The Authoritarian GOP

[Oddball]

I won't argue the point that Libertarians aren't saints, but what modern right wing line is spouted by Libertarians?

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

Not true at all.

Libertarians are all for lawful user fee type taxation (i.e. fuel taxes), which support the public service for which they are collected.

We're against regressive income, sales and property taxes.

The first six years of the Bush administration put the lie to the myth that the GOP is about controlling spending.

 

[eagleseven]

I won't argue the point that Libertarians aren't saints, but what modern right wing line is spouted by Libertarians?

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Libertarians are anti-tax as a fundamental part of the political philosophy, to a certain extent. Taxation is necessary insofar as it is needed to pay for public goods (as defined by economics). Any taxation used to pay for private (market) goods is theft.

And the Libertarians I know reject both Supply-Side and Demand-Side economics. Supply and Demand, by definition, are interconnected.

Saying you support supply or support demand is like saying you favor your right leg over your left. Have fun trying to walk with just one leg!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

I would agree that true libertarians would not be authoritarian followers...and to your point Kevin...true libertarians also understand that a true free market is completely undermined by corporate subsidies and corporate welfare...

Well that's not a free market then is it?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

Not true at all.

Libertarians are all for lawful user fee type taxation (i.e. fuel taxes), which support the public service for which they are collected.

We're against regressive income, sales and property taxes.

The first six years of the Bush administration put the lie to the myth that the GOP is about controlling spending.

I should have said there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax.

 

[eagleseven]

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

I would agree that true libertarians would not be authoritarian followers...and to your point Kevin...true libertarians also understand that a true free market is completely undermined by corporate subsidies and corporate welfare...

The combination of government and corporate power is fascism, no more and no less. I fought it under Bush, and I continue to fight it under Obama.

Unfortunately, I'm not rich, nor have powerful connections, and so I can't do much more than scream and holler, hoping people will wake up.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

IThe combination of government and corporate power is fascism, no more and no less. I fought it under Bush, and I continue to fight it under Obama.

Unfortunately, I'm not rich, nor have powerful connections, and so I can't do much more than scream and holler, hoping people will wake up.

What are you fighting to replace it with? Is your goal to cut corporations out of campaign funding entirely (which would require a constitutional amendment), or is it something else?

 

[Oddball]

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

Not true at all.

Libertarians are all for lawful user fee type taxation (i.e. fuel taxes), which support the public service for which they are collected.

We're against regressive income, sales and property taxes.

The first six years of the Bush administration put the lie to the myth that the GOP is about controlling spending.

I should have said there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax.

But even they are a minority within the party.

Most I've encountered are for returning to a limited republic, with as equitable and fair system of taxes, for the lawful functions of de jure government, as possible.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not true at all.

Libertarians are all for lawful user fee type taxation (i.e. fuel taxes), which support the public service for which they are collected.

We're against regressive income, sales and property taxes.

The first six years of the Bush administration put the lie to the myth that the GOP is about controlling spending.

I should have said there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax.

But even they are a minority within the party.

Most I've encountered are for returning to a limited republic, with as equitable and fair system of taxes, for the lawful functions of de jure government, as possible.

Well the Libertarian Party isn't the end-all of Libertarianism, and I'd say you're right that most in the LP aren't necessarily anti-tax. I think a defining characteristic of a Libertarian is looking at taxation as theft, whether you're outright anti-tax or see some taxes as a necessary evil I would say is irrelevant.

 

[Oddball]

Well the Libertarian Party isn't the end-all of Libertarianism, and I'd say you're right that most in the LP aren't necessarily anti-tax. I think a defining characteristic of a Libertarian is looking at taxation as theft, whether you're outright anti-tax or see some taxes as a necessary evil I would say is irrelevant.

Not at all.

The "anti-tax" thing is all part of the stereotype that makes it easy for the political bigot to marginalize libertarianism.

 

[Valerie]

Authoritarian tendencies are limited to the GOP why?

Anyone?

