The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon

[Truthspeaker]

"indications of plausibility"

That there is some strong evidence.

That's like "Hint of crab chowder."

"Free Mudholes Stomped"

Someone who quotes the infallible Bill Maher

 

[Shogun]

Is Bill stealing my schtick again?

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think Rob makes a good point. There isn't much difference between L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.

Another major misstatement. Did Hubbard claim to be a Prophet? Did he claim to commune with God face to face? Did he claim to have visions and revelations? Did he claim to translate ancient scripture into English. Was he murdered for his beliefs? Was he tarred and feathered? Was he a great public speaker? Was he a Mormon? Did he claim to perform miracles? Did he have more than one wife? Was he a general? A mayor? Did he have any surgeries performed on him without anaesthetics at the age of 7? Did he grow up in a rural background? Come from a big family? Meet with his followers daily? Teach a sermon immediately after being tarred and feathered? Was he ever tarred and feathered? Was he a Mason? Was he acquitted of one false accusation in court let alone 15? Did he really preach to his people or did he just write books and record tapes?

I have got nothing against the man. I just highly doubt they are similar.

 

[ABikerSailor]

goddamit. I made the Hubbard/Smith comparison first.


And Abikersailer.. dude.. christianity was a jewish CULT. Stop making dumb fucking statements about muslims and catholics.

Okay Shit Run......you made the statements about Christianity being a Jewish cult.

Back it up motherfucker, you tell others to do the same thing regularly.

 

[Truthspeaker]

If you read the book of mormon, you WILL, however, find huge sections of the Bible plagiarized right into the middle of it. Apparently, Joseph Smith was having a slow day, and having some difficulty seeing those stones in the bottom of his hat, so he just cut & pasted out of Isaiah.

Another uneducated comment. First there is not a copyright on the King James Bible. Second, Your lack of knowledge of the context is astounding. The Lehites brought the writings of Isaiah as well as many other writings which are found in the Old Testament and even some that are not like the book of Zenock and the book of Zenos the Prophet, which had not been heard of in Joseph Smith's day, yet now we find more and more writings which refer to Zenock and Zenos which are not found in the bible. Now how did Joseph guess that right? hmmmmmm......

So the portion of 2nd Nephi which you claim is plagiarizm, was simply Nephi quoting Isaiah because he thought it would be beneficial for us to emphasize. Next question please?

Thanks for not denying that the middle of the BOM is made up of plagiarized sections of the Bible.

One of the more moronic statements I have heard. Unless I am mistaken, Plagiarizing is stealing someones words and using them as your own. uh.....when did that happen. Quoting a source as we all know is not plagiarizing. What the hell is wrong with you?

 

[Truthspeaker]

goddamit. I made the Hubbard/Smith comparison first.


And Abikersailer.. dude.. christianity was a jewish CULT. Stop making dumb fucking statements about muslims and catholics.

Okay Shit Run......you made the statements about Christianity being a Jewish cult.

Back it up motherfucker, you tell others to do the same thing regularly.

 

[catzmeow]

Another major misstatement. Did Hubbard claim to be a Prophet? Did he claim to commune with God face to face? Did he claim to have visions and revelations? Did he claim to translate ancient scripture into English. Was he murdered for his beliefs? Was he tarred and feathered? Was he a great public speaker? Was he a Mormon? Did he claim to perform miracles? Did he have more than one wife? Was he a general? A mayor? Did he have any surgeries performed on him without anaesthetics at the age of 7? Did he grow up in a rural background? Come from a big family? Meet with his followers daily? Teach a sermon immediately after being tarred and feathered? Was he ever tarred and feathered? Was he a Mason? Was he acquitted of one false accusation in court let alone 15? Did he really preach to his people or did he just write books and record tapes?

I have got nothing against the man. I just highly doubt they are similar.

Good point. Clearly, Hubbard was in possession of more of his mental faculties than Joseph Smith, and a lot saner.

Joseph Smith is more like Mohammed, who also had weird sexual tendencies, like having sex with little girls.

 

[Shogun]

goddamit. I made the Hubbard/Smith comparison first.


