The Bible! Do you think a book written by men is perfect?

[Azrael]

The Holy Bible as most know it consist of the Jewish Torah a few other books and then the New Testament which sets Jews and Christians apart.

Most will tell you that God created the Bible because it was inspired by God and then men through the will of God wrote down the Word of God.
The truth is it was still written by men, God or no God.
The Bible its self claims that people are not perfect and if we are not perfect how can a book written by us be perfect?
My answer is that it can't be perfect as it is man made, the same thing goes for all other holy books and scriptures.
How then if a book can't tell what God wants can you truly know? The answer is that from your own experience with the divine you will eventually get a feeling of what god wants from you.
While the Bible can provide some moral guidance it does have its contradictions and quite a few of them to boot.
Most notably is that one of the ten commandments tells us to hold God above all else and not to have Idols.
But what most Christians have done is they have broken that commandment by placing their idea of Jesus Christ on a pedestal above God whom truly does deserve praise.
The early church fathers believed or at least professed to believe in the Trinity the concept that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same. They even snuck in their own beliefs into the scriptures yet a portion of the truth still got through - "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone." - Luke 18:19 " Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." - Matthew 4:10

In case you do not realize it, I don't believe in the trinity but I do believe Jesus was The Son of God but they are not the same and God is the one who deserves worship.
The Worship of Jesus is a SIN! I am simply a non-traditional christian as I do not fit into any denominations of any kind.

Also regardless of what some may think God still speaks to some people it's just that we have grown tired of always writing down every thing we think god wants us to.

 

[Thete]

I think you make a lot of sense. In my opinion, Jesus wanted people to turn more to Yahve and change their cold hearts.

I do not believe that Jesus wanted to make himself as big of an idol as he later became.

 

[Azrael]

I don't think he even wanted to be an Idol, I think other people did that themselves all together.

If he did want the praise then he was not a Saint and he himself would have been the anti-Christ.
If Christians start world war 3 and end the world perhaps Jesus was the anti-christ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Holy Bible as most know it consist of the Jewish Torah a few other books and then the New Testament which sets Jews and Christians apart.

Most will tell you that God created the Bible because it was inspired by God and then men through the will of God wrote down the Word of God.

Most will tell you that? Is that like some people say?

The truth is it was still written by men, God or no God.

Yet you feel a need to speak up and try to prove something, why?

The Bible its self claims that people are not perfect and if we are not perfect how can a book written by us be perfect?

There is a different between perfect and inerrant, which is actually waht most Christians believe about the Bible.

My answer is that it can't be perfect as it is man made, the same thing goes for all other holy books and scriptures.

Muslims would disagree with you, and kill you for arguing with them.

How then if a book can't tell what God wants can you truly know? The answer is that from your own experience with the divine you will eventually get a feeling of what god wants from you.

How do you jump from the Bible not being perfect to it not being able to tell you what God wants?

While the Bible can provide some moral guidance it does have its contradictions and quite a few of them to boot.

I bet you can't find any of them without resorting to Google, and that you think that makes you smarter than me.

Most notably is that one of the ten commandments tells us to hold God above all else and not to have Idols.

I don't see a contradiction there.

But what most Christians have done is they have broken that commandment by placing their idea of Jesus Christ on a pedestal above God whom truly does deserve praise.

Most Christians put Jesus as equal to God because they believe he is God. Regardless, that is still not a contradiction in the Bible, that is a conflict between how you interpret it and how they do.

The early church fathers believed or at least professed to believe in the Trinity the concept that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same. They even snuck in their own beliefs into the scriptures yet a portion of the truth still got through - "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone." - Luke 18:19 " Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." - Matthew 4:10

Actually, the church fathers believed no such thing.

In case you do not realize it, I don't believe in the trinity but I do believe Jesus was The Son of God but they are not the same and God is the one who deserves worship.

D'oh.

The Worship of Jesus is a SIN! I am simply a non-traditional christian as I do not fit into any denominations of any kind.

You just proved you have no idea what some of the denominations teach. Niot a big surprise to me, since you already proved how little you know.

Also regardless of what some may think God still speaks to some people it's just that we have grown tired of always writing down every thing we think god wants us to.

Are you claiming to be a prophet, or schizophrenic?

