CDZ The best strategy, disarming law abiding gun owners, or keeping criminals locked up.

[JoeB131]

No 2A has stated and provided links repeatedly that most people who commit crimes with guns have already been in prison for other offenses, many of them violent offenses.

And if the guy who was packing was doing it ILLEGALLY the motherfucker should go to prison shouldn't he?

2A spends a lot of time flooding threads with NRA propaganda, and I ignore most of it...

We already lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million on parole and probation. We've tried the Prison Industrial Complex, and it doesn't work.

 

[Blues Man]

No 2A has stated and provided links repeatedly that most people who commit crimes with guns have already been in prison for other offenses, many of them violent offenses.

And if the guy who was packing was doing it ILLEGALLY the motherfucker should go to prison shouldn't he?

2A spends a lot of time flooding threads with NRA propaganda, and I ignore most of it...

We already lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million on parole and probation. We've tried the Prison Industrial Complex, and it doesn't work.

And over 2/3 of those people have not been convicted of any crime.

If we change our arraignment and bail policies and offer alternate sentencing for nonviolent criminals we could easily reduce the prison population by 2\3

 

[JoeB131]

And over 2/3 of those people have not been convicted of any crime.

If we change our arraignment and bail policies and offer alternate sentencing for nonviolent criminals we could easily reduce the prison population by 2\3

But I;m not sure that's an answer.

Who is more dangerous... the "non-violent offender" who cheats an old person out of his life savings promising to do repairs with his fake home repair company?

Or the kid who just happened to be packing because he lives in a bad neighborhood.

What? Carrying a weapon for protection. Silly Darkie. Rights are for white people!

 

[Blues Man]

And over 2/3 of those people have not been convicted of any crime.

If we change our arraignment and bail policies and offer alternate sentencing for nonviolent criminals we could easily reduce the prison population by 2\3

But I;m not sure that's an answer.

Who is more dangerous... the "non-violent offender" who cheats an old person out of his life savings promising to do repairs with his fake home repair company?

Or the kid who just happened to be packing because he lives in a bad neighborhood.

What? Carrying a weapon for protection. Silly Darkie. Rights are for white people!

Not the issue at all.

The severity of a crime has weight.

People get arrested for all kinds of petty crimes from public disorder to property damage

And now you want people to carry illegally all of a sudden?

Funny how the biggest anti gun loon here thinks people should illegally carry firearms

 

[JoeB131]

Not the issue at all.

The severity of a crime has weight.

People get arrested for all kinds of petty crimes from public disorder to property damage

And now you want people to carry illegally all of a sudden?

Funny how the biggest anti gun loon here thinks people should illegally carry firearms

No, I don't want anyone to carry.

That's the point.

But saying, "Hey, little minority kid, because you did something dumb when you were 16, you don't get to protect yourself but some fat old white racist can because his family could afford a good lawyer when he did stupid kid stuff."

Until you fix all the OTHER problems with the criminal justice system, this is just another bad, racist idea.

 

[2aguy]

emocrats are letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison in under 3 years...so it doesn't matter how many people are temporarily locked up if they are released over and over again to commit more gun crimes....

Because we DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR THEM. How many times do I need to repeat this to you?

We lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million in the revolving door of parole and probation. We've effectively destroyed their job prospects and we wonder why they become "repeat offenders"... and oh, yeah, we make it easy as pie for them to get a gun.

So here's a crazy idea. Stop locking people up, make it harder for them to get guns, and actually put an emphasis on getting them jobs.

You know, like Europe does, where they have nowhere near our problems.

(Oh, wait, this is where you insert some story about how there was a shooting in the UK two years ago.)

.......we have room, we are just letting them out because democrats keep letting them out.....so...your solution to violent gun offenders is to simply let them out of prison....great.

Our gun murder rate is going down, not up, as more Americans own and carry guns....so your theory is just wrong...

Europe is about to have our problem...their demographics are turning their countries into violent places and Britain is already more violent than our country......

 

[2aguy]

Germany murdered 12 million unarmed people....started 2 world wars.

Actually, it's a slander to blame Germany for WWI. And bad history. The ability of a government to kill lots of people has nothing to do with how many guns they have.

