The basic principles of Systems Thinking

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Dante, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    The basic principles of Systems Thinking:

    1) Today's problems come from yesterday's "solutions."

    2) The harder you push, the harder the system pushes back.

    3) Behavior will grow worse before it grows better.

    4) The easy way out usually leads back in.

    5) The cure can be worse than the disease.

    6) Faster is slower.

    7) Cause and effect are not closely related in time and space.

    8) Small changes can produce big results...but the areas of highest leverage are often the least obvious. (Most obvious solutions for complex social problems can be at best useless and at worst dangerous)

    9) You can have your cake and eat it too ---but not all at once.

    10) Dividing an elephant in half does not produce two small elephants.

    11) There is no blame.

    ---------------------------

    http://sysdyn.clexchange.org/sdep/Roadmaps/RM1/D-4468-2.pdf

    COUNTERINTUITIVE BEHAVIOR
    OF SOCIAL SYSTEMS
    by
    JAY W. FORRESTER2​
     
  2. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    most of you will never get IT.

    and that's okay. we need ignorance. It makes the world a wonderful and interesting place as well as a frightening and troubling place. that is life, wonderful, interesting, frightening and troubling.

    gotta get back to Joseph Campbell.

    http://www.jcf.org/new/index.php
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  3. psikeyhackr
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    psikeyhackr VIP Member

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    The technology has gotten to powerfual and pervasive for ignorance. That is why we are headed for a systems crash. 41 years after the Moon landing and the PhD economists can't even talk about how many TRILLIONS we have lost due to the planned obsolescence of technology deliberately manufactured to be crappy.

    Bring up the subject and see what kind of pseudo-intellectual trash arguments you get. Try finding an economist that can explain how a piston engine works.

    psik
     
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  4. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    Systems thinking, I never heard that term before, but it is a concept I learned pretty early in my studies. Sometimes the only way to solve a problem is let it work for you, which is why regulations rarely produce the desired result. Regulations focus on the problem, and the only real way to progress is to focus on the solution. If you do that you sometimes find that the problem works for you.
     
  5. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    :clap2:
     
  6. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    Many regulations work just fine, because not all regulation are equal, or are after the fact solutions meantto solve problems.

    All regulations suffer from the law of unintended consequences, but arguing the case for doing nothing because of the law of unintended consequences does not make for a credible argument. Doing nothing is subject to the law of unintended consequences.
     
  7. Mini 14
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    Mini 14 Senior Member

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    #11 alone will take you a long way if you ever manage people.
     
  8. asterism
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    asterism Congress != Progress

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    Most people say "regulation" when they actually mean "oversight." The result is micromanagement and a market response to gaming that structure.

    Passing a law and enforcing penalties for speed limits in certain areas is oversight. Intruding into the market to make it impossible to manufacture a car that exceeds said speed limit is micromanagement. If that micromanagement is successful, the original regulation is ignored which creates a false state of compliance. Then the system to enforce the regulation by way of penalties is ineffective, and someone figures out how to put together an old roadster.

    We're drifting towards micromanagement and as a result are getting less actual oversight. In the business world, Sarbanes-Oxley is the best current era example. It was meant to counter fraud, but it did so in a way that was easily gamed. However since it was technically legal to commit fraud and be in compliance, the system broke down.

    The recent financial reform seems to continue that strategy.
     
  9. asterism
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    asterism Congress != Progress

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    And a it's sister concept:

    Inseminating an elephant twice only produces two additional elephants if the timing is correct. The universe is not static.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  10. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    and it will take on a long way in appreciating life for what it is -- accepting life on it's own terms.
     

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