CDZ The best strategy, disarming law abiding gun owners, or keeping criminals locked up.

[2aguy]

You....are lucky this is the CDZ.......you want to sue the gun makers who do not sell their guns to criminals...yet you pretend distilleries are not in the exact same position in relation to drunk driving that you claim gun makers are......again, you are lucky you are in the CDZ....

Not at all-

The Gun Makers know darned well their products are getting to the bad guys, otherwise they would be insisting on tighter gun control. In fact, before Wayne LaPierre hijacked the NRA, the NRA supported tighter gun laws.

BUt this funny thing happened. People stopped hunting. The gun makers were in a quandary. How do you get people to buy something that - as you point out- they will never, really use. (Even if you buy your 1 million DGU's a year, that means you have 299 million guns that were never used. )

Well, if you had lots and lots of crime, that will scare them, really good.

I would like to see us go through S&W and Colt's and Remington's internal memos, the way we went through Phillip-Morris's...

But as you say, lucky this is the CDZ.

As do the booze makers...whose product destroys more lives every year than every gun does.....the booze makers know their product destroys lives...

So if you want to sue gun makers who have no connection to any crime, then the booze makers go next.....law suit for every drunk driving death, for every suicide, for every accidental death....

That is what you want....


Then the car makers....who know their products kill more people every year than guns.....guns...through intentional illegal action...10, 265 in 2018......over 38,000 car deaths.....

 

[Blues Man]

You....are lucky this is the CDZ.......you want to sue the gun makers who do not sell their guns to criminals...yet you pretend distilleries are not in the exact same position in relation to drunk driving that you claim gun makers are......again, you are lucky you are in the CDZ....

Not at all-

The Gun Makers know darned well their products are getting to the bad guys, otherwise they would be insisting on tighter gun control. In fact, before Wayne LaPierre hijacked the NRA, the NRA supported tighter gun laws.

BUt this funny thing happened. People stopped hunting. The gun makers were in a quandary. How do you get people to buy something that - as you point out- they will never, really use. (Even if you buy your 1 million DGU's a year, that means you have 299 million guns that were never used. )

Well, if you had lots and lots of crime, that will scare them, really good.

I would like to see us go through S&W and Colt's and Remington's internal memos, the way we went through Phillip-Morris's...

But as you say, lucky this is the CDZ.

As do the booze makers...whose product destroys more lives every year than every gun does.....the booze makers know their product destroys lives...

So if you want to sue gun makers who have no connection to any crime, then the booze makers go next.....law suit for every drunk driving death, for every suicide, for every accidental death....

That is what you want....


Then the car makers....who know their products kill more people every year than guns.....guns...through intentional illegal action...10, 265 in 2018......over 38,000 car deaths.....

But the booze makers put label on their bottles warning of the dangers of excessive alcohol use that mean they care

 

[JoeB131]

As do the booze makers...whose product destroys more lives every year than every gun does.....the booze makers know their product destroys lives...

So if you want to sue gun makers who have no connection to any crime, then the booze makers go next.....law suit for every drunk driving death, for every suicide, for every accidental death....

Again, the Booze Makers are responsible... and promote responsible use of their product.

The Gun makers- they've been flooding our streets with guns and specifically marketing to the craziest people out there.

But the booze makers put label on their bottles warning of the dangers of excessive alcohol use that mean they care

They do a lot more than that... such as supporting safeserve laws and training for bartenders and alcohol servers, public service announcements against drunk driving and so on.

Here's the point.. yeah, a guy who abuses alcohol might kill himself in 30+ years of self abuse... I guess.

A gun nut can mow down a room full of people in a few minutes... and the gun industry does nothing to keep the gun away from THAT guy.

 

[2aguy]

As do the booze makers...whose product destroys more lives every year than every gun does.....the booze makers know their product destroys lives...

So if you want to sue gun makers who have no connection to any crime, then the booze makers go next.....law suit for every drunk driving death, for every suicide, for every accidental death....

Again, the Booze Makers are responsible... and promote responsible use of their product.

The Gun makers- they've been flooding our streets with guns and specifically marketing to the craziest people out there.

