cops like everyone else only do things when they expect to get away with it.

So what crimes did these cops commit? Perjury, they lied about it. Conspiracy. They agreed to go with the story. And whatever the City or State calls abuse of office.

What are the odds that the only five cops in the entire department would show up and agree to do this over a minor assault case that with a halfway decent lawyer would end up being time served and a small fine? Why risk a felony over a minor case? Because the alternative is that the cops would be labeled rats, and abused by the rest of the cops. You call for backup and the others ignore you because you are a rat. Yeah. It happens. It happened to Serpico.

Well. At least these five cops are gone right? Not so fast. Chances are they will be cops again in a week or so. Only their abuses will be while serving as a small town cop, instead of a big city cop. Police officers outran misconduct, felonies and became police chiefs

To many Cops at the scene. See it on Cops every time. The hood except the one on one combat. It brings out the fairness of the arrest. Looks better on cell phone also. It does how ever show a cop getting the hell beat out of him, if so he needs more training. Which would have looked better in the Rodney King wacking. The female beating the crap out of the 300 lbs hood or 5 cops beating the hell out of him. Think about it and you got your answer.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

You are correct, the chances of things being done as you laid out are slim to -1. Don't forget the cop unions, they don't want it happening that way either.

Here's the problem with the department internal review. Internal Affairs calls in a cop, sits him/her down and the first thing that occurs is that the cop gets read his/her constitutional rights. The cop, unless dumber than a rock, will invoke his/her right against self-incrimination. Okay, duly noted by IA. So what do they do next? They tell you that this interview is now an administrative action and your failure to answer questions can lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination. However, IA states that anything you say can not be used against you in any criminal proceeding since you invoked your right against self-incrimination.

Now any criminal investigation will have to find a different way to have found out anything said by the cop since otherwise it would be fruit of the poisonous tree. So, what's a department to do?

As to the honesty, it doesn't happen that way. The old 1% argument is an argument used to try and keep the public's trust in the department and officers in the department. I believe, as you do, that the percentage of bad cops is a lot higher. I also believe the percentages would vary from department to department. Yet, if you polled the citizens "protected" by any department I believe you'll find the majority have faith & trust in their police department.

I started out as a military cop and after the military worked in law enforcement & corrections agencies (the problem occurs in corrections as well). I hung up my badge voluntarily over 20 years ago (and not for any wrongdoing, I just couldn't put up with the BS anymore). There isn't any amount of money that could entice me to ever wear a badge again.

I did the same thing, liked it better when there were only 6 Deputies working and backup was 22 min away. I did 22 years with not compaints except a rape charge that was brought to the Dept when I was in Canada my witness was the RCMP I was ridding with. If there was any I was never notified of them. Many but not all are Liberals worried about getting fired.

 

[Polishprince]

One of the curious facts in the death of Justine Ruszczyk was how the officers refused to cooperate with the State Investigations. Cops take care of their own after all. Noor trial: Prosecution raps police supervisor who shut off bodycam

But it is not limited to one department. Or one state. We have seen examples of this throughout the nation. Today’s example comes from right next door to Minneapolis.

5 St. Paul officers fired; accused of not stopping assault

So details are not in abundance with the story so far. Yet it seems that a former cop threw a beating on someone else, and when the current cops showed up, did nothing. Including stopping an assault right in front of them. This my friends is the Blue Wall of Silence. Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

This is the term, one of them, about how cops do not rat out other cops. It is how bad cops continue to lie, brutalize, steal, and commit crimes equally as heinous as those they arrest. If you tell the truth, you are a rat. You betrayed one of the other cops.

Now, for those who say that there are only a tiny fraction of cops who are bad. Answer this question if you please. How is it that the only bad cops in the entire department ended up at the same place and at the same time? The odds against that are astronomical. If only 1% of the cops are bad, how did these five know that they would all stick to the story? I mean the odds are roughly 99 to 1 that the guy standing next to you won’t go along aren’t they? Cops like everyone else only do things when they expect to get away with it.

So what crimes did these cops commit? Perjury, they lied about it. Conspiracy. They agreed to go with the story. And whatever the City or State calls abuse of office.

What are the odds that the only five cops in the entire department would show up and agree to do this over a minor assault case that with a halfway decent lawyer would end up being time served and a small fine? Why risk a felony over a minor case? Because the alternative is that the cops would be labeled rats, and abused by the rest of the cops. You call for backup and the others ignore you because you are a rat. Yeah. It happens. It happened to Serpico.