And Abikersailer.. dude.. christianity was a jewish CULT. Stop making dumb fucking statements about muslims and catholics.

Okay Shit Run......you made the statements about Christianity being a Jewish cult.

Back it up motherfucker, you tell others to do the same thing regularly.

are you fucking serious? Why don't you go ask a practicing Jew that question. For real.



During the late first century, Judaism was a legal religion with the protection of Roman law, worked out in compromise with the Roman state over two centuries. Observant Jews had special rights, including the privilege of abstaining from civic pagan rites. Christians were initially identified with the Jewish religion by the Romans, but as they became more distinct, Christianity became a problem for Roman rulers. Circa 98 the emperor Nerva decreed that Christians did not have to pay the annual tax upon the Jews, effectively recognizing them as distinct from Rabbinic Judaism. This opened the way to Christians being persecuted for disobedience to the emperor, as they refused to worship the state pantheon. It is notable that from c. 98 onwards a distinction between Christians and Jews in Roman literature becomes apparent. For example, Pliny the Younger postulates that Christians are not Jews since they do not pay the tax, in his letters to Trajan.[
History of early Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ABikerSailor]

Ummmm........you DO realize that there was talk among the disciples as to whether or not they would require people to convert to Judaism, right?

Try again Shit Run.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Another major misstatement. Did Hubbard claim to be a Prophet? Did he claim to commune with God face to face? Did he claim to have visions and revelations? Did he claim to translate ancient scripture into English. Was he murdered for his beliefs? Was he tarred and feathered? Was he a great public speaker? Was he a Mormon? Did he claim to perform miracles? Did he have more than one wife? Was he a general? A mayor? Did he have any surgeries performed on him without anaesthetics at the age of 7? Did he grow up in a rural background? Come from a big family? Meet with his followers daily? Teach a sermon immediately after being tarred and feathered? Was he ever tarred and feathered? Was he a Mason? Was he acquitted of one false accusation in court let alone 15? Did he really preach to his people or did he just write books and record tapes?

I have got nothing against the man. I just highly doubt they are similar.

Good point. Clearly, Hubbard was in possession of more of his mental faculties than Joseph Smith, and a lot saner.

Joseph Smith is more like Mohammed, who also had weird sexual tendencies, like having sex with little girls.

source please

 

[catzmeow]

source please

For which claim? That Joseph Smith was a freaky deaky? Or that Mohammed liked little girls?

 

[Shogun]

Ummmm........you DO realize that there was talk among the disciples as to whether or not they would require people to convert to Judaism, right?

Try again Shit Run.

so? Do you think mormons DONT consider themselves CHRISTIANS?




Yet, you don't bat an eye to cal THEM a cult. Gosh, dude.. the bible CLEARLY suggests that jews EVERYWHERE hopped right on board the jesus is the messiah bandwagon, eh?

 

[Truthspeaker]

source please

For which claim? That Joseph Smith was a freaky deaky? Or that Mohammed liked little girls?

I thought you were saying Joseph liked little girls like Mohammed. By the way girls were adults at a much younger age in old times so it might not really qualify as child molestation if the girls were in the later stages of puberty and could make decisions for themselves.
I have seen enough links from people who think Joseph was wacky but show me the one about Mohammed.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I think Rob makes a good point. There isn't much difference between L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.

Another major misstatement. Did Hubbard claim to be a Prophet? Did he claim to commune with God face to face? Did he claim to have visions and revelations? Did he claim to translate ancient scripture into English. Was he murdered for his beliefs? Was he tarred and feathered? Was he a great public speaker? Was he a Mormon? Did he claim to perform miracles? Did he have more than one wife? Was he a general? A mayor? Did he have any surgeries performed on him without anaesthetics at the age of 7? Did he grow up in a rural background? Come from a big family? Meet with his followers daily? Teach a sermon immediately after being tarred and feathered? Was he ever tarred and feathered? Was he a Mason? Was he acquitted of one false accusation in court let alone 15? Did he really preach to his people or did he just write books and record tapes?