But the booze makers put label on their bottles warning of the dangers of excessive alcohol use that mean they care

They do a lot more than that... such as supporting safeserve laws and training for bartenders and alcohol servers, public service announcements against drunk driving and so on.

Here's the point.. yeah, a guy who abuses alcohol might kill himself in 30+ years of self abuse... I guess.

A gun nut can mow down a room full of people in a few minutes... and the gun industry does nothing to keep the gun away from THAT guy.

It is amazing that you defend the booze makers who drive domestic violence, drunk driving and cause more death and destruction than criminals do with guns...and, in fact, their booze exacerbates the criminal behavior.....

Mass public shootings in 2018...... 12.

Total killed...93.

over 10,000 in drunk driving accidents......booze makers are more responsible for death and destruction than gun makers........gun makers are also responsible for good, normal people using their product 1.1 million times a year to save lives.......booze doesn't save any lives....

 

[JoeB131]

It is amazing that you defend the booze makers who drive domestic violence, drunk driving and cause more death and destruction than criminals do with guns...and, in fact, their booze exacerbates the criminal behavior.....

Again, if you are going to keep lying about how much damage your gun fetish causes, I'm not sure if there is any point talking to you.


33,000 gun deaths.

Number of deaths due to Drunk Driving... 29 a day, so yeah, 10K is actually about right. Wow... you came up with a number that wasn't totally nonsense.

So let's look at that. We have a LOT of enforcement of the drunk driving laws. Cops out there looking for them, bartenders trained in SafeServe. The Alcohol industry itself doing quite a lot to promote safe use.

Compared to the Gun Industry and the National Rampage Association... when every time there is a mass shooting, it's pretty much ALL HANDS ON DECK to keep even the most basic, common sense gun law from being passed.

If the Alcohol Industry acted like the Gun Industry, I'd be for re-instituting the 18th Amendment.

 

[2aguy]

It is amazing that you defend the booze makers who drive domestic violence, drunk driving and cause more death and destruction than criminals do with guns...and, in fact, their booze exacerbates the criminal behavior.....

Again, if you are going to keep lying about how much damage your gun fetish causes, I'm not sure if there is any point talking to you.


33,000 gun deaths.

Number of deaths due to Drunk Driving... 29 a day, so yeah, 10K is actually about right. Wow... you came up with a number that wasn't totally nonsense.

So let's look at that. We have a LOT of enforcement of the drunk driving laws. Cops out there looking for them, bartenders trained in SafeServe. The Alcohol industry itself doing quite a lot to promote safe use.

Compared to the Gun Industry and the National Rampage Association... when every time there is a mass shooting, it's pretty much ALL HANDS ON DECK to keep even the most basic, common sense gun law from being passed.

If the Alcohol Industry acted like the Gun Industry, I'd be for re-instituting the 18th Amendment.

You used gun suicides....which we keep showing you have nothing to do with gun murder.....

Gun murder in 2018,,,10,265, the majority of which are criminals murdering other criminals.

Guns used to save lives 1.1 million times a year...

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Why do you defend the booze industry when they kill more people and damage more lives than guns do...without the benefit of saving 1.1 million lives a year the way guns do?

 

[JoeB131]

You used gun suicides....which we keep showing you have nothing to do with gun murder.....

If it involves a gun and a dead person, it does....

Guns used to save lives 1.1 million times a year...

Nope, that's still a bs number, and always will be. You'd have to believe that you guys pull out your "compensation" 1,999,800 times a year without killing anyone. Given how often you guys opine about your desire to off you a darkie committing a "crime", and that happy day comes when you can finally do it, and you don't.

Doesn't pass the laugh test.

Why do you defend the booze industry when they kill more people and damage more lives than guns do...without the benefit of saving 1.1 million lives a year the way guns do?

There is no benefit to guns.. In fact, guns are kind of useless. Even if I were to accept your 1.1 MM figure (I don't), then the other 300 million guns are never used.. Why buy something you won't use, ever?

Well, because the NRA has spent a very long time scaring the crap out of you by flooding our streets with guns.

 

[Blues Man]

As do the booze makers...whose product destroys more lives every year than every gun does.....the booze makers know their product destroys lives...