You know what puzzles me? Why some are so concerned with an officer of the law verifying an ID at a possible B&E call, yet they're so willing to have the government be privy to their annual colonoscopy report for example.

 

[eagleseven]

IThe combination of government and corporate power is fascism, no more and no less. I fought it under Bush, and I continue to fight it under Obama.

Unfortunately, I'm not rich, nor have powerful connections, and so I can't do much more than scream and holler, hoping people will wake up.

What are you fighting to replace it with? Is your goal to cut corporations out of campaign funding entirely (which would require a constitutional amendment), or is it something else?

Ideally, I would implement a system where there is no incentive for Corporations to donate to politicians because the politicians do not have the power the dramatically affect the markets.

Corporations donate millions to Washington because Washington makes Corporations sink or swim with their regulations and oversight. It was not the free market, but Bush's men, who decided what companies failed last fall. Lehman Brothers was out-donated by Goldman Sachs and AIG.

Government's role in the larger economy ought to be limited to contract litigation, externality fees, and monopoly-busting. Nothing more, nothing less. The less government involvement, the fewer the opportunities for corruption.


Unfortunately, we cannot re-construct our political economy from the ground up, but must work with what we have. For starters, we need to roll-back the governments MASSIVE intervention in the Finance, Automobile, and Health Care sectors.

Our economy is paralyzed because the Government is changing the rules wily-nilly. How can businessmen even contemplate expanding when their plans may be illegal 6 or 12 months from now? Our entire nation hangs in suspense, waiting for Obama to unveil his Grand Plan. Only, it is becomes ever clearer that Obama is making it up as he goes along, as his actions are largely unpredictable.

Even Keynes warned about the dangers of government-induced uncertainty. Fear, fear of chaotic and irrational changes in law, is paralyzing our economy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well the Libertarian Party isn't the end-all of Libertarianism, and I'd say you're right that most in the LP aren't necessarily anti-tax. I think a defining characteristic of a Libertarian is looking at taxation as theft, whether you're outright anti-tax or see some taxes as a necessary evil I would say is irrelevant.

Not at all.

The "anti-tax" thing is all part of the stereotype that makes it easy for the political bigot to marginalize libertarianism.

I don't think it's a stereotype to state a fact that there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax. "Mr. Libertarian" Murray Rothbard was anti-tax as his anarcho-capitalist ideology proves, and there are many Rothbardian Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists.

 

[Oddball]

Well the Libertarian Party isn't the end-all of Libertarianism, and I'd say you're right that most in the LP aren't necessarily anti-tax. I think a defining characteristic of a Libertarian is looking at taxation as theft, whether you're outright anti-tax or see some taxes as a necessary evil I would say is irrelevant.

Not at all.

The "anti-tax" thing is all part of the stereotype that makes it easy for the political bigot to marginalize libertarianism.

I don't think it's a stereotype to state a fact that there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax. "Mr. Libertarian" Murray Rothbard was anti-tax as his anarcho-capitalist ideology proves, and there are many Rothbardian Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists.

Robert Nozick even came up with ways that local fire and police service could be financed without taxation, but Rothbard gets all the hype.

Point being that there are disagreements even amongst libertarians.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not at all.

The "anti-tax" thing is all part of the stereotype that makes it easy for the political bigot to marginalize libertarianism.

I don't think it's a stereotype to state a fact that there are many Libertarians that are anti-tax. "Mr. Libertarian" Murray Rothbard was anti-tax as his anarcho-capitalist ideology proves, and there are many Rothbardian Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists.

Robert Nozick even came up with ways that local fire and police service could be financed without taxation, but Rothbard gets all the hype.

Point being that there are disagreements even amongst libertarians.

There's no doubt about that.

 

[Political Junky]

Triumph of the authoritarians

By John W. Dean | July 14, 2006

CONTEMPORARY CONSERVATISM and its influence on the Republican Party was, until recently, a mystery to me. The practitioners' bludgeoning style of politics, their self-serving manipulation of the political processes, and their policies that focus narrowly on perceived self-interest -- none of this struck me as based on anything related to traditional conservatism. Rather, truth be told, today's so-called conservatives are quite radical.

