The battle for the "Big Fuckin Deal" begins tomorrow!

[The T]

Sure we do. Let's do it then. Tell me how the individual mandate doesn't force people to buy insurance?

Because the Mandate requires you to have insurance, not buy insurance. If you worked for me, and I provided insurance to all my workers, you would be legally required to buy nothing.

And how much more would you be able to pay me since you have that added expense?

A natural question as taxpayers are on the hook for this monstorsity...and that is assuming Do Be Stupid pays taxes or is a moocher in the first place.

 

[Avorysuds]

Ah, then you can explain to all of us what it means for Congress to promote the general welfare, and how that, apparently, has nothing to do with health.

Thanks!

Watch how quickly I can own you, destroy you entire argument only to have you dance to some other bullshit argument. Then when your new position is destroyed you will casually jump back to this “promote” argument that was already destroyed as if it never happened.

"promote the general welfare"


Promote | Define Promote at Dictionary.com

heh heh

I know what the word means. Thanks.

Then tell us all how Government providing HC is promoting something and not providing something... Unless you don't actually know what the word mean. It’s written clear as can be, so clear that you have to flat out ignore the word promote and the REST of the constitution to get the answer you seem to think supports what you want.

No joke, if we used the GWC clause like you do then the rest of the constitution is void, even the FF said how YOU use it is wrong and that if the GWC were to be used how you claim it can be the constitution would no longer have meaning.

 

[hortysir]

And here is the list of things they are allowed to spend those collected monies on:


To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.






Nope......
No mention of anything even slightly resembling health-care

Funny how you cut out "general welfare" as one of the things Congress can spend money on. But hey, if you want to go with regulating commerce or passing laws needed to carry out the execution of these powers, we can go down that road instead.

I didn't cut out shit, fumble-head.
I quoted you.


Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.
Still no mention of healthcare.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Sure we do. Let's do it then. Tell me how the individual mandate doesn't force people to buy insurance?

Because the Mandate requires you to have insurance, not buy insurance. If you worked for me, and I provided insurance to all my workers, you would be legally required to buy nothing.

Having means YOU subscribe to Government plans...Buyng means you HAVE TO buy one...one or the other means the Government is telling YOU that you better or else.

Where did they get that power to demand such?

I'd say they were out of bounds.

And Don't use the Car insurance schtick. That has been proven false, and gets tiring everytime it's used by the left.

Congress has the power to raise funds, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my neighbor, because I choose to not have kids, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my other neighbor, because I choose to not have a house, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than you, because I choose not to have health insurance, right? ....

Ok. Other angle.

Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes. (honestly, I'm not sure you agree with this)
Congress has the power to regulate commerce, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass laws that assist them in executing their powers, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass a law affecting one of the largest industries in the entire country, right? ...

You won't answer. It's ok.

 

[The T]

Because the Mandate requires you to have insurance, not buy insurance. If you worked for me, and I provided insurance to all my workers, you would be legally required to buy nothing.

Having means YOU subscribe to Government plans...Buyng means you HAVE TO buy one...one or the other means the Government is telling YOU that you better or else.

Where did they get that power to demand such?

I'd say they were out of bounds.

And Don't use the Car insurance schtick. That has been proven false, and gets tiring everytime it's used by the left.

Congress has the power to raise funds, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my neighbor, because I choose to not have kids, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my other neighbor, because I choose to not have a house, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than you, because I choose not to have health insurance, right? ....

Ok. Other angle.

Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes. (honestly, I'm not sure you agree with this)
Congress has the power to regulate commerce, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass laws that assist them in executing their powers, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass a law affecting one of the largest industries in the entire country, right? ...

You won't answer. It's ok.

Congress also has to have the HONOR to stick to Article 1 Section 8 which you ignore.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Sure we do. Let's do it then. Tell me how the individual mandate doesn't force people to buy insurance?

Because the Mandate requires you to have insurance, not buy insurance. If you worked for me, and I provided insurance to all my workers, you would be legally required to buy nothing.

And how much more would you be able to pay me since you have that added expense?

Why would I pay you more? Your wage is decided purely by market forces, right?

 

[The T]

And here is the list of things they are allowed to spend those collected monies on:


To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.






Nope......
No mention of anything even slightly resembling health-care

Funny how you cut out "general welfare" as one of the things Congress can spend money on. But hey, if you want to go with regulating commerce or passing laws needed to carry out the execution of these powers, we can go down that road instead.

I didn't cut out shit, fumble-head.
I quoted you.


Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.
Still no mention of healthcare.

NOT 'Welfare' in it's current incarnation courtesy of the Progressive left from 1913 on...

 

[Avorysuds]

Because the Mandate requires you to have insurance, not buy insurance. If you worked for me, and I provided insurance to all my workers, you would be legally required to buy nothing.

Having means YOU subscribe to Government plans...Buyng means you HAVE TO buy one...one or the other means the Government is telling YOU that you better or else.

Where did they get that power to demand such?

I'd say they were out of bounds.

And Don't use the Car insurance schtick. That has been proven false, and gets tiring everytime it's used by the left.

Congress has the power to raise funds, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my neighbor, because I choose to not have kids, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my other neighbor, because I choose to not have a house, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than you, because I choose not to have health insurance, right? ....

Ok. Other angle.

Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes. (honestly, I'm not sure you agree with this)
Congress has the power to regulate commerce, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass laws that assist them in executing their powers, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass a law affecting one of the largest industries in the entire country, right? ...