 

[Douger]

It's only another script for human enslavement.
Why do you think the rich Hindus made the cow sacred ? So the serfs wouldn't steal them.

 

[Azrael]

The Holy Bible as most know it consist of the Jewish Torah a few other books and then the New Testament which sets Jews and Christians apart.

Most will tell you that God created the Bible because it was inspired by God and then men through the will of God wrote down the Word of God.

Most will tell you that? Is that like some people say?

The truth is it was still written by men, God or no God.

Yet you feel a need to speak up and try to prove something, why?



There is a different between perfect and inerrant, which is actually waht most Christians believe about the Bible.



Muslims would disagree with you, and kill you for arguing with them.



How do you jump from the Bible not being perfect to it not being able to tell you what God wants?



I bet you can't find any of them without resorting to Google, and that you think that makes you smarter than me.



I don't see a contradiction there.



Most Christians put Jesus as equal to God because they believe he is God. Regardless, that is still not a contradiction in the Bible, that is a conflict between how you interpret it and how they do.



Actually, the church fathers believed no such thing.



D'oh.

The Worship of Jesus is a SIN! I am simply a non-traditional christian as I do not fit into any denominations of any kind.

You just proved you have no idea what some of the denominations teach. Niot a big surprise to me, since you already proved how little you know.

Also regardless of what some may think God still speaks to some people it's just that we have grown tired of always writing down every thing we think god wants us to.

Are you claiming to be a prophet, or schizophrenic?

I simple don't think it can be relied upon by it's self to understand God I think you also need to try to follow all the commandments and establish a relationship with God in order to fully understand what God wants from you. There are also times when we can't begin to understand God as we only know what he would want us to know.

I realize how radical allot of Muslims are but I know a few that have spoken with me and agreed with what I had to say.

Also the contradiction I was talking about was the Idol worship of Jesus Christ.

Some times I do have to use google and no I do not think I am better than you are. You are probably older and I have not taken the time to memorize the Bible. When I use the internet I use a real Bible next to me to check the verse to make sure it's real. Do you think that a person waning to learn new information should ignore the internet?

I thought the people who wrote the new testament believed that Jesus was God, am I wrong, and in the trinity. If you wish to see it as different interpretations then so be it. But I will always think worshiping him is a sin which is why I felt compelled to tell some one how I felt.

If there's a denomination that shares how I feel then please tell me? R do you mean I said something that wasn't true if so please tell me?

I am not crazy and I will not tell you dooms day prophecies either but I do believe that I get messages from God in the form of dreams.

If am not mistaken most of the contradictions are the Old VS the New Testament I know their there but darn it I might have to use google to remember. LOL

Your probably a theologian I am just an Art Student. You tell me where the contradictions are I am sure you know their there. Wasn't there some thing about needing to be circumcised in the old testament and then in the new testament they claim it's okay to not be?

 

[Avatar4321]

The Bible doesn't claim to be perfect. Not sure why we should ascribe to it something it never claims. It's merely a collection of God's interactions with man throughout the space of thousands of years. It contains the Word of God. It also contains the words of the devil, of good men, and of bad men. And it contains the words of an ass.

The real question you hit on toward the middle of your post: How then if a book can't tell what God wants can you truly know?

The answer is simple. You can know from God. That's how Peter learned that Jesus was the Christ. That's how the Ancient Prophets and Apostles learned the Plan of Happiness. That's how He teaches man today. "If any of you lack wisdom, Let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not and it shall be given unto him" (James 1:5)

I know the Bible is true only because my personal experiences with God. The Holy Spirit revealed it to me at the same time He taught me the Book of Mormon was true and that the Gospel has been restored in these latter days.

And the beauty of the Gospel is you don't have to take my word for it. God is willing to reveal Himself to those that seek Him. You can find out for yourself whether He is there and what His will is.

 

[Azrael]

Oh I am monotheist and I do KNOW Gods out there, I wont lie and tell you fake prophecies but I do believe that I have received personal advice from God in the form of dreams.

 

[Thete]

I thought the people who wrote the new testament believed that Jesus was God, am I wrong, and in the trinity.