For more than 40 years I have considered myself a ``Goldwater conservative," and am thoroughly familiar with the movement's canon. But I can find nothing conservative about the Bush/Cheney White House, which has created a Nixon ``imperial presidency" on steroids, while acting as if being tutored by the best and brightest of the Cosa Nostra.

What true conservative calls for packing the courts to politicize the federal judiciary to the degree that it is now possible to determine the outcome of cases by looking at the prior politics of judges? Where is the conservative precedent for the monocratic leadership style that conservative Republicans imposed on the US House when they took control in 1994, a style that seeks primarily to perfect fund-raising skills while outsourcing the writing of legislation to special interests and freezing Democrats out of the legislative process?

How can those who claim themselves conservatives seek to destroy the deliberative nature of the US Senate by eliminating its extended-debate tradition, which has been the institution's distinctive contribution to our democracy? Yet that is precisely what Republican Senate leaders want to do by eliminating the filibuster when dealing with executive business (namely judicial appointments).

Today's Republican policies are antithetical to bedrock conservative fundamentals. There is nothing conservative about preemptive wars or disregarding international law by condoning torture. Abandoning fiscal responsibility is now standard operating procedure. Bible-thumping, finger-pointing, tongue-lashing attacks on homosexuals are not found in Russell Krik's classic conservative canons, nor in James Burham's guides to conservative governing. Conservatives in the tradition of former senator Barry Goldwater and President Ronald Reagan believed in ``conserving" this planet, not relaxing environmental laws to make life easier for big business. And neither man would have considered employing Christian evangelical criteria in federal programs, ranging from restricting stem cell research to fighting AIDs through abstinence.

Candid and knowledgeable Republicans on the far right concede -- usually only when not speaking for attribution -- that they are not truly conservative. They do not like to talk about why they behave as they do, or even to reflect on it. Nonetheless, their leaders admit they like being in charge, and their followers grant they find comfort in strong leaders who make them feel safe. This is what I gleaned from discussions with countless conservative leaders and followers, over a decade of questioning.

I started my inquiry in the mid-1990s, after a series of conversations with Goldwater, whom I had known for more than 40 years. Goldwater was also mystified (when not miffed) by the direction of today's professed conservatives -- their growing incivility, pugnacious attitudes, and arrogant and antagonistic style, along with a narrow outlook intolerant of those who challenge their thinking. He worried that the Republican Party had sold its soul to Christian fundamentalists, whose divisive social values would polarize the nation. From those conversations, Goldwater and I planned to study why these people behave as they do, and to author a book laying out what we found. Sadly, the senator's declining health soon precluded his continuing on the project, so I put it on the shelf. But I kept digging until I found some answers, and here are my thoughts.

For almost half a century, social scientists have been exploring authoritarianism. We do not typically associate authoritarianism with our democracy, but as I discovered while examining decades of empirical research, we ignore some findings at our risk. Unfortunately, the social scientists who have studied these issues report their findings in monographs and professional journals written for their peers, not for general readers. With the help of a leading researcher and others, I waded into this massive body of work.

What I found provided a personal epiphany. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, ``enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades.

Authoritarianism's impact on contemporary conservatism is beyond question. Because this impact is still growing and has troubling (if not actually evil) implications, I hope that social scientists will begin to write about this issue for general readers. It is long past time to bring the telling results of their empirical work into the public square and to the attention of American voters. No less than the health of our democracy may depend on this being done. We need to stop thinking we are dealing with traditional conservatives on the modern stage, and instead recognize that they've often been supplanted by authoritarians.

John W. Dean, former Nixon White House counsel, just published his seventh nonfiction book, ``Conservatives Without Conscience."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/07/14/triumph_of_the_authoritarians/

Thanks, I've seen John Dean interviewed many times on the subject. He said that 20% of modern conservatives would follow their authoritarian figure over a cliff.

