The best healthcare in America is government run

[AllieBaba]

I've gone the VA Route in two different states. The first time I had a golf ball sized cyst removed from my right for arm by a guy who barely spoke english and who had apprently never heard of anesthesia that or they were out that day.

Oh and as for those in that systen thinking it's great, I've yet to hear a drowning man bitch about the quality or condition of the rope while he was still clinging to it in the midst of the sea. Oh and most of those guys are career soldiers. They think standing in line for hours is a normal part of life.

My last trip to my private physician I was in and out in 45 minutes. I've never been in and out of the VA in less than two hours and three to four is more usual.

When I was going to get my Kidneys x-rayed by the VA they wanted me to have an enema. The stuff they gave me to do the Job was clearly marked in bold "If you have or think you might have kidney disease do not use this product". So is this how Obama care plans on lowering costs? They're going to kill half the people that come through the door by giving them stuff they shouldn't have?

I think your story is bullshit.

Seriously I think you're making it up.

You had surgery without anesthesia?

I think that's a boldfaced lie.

Yeah, but you're an idiot, so who cares what you think?

 

[sparky]

well isn't the jist that even crap HC is better than no HC?

how does it work here?

wait 2 weeks for your general practioner to look at it, then another 2-4 weeks for the 'specialist' to perform the excisional biopsy needed.

years ago, GP's would have done it for you, now their policy is to refer whatever they can

of course, one can always go to the e.r. and blow $700-$1000 in admissions alone to have it done. Even there on a busy day, you'd be triaged to a 4-5 hr wait if they're busy btw...

so in reality (where so many of us find ourselves only after an incident) those of us without , or even with insurance might decide those superfiscial cycsts , boils, burns, lacerations , minor fractures, etc might be better dealt with ourselves

further, one can easily fudge over the counter lidocaine in certain sunburn sauves, or even experiment with the capsaicin in hot peppers as local anesthetics....(not to mention you real men who would light a shot of CC on fire John Wayne style)

further still, one can also fudge the dumbed down over the counter agricillin at grain/feed stores , after all it is called swine flu , right?

think of it all as rationing HC away from these silly little things that we've been whining about dragging the system down....

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Most private hospitals can only dream of the futuristic medicine Dr. Divya Shroff practices today. Outside an elderly patient's room, the attending physician gathers her residents around a wireless laptop propped on a mobile cart. Shroff accesses the patient's entire medical history--a stack of paper in most private hospitals. And instead of trekking to the radiology lab to view the latest X-ray, she brings it up on her computer screen. While Shroff is visiting the patient, a resident types in a request for pain medication, then punches the SEND button. Seconds later, the printer in the hospital pharmacy spits out the order. The druggist stuffs a plastic bag of pills into what looks like a tiny space capsule, then shoots it up to the ward in a vacuum tube. By the time Shroff wheels away her computer, a nurse walks up with the drugs.

Life in a big-name institution like the Mayo Clinic? Not hardly. Shroff, 31, a specialist in internal medicine, works at the Veterans Affairs hospital in Washington, where the vets who come for the cutting-edge treatment are mostly poor.

If you're surprised, that's understandable. Until the early 1990s, care at VA hospitals was so substandard that Congress considered shutting down the entire system and giving ex-G.I.s vouchers for treatment at private facilities. Today it's a very different story. The VA runs the largest integrated health-care system in the country, with more than 1,400 hospitals, clinics and nursing homes employing 14,800 doctors and 61,000 nurses. And by a number of measures, this government-managed health-care program--socialized medicine on a small scale--is beating the marketplace. For the sixth year in a row, VA hospitals last year scored higher than private facilities on the University of Michigan's American Customer Satisfaction Index, based on patient surveys on the quality of care received. The VA scored 83 out of 100; private institutions, 71. Males 65 years and older receiving VA care had about a 40% lower risk of death than those enrolled in Medicare Advantage, whose care is provided through private health plans or HMOs, according to a study published in the April edition of Medical Care. Harvard University just gave the VA its Innovations in American Government Award for the agency's work in computerizing patient records.

And all that was achieved at a relatively low cost. In the past 10 years, the number of veterans receiving treatment from the VA has more than doubled, from 2.5 million to 5.3 million, but the agency has cared for them with 10,000 fewer employees. The VA's cost per patient has remained steady during the past 10 years. The cost of private care has jumped about 40% in that same period.

How Veterans' Hospitals Became the Best in Health Care - TIME

I beg to differ

Military.com

The Dark Side of Health Care on Native American Reservations

 

[Navy1960]

Seven weeks after the U.S. Veterans' Administration notified more than 3,000 veterans they might have been exposed to hepatitis B, hepatitis C or HIV by improperly cleaned colonoscopy equipment at the VA hospital in Miami, more than a quarter of them -- nearly 1,100 in all -- have not responded for testing, according to numbers provided by the VA.

