The Bible: What Was Placed In

You wasted all that time to research something you don't believe in...that's intelligent!

Actually, it is very intelligent. See intelligent people study all things, whether they believe them or not. Its not good to be ignorant on any subject.

And who knows, maybe youll study something you dont believe in and come to believe in it. After all thats what learning is all about.

I guess I will just have to throw out my bible because some non-believer on a message board states that the bible is inconsistent. I'm sure everyone will be waiting with breathless anticipation for you next post.

Not sure that's what he's saying.
 
Hi Agnapostate:

Agnapostate was kind enough to present me with a challenge to present my opposing views to his Opening Post ‘fallibility’ claims on my China thread here and this son of God just loves any Bible challenge. :0)

Those who believe in the infallibility of the Bible have questions to answer regarding numerous major textual errors and contradictions contained in this allegedly divinely inspired book, as well as several regarding a few books of the Bible that are evidently forgeries.

First of all, nobody on my side of this debate believes that ‘men’ are in any way infallible, but the truth of God’s Living Word cannot be broken (John 10:35) and represents the “Word of Truth” (2Tim. 2:15) “inspired BY GOD and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” 2Timonthy 3:16-17. Before I begin answering the OP thesis, claims, evidence and conclusions, the Bible that sits on my desk every day is written in Greek and includes every deviation between the Received Text (Antiochian Manuscripts = KJV), the Critical Text (older Egyptian Manuscripts = NASB) and the Majority Text including the original Greek from the ‘majority’ of the Greek manuscripts.

Every student of God’s Word must realize that copyist errors are included in ‘both’ major sets of manuscripts, which creates a fork in the road for each place where the original manuscripts ‘disagree.’ Remember that you are dealing with scholars from ancient times huddled in candle-lit rooms making copy after copy of copies and some ‘human’ errors crept into even the original manuscripts ‘before’ they became either Egyptian or Antiochian manuscript derivatives. The next important fact to realize is that our English language is constantly evolving, which means the Old Kingdom James Bible (from the Received Text) was written ‘for’ people living in the 1600’s like the New American Standard Bible (from the Critical Text) represents a translation better-suited for English speaking people today. However, the ancient Greek spoken 2000 years ago DOES NOT change, which means you must use something like a Vine’s Expository Dictionary of NT Words (link) to define these terms in the way that men used them 2000 years ago. We think in Hebrew from right to left in the OT and in Greek from left to right in the NT . . .

Firstly, we shall look at a few examples of passages in the Bible that were not original portions of the text and were apparently added by later scribes. These passages are primarily not present in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest and most reliable surviving manuscripts, as well as several other manuscripts and textual witnesses of great importance. Some may claim that these false passages are not of any particular importance.

Lord-Have-Mercy . . . The Codex Vaticanus was written in the fourth century (link) like the Codex Sinaiticus (link). The Textus Receptus is a “Majority Text” and Your Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are “Minority Texts” (link) for good ‘horse and cart’ reasons ‘and’ the Egyptian (Critical Text) Manuscripts are even ‘older.’ Trying to pit one Greek manuscript against the other to create “God errors” is foolishness, but we traverse every fork in the road to determine God’s will by the guidance of His Holy Spirit in our mortal bodies (1Cor. 3:16, 6:19).

But in a book that claims to be divinely inspired and infallible, those claims obviously need to be verified, and it is difficult to claim that a book is infallible if it contains numerous errors. Moreover, even if the Bible was infallible at one point, we obviously no longer have access to the “infallible” version of the text.

We disagree. The question is about whether our Creator has the ability to deliver ‘His’ mail or not. The answer is a definite ‘yes,’ if you have eyes from God to see. I quote verses from the Received Text (like John 1:18) and from the Critical Text (like Matt. 28:20) and some from my knowledge of the Greek (like 1John 5:-8 = “. . . the three are into the one.”), because, after studying God’s Living Word for decades, then I know which manuscript is correct.