Well. At least these five cops are gone right? Not so fast. Chances are they will be cops again in a week or so. Only their abuses will be while serving as a small town cop, instead of a big city cop. Police officers outran misconduct, felonies and became police chiefs

Police Officers in this country are under assault from the left.

In many cities, they have lost their jobs and even lost their freedom from out of control libs

You have to expect they'll stick together.

 

[SavannahMann]

One of the curious facts in the death of Justine Ruszczyk was how the officers refused to cooperate with the State Investigations. Cops take care of their own after all. Noor trial: Prosecution raps police supervisor who shut off bodycam

But it is not limited to one department. Or one state. We have seen examples of this throughout the nation. Today’s example comes from right next door to Minneapolis.

5 St. Paul officers fired; accused of not stopping assault

So details are not in abundance with the story so far. Yet it seems that a former cop threw a beating on someone else, and when the current cops showed up, did nothing. Including stopping an assault right in front of them. This my friends is the Blue Wall of Silence. Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

This is the term, one of them, about how cops do not rat out other cops. It is how bad cops continue to lie, brutalize, steal, and commit crimes equally as heinous as those they arrest. If you tell the truth, you are a rat. You betrayed one of the other cops.

Now, for those who say that there are only a tiny fraction of cops who are bad. Answer this question if you please. How is it that the only bad cops in the entire department ended up at the same place and at the same time? The odds against that are astronomical. If only 1% of the cops are bad, how did these five know that they would all stick to the story? I mean the odds are roughly 99 to 1 that the guy standing next to you won’t go along aren’t they? Cops like everyone else only do things when they expect to get away with it.

So what crimes did these cops commit? Perjury, they lied about it. Conspiracy. They agreed to go with the story. And whatever the City or State calls abuse of office.

What are the odds that the only five cops in the entire department would show up and agree to do this over a minor assault case that with a halfway decent lawyer would end up being time served and a small fine? Why risk a felony over a minor case? Because the alternative is that the cops would be labeled rats, and abused by the rest of the cops. You call for backup and the others ignore you because you are a rat. Yeah. It happens. It happened to Serpico.

Well. At least these five cops are gone right? Not so fast. Chances are they will be cops again in a week or so. Only their abuses will be while serving as a small town cop, instead of a big city cop. Police officers outran misconduct, felonies and became police chiefs

Police Officers in this country are under assault from the left.

In many cities, they have lost their jobs and even lost their freedom from out of control libs

You have to expect they'll stick together.

They always stuck together. The difference now is that people are learning about it.

But that has been the excuse through history whenever the cops are told to stop doing something they want, not have, not need, but just plain want to do. When Miranda was working its way through the courts, the Cops warned with serious faces, if they had to warn people about their rights, that nobody would ever confess again. Well Miranda became law, and the police still get confessions. When the cops were told they couldn’t beat a confession out of people, they warned of dire consequences and claimed it was just a little motivation to scare the baddie.

Time and time again, we have heard doom and gloom predictions from the LEO’s, and time and time again, none of those predictions have ever come true.

On the other hand, the predictions of those who are not cops, tend to come true a lot of the time. When the standards for use of deadly force were lowered, people warned that this would lead to a lot of situations where the cops shot unarmed or otherwise innocent people. Nonsense we were told, the cops know what they are doing. Well in Georgia, half of the shootings by police, are just as was predicted. Half of those shot by police are shot in the back, or unarmed. Half.

When the police were arguing that they had not violated the prohibition against illegal search and seizure by going to a bank and getting information on a suspect, without a warrant, we were told that no there would not be abuses. Of course now you have to provide your life history to the bank, which is then handed over to the cops at the first request. Isn’t this fun?

Same thing with every other thing that was not going to be abused by the police. That neat GPS chip in your phone? Did you know it was mandated by Congress? The excuse was simple. If you dialed 911 and could not tell the operator where you were, you might die before help arrived. Of course, now the various agencies use it to track anyone they want. Which they swore up and down was not the intent when the law was passed.

Time and again, we hear that the Left is out to get the Police. Yet what is the left really objecting to? Abuses, brutality, and lies. All the things that the cops aren’t supposed to do in the first place. The things that the cops swear they detest as much as the left does. “We all hate a dirty cop” the spokesman says as he announces that after years of investigation, they can no longer pretend that the cop isn’t dirty.

Only by holding the police to the highest standards, and enforcing the Bill of Rights rigorously and without compromise, can we insure that this nation, with it’s foundation of limited Government and individual liberty, go into the foreseeable future. Otherwise, we are just another nation sliding down into tin pot dictator territory.