I think that it's hard to speak of the "people who wrote the New Testament", because the people who wrote the gospels or the letters now in NT never wrote those texts so that they would be included into a canon called "The New Testament". Also, some of Paul's letters have been written somewhat 100 years earlier that the newest texts in the NT which makes it even harder to generalize about the writers of the books now in NT.

 

[Old_Liberal]

The Holy Bible as most know it consist of the Jewish Torah a few other books and then the New Testament which sets Jews and Christians apart.

Most will tell you that God created the Bible because it was inspired by God and then men through the will of God wrote down the Word of God.
The truth is it was still written by men, God or no God.
The Bible its self claims that people are not perfect and if we are not perfect how can a book written by us be perfect?
My answer is that it can't be perfect as it is man made, the same thing goes for all other holy books and scriptures.
How then if a book can't tell what God wants can you truly know? The answer is that from your own experience with the divine you will eventually get a feeling of what god wants from you.
While the Bible can provide some moral guidance it does have its contradictions and quite a few of them to boot.
Most notably is that one of the ten commandments tells us to hold God above all else and not to have Idols.
But what most Christians have done is they have broken that commandment by placing their idea of Jesus Christ on a pedestal above God whom truly does deserve praise.
The early church fathers believed or at least professed to believe in the Trinity the concept that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same. They even snuck in their own beliefs into the scriptures yet a portion of the truth still got through - "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone." - Luke 18:19 " Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." - Matthew 4:10

In case you do not realize it, I don't believe in the trinity but I do believe Jesus was The Son of God but they are not the same and God is the one who deserves worship.
The Worship of Jesus is a SIN! I am simply a non-traditional christian as I do not fit into any denominations of any kind.

Also regardless of what some may think God still speaks to some people it's just that we have grown tired of always writing down every thing we think god wants us to.

I see God and Christ as one. I see a truly reborn human as one with God. This is the message of Christ also.

This idea of the trinity as understood by most people is bullshit. There is only one God, if you want to call IT, God. And this God is spiritual. God is life. Therefore God is in all life and without him, there is no life.

God is in man, but he may as well not be. The creation of the self, the ego, takes on more importance than that God that is within you. That ego has to die, to use christ's words, but this death happens when intelligence sees the ego for what it really is. An illusion created by thought. Afterall, your identity is based upon stored thoughts, build up over time. The ego is not real, when compared to that which is in you, that is real. Yet for some reason, the ego rules in most lives. It is a very powerful entitiy, this ego, this self.

Christ taught of a revolution in consciousness. That was his great message to mankind. That the kingdom was at hand, or within reach. That the kingdom was within, not outside. Yet few "got it" and those who did not get it, organized their misunderstanding into a religion. And just look at all of the evils, the sins, committed in the name of God! No sir, this
isn't what Christ came to let us in on. Not at all.

 

[Old_Liberal]

I thought the people who wrote the new testament believed that Jesus was God, am I wrong, and in the trinity.

I think that it's hard to speak of the "people who wrote the New Testament", because the people who wrote the gospels or the letters now in NT never wrote those texts so that they would be included into a canon called "The New Testament". Also, some of Paul's letters have been written somewhat 100 years earlier that the newest texts in the NT which makes it even harder to generalize about the writers of the books now in NT.

Paul corrupted the teachings of christ, at times. I think Paul has a lot more influence on christianity today than Christ's teachings.

For me, having read all of the bible several times, it seem to me that the only important information is in red letters, or the actual words and teachings of christ. That SHOULD be all that anyone would need, if one is serious about Christ and what he said.

I think that his crowd remembered many of his teachings and those were eventually written down. But I have to wonder if any of those original 12, minus Judas, ever were reborn, or ever really understood what christ was trying to teach them. I do no think there is one book in the NT written by one of the 12. Perhaps there is a reason for this. Perhaps the message of Christ did not need another book like the Torah. TO NOT provide a new scripture in which people could search for eternal life, as Christ once referred to.

I believe that once you get past the words of Christ, everything else is to be distrusted. And since it is these other books that turn christ into an idol, it seems clear to me that this could only come from not understanding the message of christ.

 

[amrchaos]

I think you make a lot of sense. In my opinion, Jesus wanted people to turn more to Yahve and change their cold hearts.

I do not believe that Jesus wanted to make himself as big of an idol as he later became.