I have got nothing against the man. I just highly doubt they are similar.

Did Hubbard claim to be a prophet? Yes. Commune with God face to face? Yes to that also. Revelations and visions? Yep....ask a scientologist sometime about the earth being a prison, and all the souls that were sentenced to here, were placed in a DC-10, flown to earth, and crashed into a volcano, which is what made them able to roam the earth.

Nope.....no ancient scripture was translated.

Great public speaker? Yep. He was a best selling author for crying out loud, and gave lectures quite regularly.

As far as the rest of your bullshit......give it up......Joseph Smith was a pretty bad con man.

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early years

Main article: Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. was born on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith, a poor farm family. After Joseph's birth, they moved to western New York—a region of intense religious activity during the Second Great Awakening—where they continued to farm just outside the town of Palmyra. Although Smith never joined a church during his youth, he did read the Bible and was also influenced by the folk religion of that time and place.[1]

[edit] First Vision

Main article: First Vision

In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]

Smith said that he had been concerned about what denomination to join and prayed in a nearby woods (now called the Sacred Grove). There he had a vision in which he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings of flesh and bone. They told him that no contemporary church was correct in its teachings, and that he should join none of them.[4]

[edit] Golden Plates

Main article: Golden plates

Meanwhile Smith participated in a "craze for treasure hunting."[5]Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was paid to act as a "seer", using seer stones in mostly unsuccessful attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure. [6] Smith's contemporaries describe his process for finding treasure as placing the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.[7] His preferred stone, which some said he also used later to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg, found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.[8]

During this period Smith said he experienced a visitation from an angel named Moroni[9] who directed him to a long-buried book, inscribed on golden plates, which contained a record of God's dealings with ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas. This record, along with other artifacts (including a breastplate and what Smith referred to as the Urim and Thummim), was buried in a hill near his home. On September 22, 1827, Smith said that after four years of waiting and preparation, the angel allowed him to take possession of the plates and other artifacts. Almost immediately thereafter local people tried to discover where the plates were hidden.[10]

Smith left his family farm in October 1825 and was hired by Josiah Stowall, of nearby Chenango county, to search for a Spanish silver mine by gazing at seer stones.[11] In March 1826, Smith was charged with being a "disorderly person and an impostor" by a court in nearby Bainbridge.[12]

Smith also met Emma Hale during this period and married her on January 18, 1827. Emma eventually gave birth to seven children, three of whom died shortly after birth. The Smiths also adopted twins.[13](See Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Try again non-TruthSpeaker.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ummmm........you DO realize that there was talk among the disciples as to whether or not they would require people to convert to Judaism, right?

Try again Shit Run.

so? Do you think mormons DONT consider themselves CHRISTIANS?




Yet, you don't bat an eye to cal THEM a cult. Gosh, dude.. the bible CLEARLY suggests that jews EVERYWHERE hopped right on board the jesus is the messiah bandwagon, eh?

Here we go again with the definition of a cult: followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices.

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL. EVERY CULT IS NOT A WACKO TEXAS CULT.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No, some are whacko Utah cults!

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think Rob makes a good point. There isn't much difference between L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.

Another major misstatement. Did Hubbard claim to be a Prophet? Did he claim to commune with God face to face? Did he claim to have visions and revelations? Did he claim to translate ancient scripture into English. Was he murdered for his beliefs? Was he tarred and feathered? Was he a great public speaker? Was he a Mormon? Did he claim to perform miracles? Did he have more than one wife? Was he a general? A mayor? Did he have any surgeries performed on him without anaesthetics at the age of 7? Did he grow up in a rural background? Come from a big family? Meet with his followers daily? Teach a sermon immediately after being tarred and feathered? Was he ever tarred and feathered? Was he a Mason? Was he acquitted of one false accusation in court let alone 15? Did he really preach to his people or did he just write books and record tapes?

I have got nothing against the man. I just highly doubt they are similar.