1. Mark 16:9-20: This passage is not present in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts available to us. [snip]

Wrong. Mark 16:9-20 appear in brackets in the Critical Text (Egyptian manuscripts), because those pages were simply missing; but do appear in the Textus Receptus (Antiochian Manuscripts). A conspiracy begins when the older Egyptian Manuscripts ‘claim’ to include verses that are definitely missing. My personal view is that some scholar did not care for the account of Peter and the other disciples displaying their obvious lack of faith, so he managed to lose the documentation. :0)

2. John 7:53-8:11: This passage is of greater importance than Mark 16:9-20, since the text therein relates the well known story of Jesus forgiving a woman caught in adultery, and telling her Pharisee captors that “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

Agnapostate is running through the places where Critical Text omissions appear in the older Egyptian Manuscripts, which we should expect for documents that are almost 2000 years old. The fact that a page is missing from one set of manuscripts does not constitute a ‘God error’ by any stretch of the imagination . . .

3. Acts 8:37: Though a relatively minor verse involving the evangelist Philip’s baptism of an Ethiopian, it is remarkable in that it is an extremely explicit statement of the salvation brought through belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior and acceptance of that salvation. Verse 36 notes that the Ethiopian saw some water, and asked Philip what prevented him from being baptized. Verse 37 follows thusly. “Then Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ And he answered and said, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’”

Acts 8:37 does not appear in the older Egyptian manuscripts and is [bracketed in the NABS] for that reason, but this verse ‘does’ appear in the newer Antiochian (Received) Text; which is the reason that you will find this verse ‘not’ bracketed in the King James Versions.

4. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?”

This verse begins “Let your women . . .” in the Critical Text and Received Text, but you have added words from 1Cor. 14:33 for some unknown reason. We can agree that there are minor differences between the manuscripts, but once again God has delivered the mail . . .

5. 1 John 5:7-8: These verses contain a section that is the most explicit reference to the modern Christian doctrine of the trinity that exists, known as the Comma Johanneum. They read as follows. "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.” The bolded section of the text appears to be a later addition to the text, as again, they are not contained in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. [snip]

I assumed that you would eventually write about the most stomped-upon verses in all of Scripture, which again represent no “God error” at all. Only ‘four or five very late manuscripts’ read like you quote these verses above, which makes me wonder why you would select this abomination of God’s Living Word as ‘your’ chosen translation. Deluded men have gone through an corrupted the Holy Text in places like you see right here, but we have the older manuscripts that exclude these errant additions to show us the Way into the Light of what God is really teaching. Scripture says,

“For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are into the one.” 1John 5:7-8.
You say, “But this is not what either translation says!” And I say, “No kidding, because I am reading from the Greek!” :0) Look for yourself (link):

The Greek says that these three (treis = #5140) are (eisi #1526) into (eis #1519) the one (heis #1520). Go through and click on each number to the left of the Greek and decide for yourself if my translation agrees 100 percent with Strong’s Greek Lexicon. God is describing three witnesses of spirit, water and blood like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (pic) and the heavens, heaven and earth (pic) and the human family (pic) and man (pic) and even God’s Living Word itself (pic). The teaching that the ‘three are into the one’ is better understood by drawing two overlapping circles (explained here) where the first circle is the ‘spirit witness’ and the second circle is the ‘water witness’ and the ‘blood witness’ in every case is the ‘only begotten’ born out of ‘that’ relationship (like Luke 1:35). The lingo about three testifying in ‘heaven’ (Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit) is definitely added to the Greek, because the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = “The Word” (Christ Jesus = under red arrow), but these guys did not realize that at the time they corrupted God’s Living Word. :0)

Having established at least five passages of dubious legitimacy, I would also note several major books of the New Testament which are not regarded as legitimate, and are thought to be forgeries.

Please forgive, but your illegitimate accusations about God’s Living Word do not amount to anything.