Maybe there was no choice.

Who would you respect more? Who would you likely follow?

A man that can move mountains?
Or a man that is moved by the wind?

The exaltation of religious figures is done to gain attention. It is like yelling, "Hey, this man is important! Come hear what he has to say!"


That is why there are stories of the Buddha performing miracles although Buddhism itself professes no actual god. All to get people to pay attention.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Holy Bible as most know it consist of the Jewish Torah a few other books and then the New Testament which sets Jews and Christians apart.

Most will tell you that God created the Bible because it was inspired by God and then men through the will of God wrote down the Word of God.
The truth is it was still written by men, God or no God.
The Bible its self claims that people are not perfect and if we are not perfect how can a book written by us be perfect?
My answer is that it can't be perfect as it is man made, the same thing goes for all other holy books and scriptures.
How then if a book can't tell what God wants can you truly know? The answer is that from your own experience with the divine you will eventually get a feeling of what god wants from you.
While the Bible can provide some moral guidance it does have its contradictions and quite a few of them to boot.
Most notably is that one of the ten commandments tells us to hold God above all else and not to have Idols.
But what most Christians have done is they have broken that commandment by placing their idea of Jesus Christ on a pedestal above God whom truly does deserve praise.
The early church fathers believed or at least professed to believe in the Trinity the concept that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same. They even snuck in their own beliefs into the scriptures yet a portion of the truth still got through - "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone." - Luke 18:19 " Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." - Matthew 4:10

In case you do not realize it, I don't believe in the trinity but I do believe Jesus was The Son of God but they are not the same and God is the one who deserves worship.
The Worship of Jesus is a SIN! I am simply a non-traditional christian as I do not fit into any denominations of any kind.

Also regardless of what some may think God still speaks to some people it's just that we have grown tired of always writing down every thing we think god wants us to.

OK, you believe that Jesus was the Son of God. So, you believe in the father, and the son, as a duet, but not in the Holy Spirit, the power pac of God?
What do you know about the Son of God, aside from what is in the Bible, and your own imagination, that lends credence to the fact that you believe He is the Son of God? How do you know who you are "feeling"?

Don't feel your way to God. You have no way/knowledge to discern whether it's God you are communing with or Satan. When the disciples ask Jesus how to tell the difference, he said my sheep know my voice. You can't hear his voice. He's not here right now, but you can hear what he said to the people around him while he was here.
There is no need to worry about the Bible being man made because man does not have the ability to predict the future. The Bible is 1/4 prophesy, so that WE would KNOW it is the inspired word of God.
Jesus is the one that deserves the credit, and God wants it that way, because Jesus is the one that paid the price for our creepy sins. If it wasn't for Jesus, we would have no way to access our father. Sin separates us from our Father. Christ united us, when he removed the sin from us and transfered it to himself.
Jesus is all the love God has for us, transformed into a human form, to carry out the plan that removes us from Satan's grasp. God transformed all of his power into yet a third entity with specific duties. It is no different than Sybil fracturing her abilities, into different personalities, except God was able to physically separate his abilities, according to their role.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I simple don't think it can be relied upon by it's self to understand God I think you also need to try to follow all the commandments and establish a relationship with God in order to fully understand what God wants from you. There are also times when we can't begin to understand God as we only know what he would want us to know.

Who said it could?

I realize how radical allot of Muslims are but I know a few that have spoken with me and agreed with what I had to say.

Doesn't change the fact that people will kill you?

Also the contradiction I was talking about was the Idol worship of Jesus Christ.

Which is not a contradiction in the Bible.

Some times I do have to use google and no I do not think I am better than you are. You are probably older and I have not taken the time to memorize the Bible. When I use the internet I use a real Bible next to me to check the verse to make sure it's real. Do you think that a person waning to learn new information should ignore the internet?

If you want to talk about a subject you should know it well enough not to need Google. Until you reach the point that you can talk about the Bible without needing help you should not try to talk about the contradictions in the Bible, especially when you are actually talking about the differences between what people are doing and what you believe the Bible teaches.

I thought the people who wrote the new testament believed that Jesus was God, am I wrong, and in the trinity. If you wish to see it as different interpretations then so be it. But I will always think worshiping him is a sin which is why I felt compelled to tell some one how I felt.