You won't answer. It's ok.

WRONG! To PROMOTE the GW, NOT PROVIDE IT. YOU lied and just proved you know the meaning of the word and when called on it you changed the constitution so that you can make a point. YOU changed your story like I said you would.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.

You are fundamentally wrong.

By your interpretation, we could not have have paper money or the Air Force.

 

[Avorysuds]

We go over this same shit hundreds of times. One side says the same thing and hold the same position while the other lies, misrepresents and makes shit up at near random.

Show where the constitution says the Government will provide for the General welfare…. You can’t.

 

[Greenbeard]

WRONG! To PROMOTE the GW, NOT PROVIDE IT.

What the hell are you talking about?

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

 

[DontBeStupid]

Having means YOU subscribe to Government plans...Buyng means you HAVE TO buy one...one or the other means the Government is telling YOU that you better or else.

Where did they get that power to demand such?

I'd say they were out of bounds.

And Don't use the Car insurance schtick. That has been proven false, and gets tiring everytime it's used by the left.

Congress has the power to raise funds, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my neighbor, because I choose to not have kids, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my other neighbor, because I choose to not have a house, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than you, because I choose not to have health insurance, right? ....

Ok. Other angle.

Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes. (honestly, I'm not sure you agree with this)
Congress has the power to regulate commerce, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass laws that assist them in executing their powers, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass a law affecting one of the largest industries in the entire country, right? ...

You won't answer. It's ok.

WRONG! To PROMOTE the GW, NOT PROVIDE IT. YOU lied and just proved you know the meaning of the word and when called on it you changed the constitution so that you can make a point. YOU changed your story like I said you would.

Where do you think I said they should provide?

Because I didn't say that.

 

[The T]

We go over this same shit hundreds of times. One side says the same thing and hold the same position while the other lies, misrepresents and makes shit up at near random.

Show where the constitution says the Government will provide for the General welfare…. You can’t.

He knows it. He's being obteuse.

 

[DontBeStupid]

We go over this same shit hundreds of times. One side says the same thing and hold the same position while the other lies, misrepresents and makes shit up at near random.

Show where the constitution says the Government will provide for the General welfare…. You can’t.

He knows it. He's being obteuse.

Article 1, Section 8 ...

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

[Avorysuds]

Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.

You are fundamentally wrong.

By your interpretation, we could not have have paper money or the Air Force.

HOOOOLLY SHIIIIIIIIiiiiiit....


YES we can have an airforce as I'm sure someone will prove to you in the next ten fucking seconds and NO we are not allowed to have a Federal reserve.

 

[DontBeStupid]

We go over this same shit hundreds of times. One side says the same thing and hold the same position while the other lies, misrepresents and makes shit up at near random.

Show where the constitution says the Government will provide for the General welfare…. You can’t.

He knows it. He's being obteuse.

Article 1, Section 8 ...

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Oh, and for Avory ...

PROVIDE Provide | Define Provide at Dictionary.com

 

[hortysir]

Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.

You are fundamentally wrong.

By your interpretation, we could not have have paper money or the Air Force.

OMG!!

Really??!!!

You really don't know what 'coining' or 'militia' means, do you?




Any powers not given to the federal government is relegated to the states.
If your state wants to PROVIDE you welfare, fine. You obviously need it.
I am not required, by the COTUS, to pay for your welfare.

 

[Avorysuds]

Congress has the power to raise funds, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my neighbor, because I choose to not have kids, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than my other neighbor, because I choose to not have a house, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to raise more from me than you, because I choose not to have health insurance, right? ....

Ok. Other angle.

Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes. (honestly, I'm not sure you agree with this)
Congress has the power to regulate commerce, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass laws that assist them in executing their powers, right? Yes.
Congress has the power to pass a law affecting one of the largest industries in the entire country, right? ...

You won't answer. It's ok.

WRONG! To PROMOTE the GW, NOT PROVIDE IT. YOU lied and just proved you know the meaning of the word and when called on it you changed the constitution so that you can make a point. YOU changed your story like I said you would.

Where do you think I said they should provide?

Because I didn't say that.

"Congress has the power to spend money it raises on the general welfare of the country, right? Yes."


You think it means provide. Unless you now take the position we have all been telling you and that is promote, meaning no SS/MC/Obamacare.

jumping back and forth... just like we all said you would... At this point you are Trolling.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.

You are fundamentally wrong.

By your interpretation, we could not have have paper money or the Air Force.

HOOOOLLY SHIIIIIIIIiiiiiit....


YES we can have an airforce as I'm sure someone will prove to you in the next ten fucking seconds and NO we are not allowed to have a Federal reserve.

Really? Hmm. Because no where in the Constitution do I see "air force" mentioned. Which Enumerated Power mentions the "air force"?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Article 1 Section 8 says 'defense and welfare', yes.
But then it goes on to list what that includes.

You are fundamentally wrong.

By your interpretation, we could not have have paper money or the Air Force.

OMG!!

Really??!!!

You really don't know what 'coining' or 'militia' means, do you?




Any powers not given to the federal government is relegated to the states.
If your state wants to PROVIDE you welfare, fine. You obviously need it.
I am not required, by the COTUS, to pay for your welfare.

So ... "coining" and "militia" mean "paper currency" and "Air Force", but "general welfare" in now way shape or form means "health care".

Ok ... then what do you think "general welfare" means?