Japan murderd 3 million unarmed people.....started war in the pacific and slaughtered millions....

Actually, they killed more than that.. but those people had plenty of guns...

Sorry, looking to those countries as moral authorities has no basis in truth....

If you have to go back 70 years, 70 years ago, we had common sense gun laws in this country...

We didn't have anywhere near the crime we have now.

70 years ago you could walk into any general store and buy a gun off the rack, no checks, no anything, so you are just wrong. The culture changed with the Great Society, fatherless homes now rule inner cities creating the violence and crime..but even with this, as more normal Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rate is going down, not up.

 

[2aguy]

Not the issue at all.

The severity of a crime has weight.

People get arrested for all kinds of petty crimes from public disorder to property damage

And now you want people to carry illegally all of a sudden?

Funny how the biggest anti gun loon here thinks people should illegally carry firearms

No, I don't want anyone to carry.

That's the point.

But saying, "Hey, little minority kid, because you did something dumb when you were 16, you don't get to protect yourself but some fat old white racist can because his family could afford a good lawyer when he did stupid kid stuff."

Until you fix all the OTHER problems with the criminal justice system, this is just another bad, racist idea.

At 16 he is a juvenile and there are different rules.

And what the fuck do you know about racism White boy?

I grew up in a shitty neighborhood and I never carried a gun illegally.

CDZ.....

 

[JoeB131]

......we have room, we are just letting them out because democrats keep letting them out.....so...your solution to violent gun offenders is to simply let them out of prison....great.

Um, no, we really don't.

Prison Overcrowding Threatens Public Safety and State Budgets - American Legislative Exchange Council

Illinois is broke NOW. You want to lock up more people for petty ante crimes?

70 years ago you could walk into any general store and buy a gun off the rack, no checks, no anything, so you are just wrong. The culture changed with the Great Society, fatherless homes now rule inner cities creating the violence and crime..but even with this, as more normal Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rate is going down, not up.

Actually, this is where you are confused, buddy... (as usual). In the 1920's, any fool could buy a gun and you had crazy people shooting each other with Tommy Guns in the street. Then the Feds passed a LOT of federal laws that the courts, not having someone as brain damaged as Scalia on them, upheld. And that was kind of fine, until the NRA was hijacked by crazy people who said, 'You know what our cities need? More guns!"

 

[2aguy]

......we have room, we are just letting them out because democrats keep letting them out.....so...your solution to violent gun offenders is to simply let them out of prison....great.

Um, no, we really don't.

Prison Overcrowding Threatens Public Safety and State Budgets - American Legislative Exchange Council

Illinois is broke NOW. You want to lock up more people for petty ante crimes?

70 years ago you could walk into any general store and buy a gun off the rack, no checks, no anything, so you are just wrong. The culture changed with the Great Society, fatherless homes now rule inner cities creating the violence and crime..but even with this, as more normal Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rate is going down, not up.

Actually, this is where you are confused, buddy... (as usual). In the 1920's, any fool could buy a gun and you had crazy people shooting each other with Tommy Guns in the street. Then the Feds passed a LOT of federal laws that the courts, not having someone as brain damaged as Scalia on them, upheld. And that was kind of fine, until the NRA was hijacked by crazy people who said, 'You know what our cities need? More guns!"

And moron, the crime rate went down during the depression, not up........you have to stop getting your history lessons from t.v. and movies.

 

[JoeB131]

And moron, the crime rate went down during the depression, not up........you have to stop getting your history lessons from t.v. and movies.

Um, no, they went up... you had a whole bunch of really famous bank robbers who became folk heroes during the Depression- Dillinger, Bonny and Clyde, etc. That's how much crime went up during the depression. People cheered Al Capone and booed Herbert Hoover.

 

[2aguy]

And moron, the crime rate went down during the depression, not up........you have to stop getting your history lessons from t.v. and movies.

Um, no, they went up... you had a whole bunch of really famous bank robbers who became folk heroes during the Depression- Dillinger, Bonny and Clyde, etc. That's how much crime went up during the depression. People cheered Al Capone and booed Herbert Hoover.