A similar error (or deliberate omission) seems to have been made by Paul himself concerning his own activities after he was met by Jesus at Damascus. In Acts 9:26, he is recorded as attempting to meet the disciples at Jerusalem. (Saul and Paul are his respective Hebrew and Roman names.) “And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple.” Yet, in Galatians 1:17, he claims “nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.” He then says in verses 18 through 20, “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)” Now, Acts 9:23 reads, “Now after many days were past, the Jews plotted to kill him.” This is a reference to his expulsion from Damascus, which evidently took place after his conversion there.

This is a classic case of a man ‘creating’ seeming contradictions in Scripture, because of his own ignorance and inability to define ‘true context’ in a particular passage that he is attempting to reconcile. Paul is writing the Galatians in defense of “the gospel I preach among the Gentiles” (Gal. 2:2 = Gospel #2 here) that he received through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Gal. 1:11-12) only AFTER the accounts of Acts 9 have taken place. Paul writes,

“But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son IN me [Col. 1:27 = Fig 2] so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I ‘did not’ immediately consult with flesh and blood, ‘nor did I go up to Jerusalem’ to those who were apostles before me; but ‘I went away to Arabia,’ and returned once more to Damascus.” Galatians 1:15-17.
Peter, John and James are all preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1) that Paul is ‘also’ preaching back in Acts 9, which he describes later as “preaching the kingdom” (Acts 20:25*); as opposed to preaching the “Gospel of the Grace of God” (Acts 20:24*) for the building up of the mystery “Body of Christ.” Paul was having trouble with ‘some of our number’ (Acts 15:24) from Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1 here) disturbing his Gentile Churches that includes Jews among them, which is the very reason that he was sent by yet another ‘revelation’ (Gal. 2:2) to go up to Jerusalem and ‘submit’ this Gospel he preached among the Gentiles (Gospel to the Uncircumcised = Gal. 2:7) at the famous meeting in Jerusalem in the first place. Paul is deliberately ‘separating’ himself and his ‘new’ ministry from that of Peter, John and James, because these Galatians (like the Ephesians, Colossians, etc.) are becoming part of the brand new “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2 = in red) that Peter, John and James (and you guys) did not even know about.

There is no contraction here, but men create seeming contradictions through their own ignorance by the failure to understand the real essence of what God is truly teaching . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
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I wouldn't bother with textual criticism if that was the view that was commonly accepted. But that isn't the prevailing view; the prevailing view is that our current edition of the Bible is infallible and divinely inspired.

That is not at all true.

By the way why are you bothering to go to such lengths to discredit the Bible? Are you suggesting an alternative?
 
Child molesting pieces of shit have a pretty good motivation for attempting to discredit the bible.
 
How do you know for sure which religion is the "correct" religion?

Major Religions Ranked by Size

Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.5 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

World religions



Here's a nice long list. Is one the "only correct" one and all the others are a waste of time?

List of religions and spiritual traditions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Remember, all, or almost all, theistic religions are "bottom-up" faiths. That is, their beliefs, practices and holy books are the creation of humans trying to comprehend the deity or deities that they have created.
 
Child molesting pieces of shit have a pretty good motivation for attempting to discredit the bible.

Oh you just put your foot in your mouth. From ffrf.org and the publication Freethought Today, a column call "Black Collar Crime Blotter", monthly it has dozens of religious heathens committing heinous sex acts.

It only scanned in RTF, and I couldn't get the text/image file to upload, kinda hard to read, but all the info is there. Not saying anything expect don't be a hypocrite. Anyone is capable of child molestation, and religious zealots are not exempt.
 

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The problem is that you start off from a point in which you assume that AllieBabble will make factual statements. Never something that's borne out by evidence.
 
Hi Agna:

The problem is that you start off from a point in which you assume that AllieBabble will make factual statements. Never something that's borne out by evidence.

What's the matter? There is not enough 'evidence' in Post #82 to warrant any defending arguments to the tripe you posted in the OP of this thread? I suppose pasting that fallibility nonsense to start this thread was much easier than defending anything at all. BTW, my "Two Gospels" Open Post (here) is waiting for your thoughtful reply. The "Two Churches" thread (here) has no action if you want to tackle that Bible topic.