Did Hubbard claim to be a prophet? Yes. Commune with God face to face? Yes to that also. Revelations and visions? Yep....ask a scientologist sometime about the earth being a prison, and all the souls that were sentenced to here, were placed in a DC-10, flown to earth, and crashed into a volcano, which is what made them able to roam the earth.
I notice a few similarites but hardly enough to compare them as being the same.
Nope.....no ancient scripture was translated.

Great public speaker? Yep. He was a best selling author Since when is an author a great orator? It doesn't mean he was a great speaker. Most authors don't speak publicly. I don' know if Hubbard did or not but it doesn't make him a great speaker because he can write.for crying out loud, and gave lectures quite regularly.

As far as the rest of your bullshit......give it up......Joseph Smith was a pretty bad con man.

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early years

Main article: Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. was born on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith, a poor farm family. After Joseph's birth, they moved to western New York—a region of intense religious activity during the Second Great Awakening—where they continued to farm just outside the town of Palmyra. Although Smith never joined a church during his youth, he did read the Bible and was also influenced by the folk religion of that time and place.[1]

[edit] First Vision

Main article: First Vision

In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]

Smith said that he had been concerned about what denomination to join and prayed in a nearby woods (now called the Sacred Grove). There he had a vision in which he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings of flesh and bone. They told him that no contemporary church was correct in its teachings, and that he should join none of them.[4]

[edit] Golden Plates

Main article: Golden plates

Meanwhile Smith participated in a "craze for treasure hunting."[5]Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was paid to act as a "seer", using seer stones in mostly unsuccessful attempts to locate lost items and buried treasureHe didn't get any seer stones until he uncovered the Gold plates. . [6] Smith's contemporaries describe his process for finding treasure as placing the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stoneTure but he didn't get any stones until he got the gold plates..[7] His preferred stone, which some said he also used later to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg, found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.He was hired by one of his neighbors to look for a lost silver mine and so Joseph took the job, he may have found the brown egg shaped stone but didn't claim to use it for any supernatural purpose. He was only paid 14 dollars a month for his work check out his own statement from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:
“Was not Joseph Smith a money digger?
“Yes, but it was never a very profitable job for him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it.”

The prophet concludes by saying, “I published the foregoing answers to save myself the trouble of repeating the same a thousand times over and over again.” [8]

During this period Smith said he experienced a visitation from an angel named Moroni[9] who directed him to a long-buried book, inscribed on golden plates, which contained a record of God's dealings with ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas. This record, along with other artifacts (including a breastplate and what Smith referred to as the Urim and Thummim), was buried in a hill near his home. On September 22, 1827, Smith said that after four years of waiting and preparation, the angel allowed him to take possession of the plates and other artifacts. Almost immediately thereafter local people tried to discover where the plates were hidden.[10]It's funny people say they didn't believe him but tried to steal the plates many times.

Smith left his family farm in October 1825 and was hired by Josiah Stowall, of nearby Chenango county, to search for a Spanish silver mine by gazing at seer stones.[11] In March 1826, Smith was charged with being a "disorderly person and an impostor" by a court in nearby Bainbridge.[12]

Smith also met Emma Hale during this period and married her on January 18, 1827. Emma eventually gave birth to seven children, three of whom died shortly after birth. The Smiths also adopted twins.[13](See Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Try again non-TruthSpeaker.

I love your little adolescent plays on words with people names. C'mon do it again, I wanna see what you will call me next.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay......if Smith DIDN'T get the seer stones until after the plates, then why does wiki say that he had them BEFORE?

Oh wait......I got it......it's the great wiki conspiracy against the Moronism people.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Okay......if Smith DIDN'T get the seer stones until after the plates, then why does wiki say that he had them BEFORE?

Oh wait......I got it......it's the great wiki conspiracy against the Moronism people.

Wiki didn't. They said that SOME SAID, that Joseph used the brown stone as a seer stone. But that is nothing more than he said she said. Wiki is only reporting what some(meaning critics) claim. But Joseph never made that claim.

He used the seer stones and the hat after he got them out of the box the plates were buried in.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anyway, what happened to DavidS. He started this thread and now he doesn't want to own the discussion. Why doesn't he ever want to talk to me