No...it went down.....you have been shown the statistics over and over again yet you still insist that t.v. and movie history is more accurate.

Experts: Bad Economies Don't Cause Crime Waves

There's only one problem: The Depression years had very little crime.

https://www.history.com/topics/grea...es in Late,not continue throughout the decade.

Violent crime rates may have risen at first during the Depression (in 1933, nationwide homicide mortality rate hit a high for the century until that point, at 9.7 per 100,000 people) but the trend did not continue throughout the decade. As the economy showed signs of recovery in 1934-37, the homicide rate went down by 20 percent.

Do hard times spark more crime?

But whatever the reasons, crime continued to fall. The economy stalled again in 1937 and 1938 (Republicans called it the Roosevelt recession), but homicide rates kept going down, reaching 6.4 per 100,000 by the end of the decade. In fact, the mid-'30s launched a multi-decade crime trough that ran, despite occasional spikes, right up to the 1960s.

 

[JoeB131]

No...it went down.....you have been shown the statistics over and over again yet you still insist that t.v. and movie history is more accurate.

Yeah, it's your "Up is down, 33,000 Gun deaths a year is no big deal" nonsense.

Violent crime rates may have risen at first during the Depression (in 1933, nationwide homicide mortality rate hit a high for the century until that point, at 9.7 per 100,000 people) but the trend did not continue throughout the decade. As the economy showed signs of recovery in 1934-37, the homicide rate went down by 20 percent.

Okay, guy, you kind of made my point.

The Depression started in 1929. Four years later, the Homicide rate hit an all-time high. Then they started the FBI, they increased gun control, they put in a lot of crime control measures. By comparison, the Homicide rate today is 4.9/100K.

So at the height of the Great Depression, by your OWN FIGURES, the homicide rate was nearly twice what it is today. We created a fascist FBI, we imposed gun control measures... and we got that down by 20% when the economy improved, but it's still way to high.

 

[Blues Man]

And moron, the crime rate went down during the depression, not up........you have to stop getting your history lessons from t.v. and movies.

Um, no, they went up... you had a whole bunch of really famous bank robbers who became folk heroes during the Depression- Dillinger, Bonny and Clyde, etc. That's how much crime went up during the depression. People cheered Al Capone and booed Herbert Hoover.

That was because of prohibition and the emergence of a very lucrative black market in alcohol

https://www.history.com/news/prohibition-organized-crime-al-capone

 

[Blues Man]

No...it went down.....you have been shown the statistics over and over again yet you still insist that t.v. and movie history is more accurate.

Yeah, it's your "Up is down, 33,000 Gun deaths a year is no big deal" nonsense.

Violent crime rates may have risen at first during the Depression (in 1933, nationwide homicide mortality rate hit a high for the century until that point, at 9.7 per 100,000 people) but the trend did not continue throughout the decade. As the economy showed signs of recovery in 1934-37, the homicide rate went down by 20 percent.

Okay, guy, you kind of made my point.

The Depression started in 1929. Four years later, the Homicide rate hit an all-time high. Then they started the FBI, they increased gun control, they put in a lot of crime control measures. By comparison, the Homicide rate today is 4.9/100K.

So at the height of the Great Depression, by your OWN FIGURES, the homicide rate was nearly twice what it is today. We created a fascist FBI, we imposed gun control measures... and we got that down by 20% when the economy improved, but it's still way to high.

Suicides don't count.

and you have a 99.997% chance of not being murdered by a person with a gun

 

[Blues Man]

If we stop locking up people for nonviolent crimes we'll have plenty of room

Did you know that 2\3 of the people in prison have not even been convicted of a crime but are awaiting trial?

That's the real problem with our so called criminal justice system

But here's the thing... the people that 2AG whines about getting out also haven't been convicted of anything yet. That's why they are getting bonds... we don't have the space to lock all these people up. So we bust the young punk who happened to be packing, we let out the con-artist who cheats old people on fake roof repairs? (I have a friend who recently retired as a Consumer Fraud Detective, and his main frustration was how many of these guys were let go after stealing people's life savings, because they were "non-violent'.

But you'll want to let that "non-violent" guy go and lock up the guy who was packing because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood and wanted to protect himself.