The lesson for these readers is that unbelievers have little more to share with anybody than their unbelief . . .

GL,

Terral
 
How do you know for sure which religion is the "correct" religion?

Major Religions Ranked by Size

Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.5 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

World religions



Here's a nice long list. Is one the "only correct" one and all the others are a waste of time?

List of religions and spiritual traditions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Remember, all, or almost all, theistic religions are "bottom-up" faiths. That is, their beliefs, practices and holy books are the creation of humans trying to comprehend the deity or deities that they have created.

There are only 14 million jews? I would have thought there were alot more. Go figure....

To answer your questions. In order to know which religion is God's religion, the only way to know that is to have God reveal it to you.

With that said, are the other faiths a waste of time? If it keeps you from the truth, maybe. But as all faiths have some truth, if you live the truth in them and continually seek for more, i dont think they are wastes of times. God can use the scientologist to move his work just as easily as he can use the Christian.

That and knowledge, for knowledge's sake is a good thing. Learning about different religions helps you understand people and if you understand people you have a great capacity to love them.
 
Hi Agna and Avatar:

What makes you think I'm done? I just had to briefly step in here to illustrate the nature of AllieBabble's idiocy.

Okie dokie then. Please allow me to address Avatar’s statements while you are preparing a reply to Post #82:

To answer your questions. In order to know which religion is God's religion, the only way to know that is to have God reveal it to you.

We disagree. The mythical aspect of your answer (2Tim. 4:3-4) surrounds the notion that God has only ‘one’ dispensation (Vine’s definition) for all people, which is definitely NOT true at all. Melchizedek was making intercession for Gentiles LONG before any such thing as a “Jew” walked this planet; to whom even Abraham paid tithes (Hebrews 7:3+4). God created ‘modes of dealing’ with Gentiles for millions of years (Gen. 1:26-28) before the Lord God (Christ) formed Adam from the dust of the ground on this current ‘seventh day’ (Gen. 2:4+). I explain the differences between the sixth and seventh day races here with my Erets Shift interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 explained here. We know that God has been dealing with men on this earth for millions of years by the Geological Record (link), as God’s Word ‘and’ This Creation are testifying to the very same things (Rom. 1:20). God is calling only specific people to become members of Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) and Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church #2), because everybody else in this world has been called to ‘something else.’

With that said, are the other faiths a waste of time? If it keeps you from the truth, maybe.

We disagree. True Christianity is no religion at all, but is a ‘relationship’ between God and the believer through His Only Begotten Son dwelling within our mortal bodies. 1Cor. 3:16, 6:19 again. Judaism ‘is’ the Lord God’s (Christ’s) true ‘religion’ given to Israel ONLY (Rom. 9:1-4) where Jews bind themselves back to God through works and rituals. The term ‘religion’ is taken from the word ‘reliqare’ meaning ‘to bind back’ (link) by works and rituals, but ‘we’ (real Christians today) are saved by God’s grace through faith ‘apart’ from works (Eph. 2:8-10) and ‘justified’ the very same way (Rom. 4:4-6 = my Two Gospels thread). The members of Christ’s Body in the world today need to concern themselves with the “Lord’s Commandment” (1Cor. 14:37-38) contained inside the Pauline Epistles, because he is the ‘steward’ over this current “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2 = in red) like Moses is steward over Israel of the flesh very much under Mosaic Law (in yellow). The ‘modes of dealing’ that God has created for all the other world religions have nothing whatsoever to do with ‘you,’ if you are among those for whom Christ died.

But as all faiths have some truth, if you live the truth in them and continually seek for more, i dont think they are wastes of times.

We disagree. God has sent ‘His personal mail’ to Israel of the flesh ‘and’ the Disciples of Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” and the members of Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” and everyone with whom He deals every day. While you can benefit by reading God’s personal mail to somebody else, that in no way means that God’s commands ‘to them’ have any application to you whatsoever. There is a vast difference between ‘Eternal truth’ for EVERYBODY and ‘Dispensational truth’ for the members of one single ‘dispensation,’ but the weak and unstable (2Peter 3:14-16) require a ‘tutor’ (1Cor. 4:15) to show you the difference. That is the reason we debate the topics in public forums in the first place, so everybody else can determine who is and who is not approved (1Cor. 11:19) by accurately handing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).