 

[Political Junky]

I won't argue the point that Libertarians aren't saints, but what modern right wing line is spouted by Libertarians?

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

Arizona considers selling their state capitol and will pay rent, in order to avoid raising taxes.

The Associated Press: Ariz. lawmakers consider selling Capitol buildings

Ariz. lawmakers consider selling Capitol buildings
(AP) – 56 minutes ago
PHOENIX — Desperate for cash, Arizona state lawmakers are considering selling the House and Senate buildings, then leasing them back over several years before assuming ownership again.
Dozens of other state buildings may also be sold off and leased back as the state grapples with a huge budget deficit.
Other "candidate properties" range from state prisons and the mental hospital to run-of-the-mill state office buildings and Kartchner Caverns State Park, the crown jewel of the state parks system.
Under the complex financial arrangement, state government services would continue without interruption while the state picks up a cash infusion estimated by Capitol number-crunchers at $735 million.
For investors, the deal means long term lease payments from a stable source.
Legislation to set the refinancing plan in motion is part of a budget-balancing plan being considered by the Legislature Wednesday for the fiscal year that began July 1.
The legislation does not specify which specific properties would be sold, and a candidates list provided to lawmakers only specifies the price to replace properties, not the amounts each would fetch in a refinancing.
Arizona faces a projected $3.4 billion shortfall on a budget with spending of $10.7 billion.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

Government's role in the larger economy ought to be limited to contract litigation, externality fees, and monopoly-busting. Nothing more, nothing less. The less government involvement, the fewer the opportunities for corruption.

No SEC? No licensing of the electromagnetic spectrum? No child labor laws?

Unfortunately, we cannot re-construct our political economy from the ground up...

Of course we can. We can have a constitutional convention and rewrite the entire document from scratch, if enough states agree. (If it included taking all donations out of campaigning, I might even get on board...)

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Most commonly, the anti-tax and supply-side economic mantras. It wasn't uncommon to see Libertarians at the local tea parties.

Well I don't know many conservatives that are actually anti-tax. You're right that Libertarians are anti-tax, but that's because we view taxation as theft. I don't think many Libertarians support supply-side economics, so much as we support free market economics.

Arizona considers selling their state capitol and will pay rent, in order to avoid raising taxes.

The Associated Press: Ariz. lawmakers consider selling Capitol buildings

Ariz. lawmakers consider selling Capitol buildings
(AP) – 56 minutes ago
PHOENIX — Desperate for cash, Arizona state lawmakers are considering selling the House and Senate buildings, then leasing them back over several years before assuming ownership again.
Dozens of other state buildings may also be sold off and leased back as the state grapples with a huge budget deficit.
Other "candidate properties" range from state prisons and the mental hospital to run-of-the-mill state office buildings and Kartchner Caverns State Park, the crown jewel of the state parks system.
Under the complex financial arrangement, state government services would continue without interruption while the state picks up a cash infusion estimated by Capitol number-crunchers at $735 million.
For investors, the deal means long term lease payments from a stable source.
Legislation to set the refinancing plan in motion is part of a budget-balancing plan being considered by the Legislature Wednesday for the fiscal year that began July 1.
The legislation does not specify which specific properties would be sold, and a candidates list provided to lawmakers only specifies the price to replace properties, not the amounts each would fetch in a refinancing.
Arizona faces a projected $3.4 billion shortfall on a budget with spending of $10.7 billion.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Oh, gee, what about the autoritarian Democrats that want to control our health care system in the name of "reform" and certain aspects of our lifestyles in the name of "improving health" or "protecting the environment"?!

Si si aha.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

Come now. The New GOP is a bunch of crazy pseudoreligious authoritarians with a foreign policy that is liberal but at gunpoint instead of diplomacy.

Democrats suck too, but they openly campaign as socialists. Republicans claim to be the party of Goldwater and the (Incredible Myth of) Reagan, and do the same thing.