So if you want to sue gun makers who have no connection to any crime, then the booze makers go next.....law suit for every drunk driving death, for every suicide, for every accidental death....

Again, the Booze Makers are responsible... and promote responsible use of their product.

The Gun makers- they've been flooding our streets with guns and specifically marketing to the craziest people out there.

But the booze makers put label on their bottles warning of the dangers of excessive alcohol use that mean they care

They do a lot more than that... such as supporting safeserve laws and training for bartenders and alcohol servers, public service announcements against drunk driving and so on.

Here's the point.. yeah, a guy who abuses alcohol might kill himself in 30+ years of self abuse... I guess.

A gun nut can mow down a room full of people in a few minutes... and the gun industry does nothing to keep the gun away from THAT guy.

Alcohol kills more people every year than guns.

Maybe we should ban it

Oh yeah we already tried that

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[Blues Man]

You used gun suicides....which we keep showing you have nothing to do with gun murder.....

If it involves a gun and a dead person, it does....

Guns used to save lives 1.1 million times a year...

Nope, that's still a bs number, and always will be. You'd have to believe that you guys pull out your "compensation" 1,999,800 times a year without killing anyone. Given how often you guys opine about your desire to off you a darkie committing a "crime", and that happy day comes when you can finally do it, and you don't.

Doesn't pass the laugh test.

Why do you defend the booze industry when they kill more people and damage more lives than guns do...without the benefit of saving 1.1 million lives a year the way guns do?

There is no benefit to guns.. In fact, guns are kind of useless. Even if I were to accept your 1.1 MM figure (I don't), then the other 300 million guns are never used.. Why buy something you won't use, ever?

Well, because the NRA has spent a very long time scaring the crap out of you by flooding our streets with guns.

I have never used my homeowners insurance I guess I should drop it huh?

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[2aguy]

You used gun suicides....which we keep showing you have nothing to do with gun murder.....

If it involves a gun and a dead person, it does....

Guns used to save lives 1.1 million times a year...

Nope, that's still a bs number, and always will be. You'd have to believe that you guys pull out your "compensation" 1,999,800 times a year without killing anyone. Given how often you guys opine about your desire to off you a darkie committing a "crime", and that happy day comes when you can finally do it, and you don't.

Doesn't pass the laugh test.

Why do you defend the booze industry when they kill more people and damage more lives than guns do...without the benefit of saving 1.1 million lives a year the way guns do?

There is no benefit to guns.. In fact, guns are kind of useless. Even if I were to accept your 1.1 MM figure (I don't), then the other 300 million guns are never used.. Why buy something you won't use, ever?

Well, because the NRA has spent a very long time scaring the crap out of you by flooding our streets with guns.

17 separate studies into gun self defense....and you claim they are all wrong......because you know better......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

It is amazing that you defend the booze makers who drive domestic violence, drunk driving and cause more death and destruction than criminals do with guns...and, in fact, their booze exacerbates the criminal behavior.....

Again, if you are going to keep lying about how much damage your gun fetish causes, I'm not sure if there is any point talking to you.


33,000 gun deaths.

Number of deaths due to Drunk Driving... 29 a day, so yeah, 10K is actually about right. Wow... you came up with a number that wasn't totally nonsense.

So let's look at that. We have a LOT of enforcement of the drunk driving laws. Cops out there looking for them, bartenders trained in SafeServe. The Alcohol industry itself doing quite a lot to promote safe use.

Compared to the Gun Industry and the National Rampage Association... when every time there is a mass shooting, it's pretty much ALL HANDS ON DECK to keep even the most basic, common sense gun law from being passed.

If the Alcohol Industry acted like the Gun Industry, I'd be for re-instituting the 18th Amendment.

You lie everytime you include suicides in gun murder statistics.......

Gun murder in the U.S....1018... 10,265....

Car deaths due to booze...over 10,874....

Drunk Driving Fatality Statistics.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 37,133 people died in traffic crashes in 2017 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,874 people who were killed in drunk driving crashes involving a driver with an illegal BAC (.08 or greater). Among the people killed in these drunk driving crashes, 68% (7,368) were in crashes in which at least one driver in the crash had a BAC of .15 or higher.