ASTOUNDING NUMBER

The number is so far above those seen at other VA hospitals where similar problems were reported that one U.S. senator is calling for hearings on the matter.

''There are a bunch of unanswered questions here,'' said David Ward, spokesman for U.S. Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., who has asked Sen. Daniel Kahikina Akaka, D-Hawaii, chairman of the U.S. Senate's Veterans Affairs Committee, to hold hearings
VA inquiry into Miami hospital raises tough questions - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., met Thursday with the VA's top medical official in her Washington, D.C., office to discuss the problems at the Seattle VA hospital's psychiatric ward.

Murray plans to visit the Seattle VA on Friday to "see for myself" the condition of the psychiatric ward and the steps VA officials have taken to address the concerns raised by the joint commission inspectors.

"I had a very frank and direct conversation with Dr. (Michael) Kussman," Murray said after the 30-minute meeting.

"I was told and reassured by Dr. Kussman that the Seattle VA is well aware of (the deficiencies), they are making no excuses and are taking drastic measures" to fix the dangers.

Murray acts after critical report on VA hospitals


This is not new for the VA , while in a previous post I have said that the VA has come a long way since it's dark days of the Vietnam war. That does not mean however the VA should be held up as some sort of model of Govt. healthcare. If you wish to do so it's important for all of you who wish Govt. run healthcare to understand exactly what it is your talking about. Frequently VA hospitals are used as training facilities for new Doctors to try out their craft, so it's not surprising then that a Vet would find themselves being misdiagnosed.

A common definition of a major teaching hospital is that they have at least one full time medical resident for every four operating beds. Veterans Affairs medical centers, military specialty hospitals and children’s hospitals can also be teaching hospitals
Teaching hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BASIC REQUIREMENTS: Qualifications
Minimum Qualifications for appointment as a VA physician are:

Citizenship - Citizen of the United States (non-citizens may be appointed on a temporary basis when qualified citizens are not available.
Degree of Doctor of Medicine or an equivalent degree from an institution approved by the Association of American Medical
Colleges or the American Osteopathic Association for the year in which the degree was granted.
Current, full and unrestricted license to practice medicine or surgery in any state, Territory, or Commonwealth (e.g., Puerto Rico) of the United States or the District of Columbia.
Successful professional record for experienced physicians.
Personal interview.
Satisfactory physical examination.
English language proficiency - must be proficient in spoken and written English as required by 38 U.S.C. 7402(d), and 7407(d).

Department of Veterans Affairs Physician TEMPLE TX 76508


As I mentioned before while the VA has come a long way in making up for a very bad reputation it still has many problems and as some advice for the advocates of Govt. run healthcare I'd suggest you find another example.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

and some more examples provided by navy to back up my OPINION.

 

[Navy1960]

You know PLYMCO_PILGRIM I find it sort of funny that anyone would hold up the VA as an example of Govt. run healthcare and I do hope they are not using that as some sort of model to justify healthcare for all Americans because it backfires most everytime. Thats rather like holding up Amtrack as an excuse to take over all the Airlines and using Amtrak as a model of how well the Govt. runs transportation. I will cite you a Govt. run healthcare insurance program thats not all that bad. and thats Tri-Care, only problem is those that have it earned it. this whole healthcare debate to me seems to be somewhat misdirected, rather than actually addressing the things that cause healthcare to rise, it seems like those that advocate this one size fits all healthcare are using the Las Vegas method of bringing healthcare costs down. In that, by covering everyone, you gamble on the fact that not everyone will use it, and every Doctor and hospital will adjust their costs to accept it. Only problem is all the problems that cause halthcare cost to rise in the first place are still there. High malpractice insurance, Illegal Immigration costs, Pharma costs, Transportation costs, bed costs, and and endless number of other things not addressed. So in the end this bill does only one thing, it will allow people to say "hey I got insurance" although it doesn't mean anyone will accept it. Oh , I almost forgot, it does push this nation deeper in debt to the point where we will be on the brink or bankruptcy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I feel the same way navy.

I feel like a broken record as i point to S.S., The VA hospitals, medicare, ect all the time just trying to show people that over time the govt always fails (and yes i mean both parties running anything like this)

How about the Native Americans and the reservations? Theres another example that people should look at where the Govt promised to provide health care for a group of people and has failed them miserably. The Dark Side of Health Care on Native American Reservations

I'm not against working to make health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient. I am FOR those things which is why i'm AGAINST the current health care proposal.

 

[Navy1960]

I feel the same way navy.

