The Big Lie

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ScreamingEagle, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Kerry says "we have the option" of curing Parkinson's, diabetes, spinal-cord injuries, or any other disease using embryonic stem cells. This is false and outrageous. No scientist has ever claimed this. It is just misleading people into thinking miracles can be done for them when there is no scientific proof that it is possible. However, people HAVE been helped with ADULT stem cells.

    Why is it the liberals are pushing for embryonic stem cell research when it seems all the actual progress is being made with adult stem cells? Is it because with embryonic stem cell research you must create life and then destroy it? The implications of accepting this idea are far-reaching, horrible, and potentially devastating to society. This is an inhumane political platform and it is frightening that such a proposal is even being given any real attention.

    The evil being promoted by the liberal left is stunning.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/george200410090039.asp
     
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  2. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I agree. its a huge lie. They are pushing it soley for the pro abortion crowd. make it even more acceptable.

    Science has to be balanced by ethics. if its not we are no better than Nazi germany.
     
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  3. fuzzykitten99
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    fuzzykitten99 Senior Member

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    that's the thing i hate (and I do mean HATE) about people who think they are more educated than the average American. they think they know EVERYTHING about everything. You name it, they know ALL about it, and you know nothing, or they assume you don't, and they try to tell you whole lies and half-truths.
     
  4. InfitiasFatalis
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    InfitiasFatalis Member

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    I agree using embryonic stem cells is wrong in most cases. However, what if the embryo was miscarried(by natural causes not alcohol, drugs, or abortion) and the parents allowed the stem cells to be used for research wouldnt that be similar to the little orange donor sticker many people have on thier drivers lisences?
     
  5. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Well that would be quite a bit different than growing embryos to kill them like Republicans oppose.
     
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  6. nakedemperor
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    nakedemperor Senior Member

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    He obviously wasn't saying stem cell research would immediately lead to all these diseases being cured-- these are diseases that are potentially curable through stem cell research. That's what he meant, and its grasping at straws to believe he was actually trying to say that all these diseases being immediately erradicated.
     
  7. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    See the problem with that is they dont have any idea about that. who knows what the research would bring. you cant make the claims they could find cures doing it with any certainity.

    However, the fact is the President is the only President who has allowed any stem cell research. He just is limiting from growing new lines. if we dont draw moral limits what makes us better than the nazis
     
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  8. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    NakedEmperor,

    I disagree with you on this one. At the Democratic National Convention Ronald Reagan, Jr. spoke of the advances and "cures" embryonic stem cell research would cause as if they were "just around the corner." We know that just isn't true.

    At his debate, Kerry DID say that we "have the option" to discover these diseases...he mentioned Michael J. Fox and Christopher Reeves (sidenote: Reeves was an AMAZING man, strong, determined, and truly an inspiration...I was very sad to hear of his death) in order to give the people in the audience famous people who "could be cured" with stem cell research. It was an emotional ploy....who wouldn't want Michael J. Fox cured...who wouldn't have wanted to see Superman walk again???

    I hate to be so cynical, NakedEmperor, but most people do not think about things or discuss things as much as we do here....most people in the US think the argument is "use stem cells: cure lots of diseases" They do not know that most scientists say that even with full access to embryonic stem cells cures could be years away.

    I have not heard Kerry say ONCE that cures are not going to be available for years...I have not heard him say that he is not talking about some miracle breakthrough that could send Michael J. Fox back to making movies....I HAVE heard him IMPLY that we could cure people like Fox...if we ONLY would allow government subsidies and support of stem cell research.

    We are smart enough to hear and understand not just want these candidates say...but what they are implying. And I think that Kerry has been playing on people's ignorance when he talks about stem cell research.
     
  9. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    The article you cite is misleading because it is extremely incomplete. The fact is that stem cell research is the most promising avenue currently under investigation for cures involving tissue regeneration. There are literally thousands of articles available for anyone who seeks an objective assessment of this subject.

    I agree that there are troubling questions of ethics involved, but most of those can be resolved. You have already hit upon one method where fetal stem cells would be acceptable as in the case of miscarriage. There is already some research on alternative methods of acquiring stem cells. Blood from the umbilical cord contains cells that may be useful and as the article below points out, there are stem cells in adipose tissue which may prove to be viable.

    The following article both refutes and supports some of the arguments made thus far in this thread.


    http://www.actrf.org/WhatsNew/October_2004.htm#2

    Embryonic Stem Cells Correct Congenital Heart Defect In Mouse Embryos

    A study published in the October 8, 2004 issue of Science describes a previously unsuspected capacity of embryonic stem cells to influence neighboring defective cells and restore their capacity to function normally.

    Researchers at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center report that 15 embryonic stem cells injected into early embryos of mice whose hearts were genetically predisposed to develop a lethal defect, rescued the heart from developing the disorder by not only producing normal daughter cells that were incorporated into the defective embryonic heart but also by releasing biological factors into the nearby vicinity. This prevented neighboring heart cells from developing into defective tissue.

    "In other words, stem cells act like nurses, restoring 'sick' cells to health" said Robert Benezra, PhD, a Member in the Cancer Biology and Genetics Program at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and the study's senior author. "The result was that fifty-percent of the mice fated to die in the womb were born with healthy hearts."

    Adapted from the following source: Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center



    International Society Determines Future Research And The Most Promising Clinical Opportunities Using Stem Cells From Fat

    While questions still remain about the nature and function of stem cells found in fat, a group of researchers and clinicians convened today in Pittsburgh at the Second Annual Meeting of the International Fat Applied Technology Society (IFATS) agreed that research should move forward with the ultimate goal of performing human clinical trials to test the cells’ therapeutic potential for specific indications.

    The scientific sessions explored how adipose tissue, or fat, can be an abundant source of stem cells that could be used for tissue engineering and regenerative medicine. An important outcome of the meeting was the development of a consensus defining key scientific questions for future study and determining the field’s most promising clinical applications.

    More than 300,000 liposuction procedures are performed in the United States each year, producing about 150,000 gallons of fat that is normally discarded. In 2001, researchers first reported that such tissue contained stem cells, and since then, additional studies have suggested they can be coaxed into other cell types, such as nerve, bone, muscle and blood vessels; or it may be that they have properties of these cells. Some research has progressed more rapidly, with animal studies indicating potential for the development of treatments for heart attack or bone injury, for example, while results looking at other uses are still quite preliminary.

    There are currently no human trials in the United States evaluating the potential of stem cells derived from fat, but in reaching consensus on the most promising clinical applications, those attending the IFATS meeting believe the first clinical attempts in patients should be for repairing or healing bone defects, promoting growth of blood vessels in tissues not receiving sufficient blood supply, and for treating acute or chronic cardiac and peripheral vascular diseases.

    Moreover, the group felt the best use of the technology should be to develop therapies using patients’ own cells, as opposed to cells that might be donated by other individuals. Because adipose is both abundantly available and easily accessible, it offers a practical source of stem cells.

    Adapted from the following source: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
     
  10. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Bioethical principle must reign over biotechnological license.
     

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