God can use the scientologist to move his work just as easily as he can use the Christian.

No! God’s Living Word is contained within the 66 books of Scripture (in three witnesses), which those blinded by Denominationalism ('mystery of lawlessness/iniquity' = 2Thes. 2:7-12) interpret in over 2000 different ways; and yet, there is still only one ‘the truth.’ When you see anything from the Scientology cult, then my advice is to run like hell . . . :0)

That and knowledge, for knowledge's sake is a good thing. Learning about different religions helps you understand people and if you understand people you have a great capacity to love them.

If anybody here has been called by God to become a member of Christ’s Body by obedience to ‘our gospel’ ('veiled to those perishing') then you can benefit from the lessons in my “The Mystery Explained” manuscript (link). This work compacts years of lessons into a few months and allows “Christ IN You” (Fig 2) to enlarge within the member of Christ’s Body in the shortest amount of time. Otherwise, you can spend an entire lifetime rummaging through the mountain of information about world religions and spin your wheels getting nowhere.

In Christ Jesus right now,

Terral
 
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First, let me Say im responding without quotations because quoting all that will be distracting and I only want to touch a few points.

Second, the "we disagree" parts are rather quickly. Are you Legion or something? I dont see a we. I see your point a view. And you are quite entitled to your viewpoint.

Third, do you honestly think God cant worth through the Heathen as well as the Christian? I think God has power to do whatever he wants with all people. Why doubt God's power?

Fourth, the Lord will reveal knowledge and wisdom upon whomever He chooses whenever He chooses, no matter whats been revealed in the past.
 
Hi Avatar:

First, let me Say im responding without quotations because quoting all that will be distracting and I only want to touch a few points.

The only reason to quote anything from my work is for the purpose of making a case to prove something WRONG. :0)

Second, the "we disagree" parts are rather quickly. Are you Legion or something? I dont see a we. I see your point a view. And you are quite entitled to your viewpoint.

That goes without saying. If you see any weaknesses in my argument then please "quote >> that part" and remove the splinter from my eye using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.

Third, do you honestly think God cant worth [work] through the Heathen as well as the Christian?

Of course. God has been dealing with native inhabitants of the land (Aborigine/Native Indian Peoples) for millions of years, as already explained above. God deals with far more dispensations among men than just those calling themselves Christians.

I think God has power to do whatever he wants with all people. Why doubt God's power?

God 'can' do anything, but God is also limited by what is written in His Living Word (the Scriptures).

"That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new"? Already it has existed for ages which were before us. There is no remembrance of earlier things; and also of the later things which will occur, there will be for them no remembrance among those who will come later still." Ecclesiastes 1:9-11.
Remember also that God did not send His Only Begotten Son into the world to judge the world, 'but' the unbeliever 'has been judged already.' John 3:18. The 'few' are on the path to life and the 'many' are on the wide and paved road to utter destruction. Matthew 7:13-14.

Fourth, the Lord will reveal knowledge and wisdom upon whomever He chooses whenever He chooses, no matter whats been revealed in the past.

That goes without saying too, but God's Hidden Wisdom (my thread) will always be reserved for 'the mature' (1Cor. 2:6); as apposed to the fleshy "men of flesh, as to infants in Christ." 1Corinthians 3:1-3. And the 'natural man,' well, Scripture says,

"But a natural man :)confused:) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him :)cuckoo:); and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual [believer in Christ] appraises all things, yet he himself :)lol:) is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct Him? But we [believers in Christ] have the mind of Christ." 1Corinthians 2:14-16.
The fact remains that the natural/unregenerate man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, because to him all of this Bible stuff is a bunch of nonsense. :0) Therefore, let us not pretend that God is going to somehow change His mind and suddenly begin breaking His Word that cannot be broken (John 10:35).

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
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