If that many people are in prison awaiting trial then they are NOT getting bail.

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2019

 

[2aguy]

No...it went down.....you have been shown the statistics over and over again yet you still insist that t.v. and movie history is more accurate.

Yeah, it's your "Up is down, 33,000 Gun deaths a year is no big deal" nonsense.

Violent crime rates may have risen at first during the Depression (in 1933, nationwide homicide mortality rate hit a high for the century until that point, at 9.7 per 100,000 people) but the trend did not continue throughout the decade. As the economy showed signs of recovery in 1934-37, the homicide rate went down by 20 percent.

Okay, guy, you kind of made my point.

The Depression started in 1929. Four years later, the Homicide rate hit an all-time high. Then they started the FBI, they increased gun control, they put in a lot of crime control measures. By comparison, the Homicide rate today is 4.9/100K.

So at the height of the Great Depression, by your OWN FIGURES, the homicide rate was nearly twice what it is today. We created a fascist FBI, we imposed gun control measures... and we got that down by 20% when the economy improved, but it's still way to high.

criminals didn't pay attention to gun control anymore back then than they do today.....gun control didn't stop Clyde from getting fully automatic military weapons, and it didn't stop any of the other bank robbers from getting the same....you moron...

And you again add suicides into the gun murder rate...because if you don't you would have to face the fact that gun murders went down, as more people started carrying guns for self defense...we are now at over 18.6 million people carrying guns, and our gun murder rate went down, again......

Our major gun problem is gun suicide....and suicide is a mental health issue not a gun issue...

 

[JoeB131]

If that many people are in prison awaiting trial then they are NOT getting bail.

Your own pie-chart shows that only 460K of the 2 million people are awaiting trial. The rest were convicted.

The chart also shows only 61K for immigration violations... Your Orange Fuhrer wants to increase that number.

Again, we don't have the space for "Throw him in jail for being poor and having a gun."

 

[JoeB131]

criminals didn't pay attention to gun control anymore back then than they do today.....gun control didn't stop Clyde from getting fully automatic military weapons, and it didn't stop any of the other bank robbers from getting the same....you moron...

Except by 1940, those kinds of crimes stopped.

So guess what, those gun control laws DID work.

And you again add suicides into the gun murder rate...because if you don't you would have to face the fact that gun murders went down, as more people started carrying guns for self defense...we are now at over 18.6 million people carrying guns, and our gun murder rate went down, again......

Again, this falls into your NRA spooge numbers, so that's being ignored. The homicide rate with guns is actually going up, not down.

2017 it hit an all time high of 14,542.

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Meanwhile, in the bad old United Kingdom, it was a massive 11.

 

[2aguy]

criminals didn't pay attention to gun control anymore back then than they do today.....gun control didn't stop Clyde from getting fully automatic military weapons, and it didn't stop any of the other bank robbers from getting the same....you moron...

Except by 1940, those kinds of crimes stopped.

So guess what, those gun control laws DID work.

And you again add suicides into the gun murder rate...because if you don't you would have to face the fact that gun murders went down, as more people started carrying guns for self defense...we are now at over 18.6 million people carrying guns, and our gun murder rate went down, again......

Again, this falls into your NRA spooge numbers, so that's being ignored. The homicide rate with guns is actually going up, not down.

2017 it hit an all time high of 14,542.

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Meanwhile, in the bad old United Kingdom, it was a massive 11.

...it wasn't gun control that stopped these guys....it was the end of prohibition, and the creation of the FBI that allowed them to pursue the bank robbers across state lines......watch the history channel sometime and you will see the advantage the Bonnie and Clyde's had was the ability to cross state lines where local and state cops couldn't pursue them....

And the homicide numbers went up after obama went after the police and they are now falling again since Trump got into office....going after the police as President and using black lives matter and the ACLU turns out to be a bad idea...since the police stop pro-active police work and simply respond to calls....

And with Britain...before they banned guns they had lower gun murder rates than we did...after they banned guns they had the exact same gun murder rates.......after they had a 10 year spike in gun murder....so the gun control laws in Britain had no effect on gun murder........

You don't understand any of these issues....