Why do you think that? Just because people believe that now does not mean they believed it 2000 years ago.

You should also be aware that the church fathers did not write the New Testament, the apostles did. The church fathers were the second and third generation of the disciples, many of them studied under the various apostles.

If there's a denomination that shares how I feel then please tell me? R do you mean I said something that wasn't true if so please tell me?

I do not know what you believe exactly so I cannot tell you which denomination believes what you do. I can tell you that there are denominations that teach that the trinity is false doctrine, the most notable of them being Jehovah's Witnesses.

I am not crazy and I will not tell you dooms day prophecies either but I do believe that I get messages from God in the form of dreams.

That makes you crazy by most definitions.

If am not mistaken most of the contradictions are the Old VS the New Testament I know their there but darn it I might have to use google to remember. LOL

Most of the contradictions are actually between the two historical tracks of the Old Testament.

Your probably a theologian I am just an Art Student. You tell me where the contradictions are I am sure you know their there. Wasn't there some thing about needing to be circumcised in the old testament and then in the new testament they claim it's okay to not be?

Circumcision is a sign of the covenant between Abraham and his descendents and God. That covenant is not the same one Christians operate under. That is not a contradiction.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I thought the people who wrote the new testament believed that Jesus was God, am I wrong, and in the trinity.

I think that it's hard to speak of the "people who wrote the New Testament", because the people who wrote the gospels or the letters now in NT never wrote those texts so that they would be included into a canon called "The New Testament". Also, some of Paul's letters have been written somewhat 100 years earlier that the newest texts in the NT which makes it even harder to generalize about the writers of the books now in NT.

Where did you get your theology degree? There is plenty of evidence that Luke is the one that actually wrote both Luke and Acts, and that Paul wrote the epistles ascribed to him. You should study textual criticism before you make pronouncements about who wrote what, or when they were written.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Thete, Either you are pulling our leg or you graduated in the lower fifty percentile of your class.

 

[Obamerican]

If "God" really wanted us to believe in Him He wouldn't play this big guessing game. Would a real "God" expect a civilized world to accept the writings of a bunch of goat herders and the like and then expect us to accept it on blind faith? If He does than He is setting up most of the population to fail.

A TRUE supreme being wouldn't play these stupid mind games. Keep analyzing people. You're wasting your time.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If "God" really wanted us to believe in Him He wouldn't play this big guessing game. Would a real "God" expect a civilized world to accept the writings of a bunch of goat herders and the like and then expect us to accept it on blind faith? If He does than He is setting up most of the population to fail.

A TRUE supreme being wouldn't play these stupid mind games. Keep analyzing people. You're wasting your time.

What makes you smarter than goat herders? Can you find your way using only the stars?

 

[Obamerican]

If "God" really wanted us to believe in Him He wouldn't play this big guessing game. Would a real "God" expect a civilized world to accept the writings of a bunch of goat herders and the like and then expect us to accept it on blind faith? If He does than He is setting up most of the population to fail.

A TRUE supreme being wouldn't play these stupid mind games. Keep analyzing people. You're wasting your time.

What makes you smarter than goat herders? Can you find your way using only the stars?

Actually I can. I was in Search and Rescue for years and most modern techniques are based on old "technology".

Keep defending goat herders. Are you sure that all of them knew how to use the stars to get around or did most of them follow the "smart ones"?

 

[The Irish Ram]

If "God" really wanted us to believe in Him He wouldn't play this big guessing game. Would a real "God" expect a civilized world to accept the writings of a bunch of goat herders and the like and then expect us to accept it on blind faith? If He does than He is setting up most of the population to fail.

A TRUE supreme being wouldn't play these stupid mind games. Keep analyzing people. You're wasting your time.

What makes you smarter than goat herders? Can you find your way using only the stars?

Actually I can. I was in Search and Rescue for years and most modern techniques are based on old "technology".

Keep defending goat herders. Are you sure that all of them knew how to use the stars to get around or did most of them follow the "smart ones"?

If most modern techniques are based on old "technology", then those "goat herders" were a little smarter than you are giving them credit for.
Can you build a perfect pyramid, without the aid of Pyramids for Dummies?