I feel like a broken record as i point to S.S., The VA hospitals, medicare, ect all the time just trying to show people that over time the govt always fails (and yes i mean both parties running anything like this)

How about the Native Americans and the reservations? Theres another example that people should look at where the Govt promised to provide health care for a group of people and has failed them miserably. The Dark Side of Health Care on Native American Reservations

I'm not against working to make health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient. I am FOR those things which is why i'm AGAINST the current health care proposal.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't think you can find many who would not want to have healthcare cost come down and make of more affordable for everyone. I also feel that if any efforts need to be made, they need to be made for the millions upon millions of us who have paid into SS and Medicare over the years to make it solvent. I feel deeply that by going into the business of pubilc healthcare for everyone the Federal Govt. risks bankrupting not only itself but the SS and Medicare when it need only address the issues I mentioned above. I also believe strongly that if healthcare were affordable to everyone that wanted it this would be a non-issue. Ways to make it that way are vast. one example would be to allow families, small business, individuals to form co-ops to purchase healthcare insurance at the same rates large companies do. Thats just one example of many, in the end though it should be left to the individual as to whats best for them and not some faceless entity to decide for them.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I feel the same way navy.

I feel like a broken record as i point to S.S., The VA hospitals, medicare, ect all the time just trying to show people that over time the govt always fails (and yes i mean both parties running anything like this)

How about the Native Americans and the reservations? Theres another example that people should look at where the Govt promised to provide health care for a group of people and has failed them miserably. The Dark Side of Health Care on Native American Reservations

I'm not against working to make health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient. I am FOR those things which is why i'm AGAINST the current health care proposal.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't think you can find many who would not want to have healthcare cost come down and make of more affordable for everyone. I also feel that if any efforts need to be made, they need to be made for the millions upon millions of us who have paid into SS and Medicare over the years to make it solvent. I feel deeply that by going into the business of pubilc healthcare for everyone the Federal Govt. risks bankrupting not only itself but the SS and Medicare when it need only address the issues I mentioned above. I also believe strongly that if healthcare were affordable to everyone that wanted it this would be a non-issue. Ways to make it that way are vast. one example would be to allow families, small business, individuals to form co-ops to purchase healthcare insurance at the same rates large companies do. Thats just one example of many, in the end though it should be left to the individual as to whats best for them and not some faceless entity to decide for them.

But see thats the rub. When someone such as myself or yourself says we oppose the bill people just assume we are against making health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient.

Its partly my own fault for not clarifying my position and just yelling out "This plan sucks" all the time. But i really think most pro-govt run, pro current health care proposal people assume we dont want more coverage or better care.

The reality is funny that both sides really want the same thing its just people like me and i think like you too feel the govt is not a wise solution. We think this because of their track record like in the examples we have both posted over and over.

I do want better insurance coverage and better health care which is why I am against Government Run Health care.

 

[Navy1960]

I feel the same way navy.

I feel like a broken record as i point to S.S., The VA hospitals, medicare, ect all the time just trying to show people that over time the govt always fails (and yes i mean both parties running anything like this)

How about the Native Americans and the reservations? Theres another example that people should look at where the Govt promised to provide health care for a group of people and has failed them miserably. The Dark Side of Health Care on Native American Reservations

I'm not against working to make health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient. I am FOR those things which is why i'm AGAINST the current health care proposal.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't think you can find many who would not want to have healthcare cost come down and make of more affordable for everyone. I also feel that if any efforts need to be made, they need to be made for the millions upon millions of us who have paid into SS and Medicare over the years to make it solvent. I feel deeply that by going into the business of pubilc healthcare for everyone the Federal Govt. risks bankrupting not only itself but the SS and Medicare when it need only address the issues I mentioned above. I also believe strongly that if healthcare were affordable to everyone that wanted it this would be a non-issue. Ways to make it that way are vast. one example would be to allow families, small business, individuals to form co-ops to purchase healthcare insurance at the same rates large companies do. Thats just one example of many, in the end though it should be left to the individual as to whats best for them and not some faceless entity to decide for them.

But see thats the rub. When someone such as myself or yourself says we oppose the bill people just assume we are against making health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient.

Its partly my own fault for not clarifying my position and just yelling out "This plan sucks" all the time. But i really think most pro-govt run, pro current health care proposal people assume we dont want more coverage or better care.

The reality is funny that both sides really want the same thing its just people like me and i think like you too feel the govt is not a wise solution. We think this because of their track record like in the examples we have both posted over and over.

I do want better insurance coverage and better health care which is why I am against Government Run Health care.