 

[JoeB131]

Alcohol kills more people every year than guns.

No, it really doesn't.. but you go, girl.

17 separate studies into gun self defense....and you claim they are all wrong......because you know better....

Yup... I know that it's very unlikely that gun nuts could pull out your guns millions of times and not shoot anyone.

 

[2aguy]

Alcohol kills more people every year than guns.

No, it really doesn't.. but you go, girl.

17 separate studies into gun self defense....and you claim they are all wrong......because you know better....

Yup... I know that it's very unlikely that gun nuts could pull out your guns millions of times and not shoot anyone.

No...it isn't, since normal people are not looking to shoot, much less kill other human beings. The majority of these cases the criminals run away once the victim displays the gun, or they surrender. It is only the tiniest number of criminals who are dumb enough to press the attack against a victim who has a gun.

 

[Blues Man]

Alcohol kills more people every year than guns.

No, it really doesn't.. but you go, girl.

17 separate studies into gun self defense....and you claim they are all wrong......because you know better....

Yup... I know that it's very unlikely that gun nuts could pull out your guns millions of times and not shoot anyone.

According to the CDC 88000 people die as a result of excessive alcohol use annually

Alcohol Facts and Statistics

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[JoeB131]

According to the CDC 88000 people die as a result of excessive alcohol use annually

Yeah, um... okay... they die after years and years of abuse... not really getting worked up... we all die of something.

We shouldn't die because some lunatic compensating for his shortcomings decided to shoot up wherever we happened to be that day.

 

[JoeB131]

No...it isn't, since normal people are not looking to shoot, much less kill other human beings.

Normal people don't own guns or want them.... We aren't talking about normal people. We aren't even talking about average gun owners, who bought a gun back in the Oughts, put it in his closet and maybe takes it out once a year.

We are talking about that 3% of the population that owns 50% of the guns, joins the National Rampage Association, and spends all day thinking about how he needs him more guns to fights the government or the darkies or the zombies or whatever.

If your figures were right, we'd have a lot more dead bodies on the ground.

 

[2aguy]

No...it isn't, since normal people are not looking to shoot, much less kill other human beings.

Normal people don't own guns or want them.... We aren't talking about normal people. We aren't even talking about average gun owners, who bought a gun back in the Oughts, put it in his closet and maybe takes it out once a year.

We are talking about that 3% of the population that owns 50% of the guns, joins the National Rampage Association, and spends all day thinking about how he needs him more guns to fights the government or the darkies or the zombies or whatever.

If your figures were right, we'd have a lot more dead bodies on the ground.

Over 18.6 million people now carry guns for self defense......and our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Nothing you say is based in truth, facts or reality.

Normal people own guns. They do not use them for crime. Of the 10,265 gun murder victims, the majority of them are criminals murdered by other criminals....meanwhile, normal gun owners use their legal guns to stop crime 1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease Control...or, if you prefer, the Department of Justice put that number at 1.5 million times a year.

You do not know what you are talking about.

 

[2aguy]

Alcohol kills more people every year than guns.

No, it really doesn't.. but you go, girl.

17 separate studies into gun self defense....and you claim they are all wrong......because you know better....

Yup... I know that it's very unlikely that gun nuts could pull out your guns millions of times and not shoot anyone.

According to the CDC 88000 people die as a result of excessive alcohol use annually

Alcohol Facts and Statistics

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It is interesting how defensive he became when we talked about booze.....

 

[JoeB131]

Over 18.6 million people now carry guns for self defense......and our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Again, not interested in your dubious figures, Guy. Gun Murder rates hit a high in 2017.

 

[Blues Man]

According to the CDC 88000 people die as a result of excessive alcohol use annually

Yeah, um... okay... they die after years and years of abuse... not really getting worked up... we all die of something.

We shouldn't die because some lunatic compensating for his shortcomings decided to shoot up wherever we happened to be that day.

So what dead is dead

And let's not forget that the 88 thousand does not include other alcohol related death from drunk driving and other situations where alcohol was a factor

And you have a 99.997 percent chance of not getting murdered by a person with a gun

So if you're worried about that then it is you who are the one with the problem

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