Do you know I think that most people want the same end result, it's how we get there thats the issue. I do think that that when Govt. acts in a manner in which it actually empowers people they see positive results. They have a perfect example in the "cash for clunkers" even I will admit that program has been a big hit with people. What it does do though is put the power in the hands of the individual and Govt. acts as it should as the vehicle for that rather than the provider. If they took this lesson and applied it to the healthcare debate then perhaps they might have something that could be a positive step for everyone. Now while may people may disagree, what is wrong with say a combination if price regulation on the insurance industry, allowable co-ops like I mentioned above, and tax credit to each individual that would allow low income people to purchase their insurance on the private market place? All of this can be done in conjunction with much needed tort reform, immigration reform, and pharma cost reform. Then you have something. Notice, none of it involves a Govt. run or mandeted health insurance program it leaves it up to the Amercian citizen as it should be with EVERY choice that effects your body which is not Govt. owned.

 

[Amanda]

But see thats the rub. When someone such as myself or yourself says we oppose the bill people just assume we are against making health insurance coverage more available to all americans and making health care itself better and more cost efficient.

They don't assume that, they use that as a diversionary tactic. It's a typical liberal "appeal to emotion". Same song and dance with things like affirmative action: If you're not for it, you're a racist.

 

[driveby]

Your own post says the Canadian government "fix the price on pharmaceuticals, as do other countries such as France." That's the negotiation. Big Pharma can either sell the drugs at that price or not sell them at all.

Thanks for proving my point. You are the best!

That's your idea of negotiation. I'd call it price fixing. And if the Canadian government doesn't put a drug on the national formulary, it can't be sold at any price.

But to call price fixing and government price control negotiation is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

What if your employer made a simple statement: "Take a 75% pay cut or quit. Case closed". Now you may or may not take their ultimatum, but to call that negotiation is pretty stupid. But don't take my word for it, try a dictionary.

ne⋅go⋅ti⋅a⋅tion  /nɪˌgoʊʃiˈeɪʃən, -si-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ni-goh-shee-ey-shuhn, -see-]

–noun 1. mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction or agreement: the negotiation of a treaty.
2. the act or process of negotiating.
3. an instance or the result of negotiating.

Even you should be able to see that's hardly a description of how Canada fixes prices.

The Canadian government represents all Canadians as a unit and sets the price. That is the way it should be. As a result, Canadians are not overcharged for drugs.

The drug companies have THE HIGHEST PROFIT MARGIN OF ANY BUSINESS! They are holding people's health hostage to their greed. That is wrong.

and off topic for a moment, eat a dick queerbait ..........

 

[Harry Dresden]

Here's a link to a book you all should read....

Amazon.com: Best Care Anywhere: Why VA Health Care is Better Than Yours (9780977825301): Phillip Longman, Timothy Noah: Books

its funny Chris you post this "opinion piece"....but yet most of the vets i see here who have been treated there and know in the real world who also have been there dont agree....but yet a idiot like you buys it hook line and ballsack....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I am satisfied with the treatment I get through the Veterans administration.

But I am informed by fellow vets who have recieved care in places other than Maine, that some Vets hospitals are a mess while others are provide excellent care.

One thing I can say with the benefit of my personal experience is that the care I recived at my VA is as good as any I have ever gotten in a private hospital or from a private MD.

and yet out here at the Long Beach VA Hospital it seems to be 50/50....on my mail route one Vietnam Vet goes there because he doesnt have to pay...and says its so-so....another guy from the first Iraq War says its fairly good,but not great and he now goes private Ins.....and a kid from the present Iraq conflict says he wont go anywhere near it....one time was enough....

 

[Harry Dresden]

finally a picture of Bobo teabagging Chrissy.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

More lies from the right.

A single payer healthcare system is the most efficient and the most fair. That is why every other industrialized nation has a single payer system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and get as good or better results. Those are the facts.

For profit healthcare is morally wrong. Pure and simple.

chris has a fan
LOL
must be an even bigger moron that chris is

yea thats Political Moron for ya ....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Chris, I worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 34 years and I have a simple question for you. Are you ignorant or are you lying.

It's a pretty strong mixture of both.

Just to forewarn you, when you finally blow his bullshit to smithereens, he'll begin endlessly asking the same question, based upon a completely flawed either-or premise, over and over and over again.

Then he'll neg-rep him. Oh that's right. He can't do that anymore.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's a pretty strong mixture of both.

Just to forewarn you, when you finally blow his bullshit to smithereens, he's begin endlessly asking the same question, based upon a completely flawed either-or premise, over and over and over again.

No premise at all.

Just a simple question.

Should the rich get the best healthcare?

When faced with a question they cannot answer, the right will do one of three things...

1. Personal insult

2. Change the subject

3. Refuse to answer

I am not rich, you stupid fuck. I get the best care. There's your answer, dumbass.

same with me El....Blue Shield....have never had a complaint nor turned down for something.....Kaiser a different story....