The Atomic bombs

[dilloduck]

Hell, I'll RAISE you Dresden.

Firebombing Tokyo is a shit stain on our hands too. If our military, in whatever capacity we understand it, can get away with the mass murder of the civilian population of the perceived enemy then guess how silly it looks to regurgitate 9/11 every other sentence?

If the GERMANS sucked for bombing the shit out of London then guess where soon-to-be-dead civilians in Dresden could have pointed a finger. It's easy to say that the victor writes the history and gets to polish the turds of it's own similar behaviour but it really is a two way street. If WE don't like it when saudi muslims perceive us as the enemy and fly planes into OUR civilians then it makes no sense to make EXCUSES for killing of our enemies civilians. Hell, do you include every Vietnamese civilian caught up in napalm too?

I guess iraqi insurgents could conceivably find their way here and blow up new york and you'd just say, "well, thats war! We play to win TOO!"? No. THEN it's a fucking travesty of humanity. Meanwhile, you rationalize dropping a fucking nuke on two cities in Japan. Do you just not see the irony of the double standard?

How about sticking to this war and tell us where the us has intentionally targeted mass civilian casualties

 

[doniston]

Please read up on the firebombings of Japanese civilians---the made the nukes look like firecrackers.

1. where in hell did youn get that garbage?----and

2.what does that have to do with the issues of this thread.--the nuke bombs, remember????????????

 

[doniston]

How about sticking to this war and tell us where the us has intentionally targeted mass civilian casualties

kettle/pot/black?? you are the one who strayed when you mentionmd firebombing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hell, I'll RAISE you Dresden.

Firebombing Tokyo is a shit stain on our hands too. If our military, in whatever capacity we understand it, can get away with the mass murder of the civilian population of the perceived enemy then guess how silly it looks to regurgitate 9/11 every other sentence?

If the GERMANS sucked for bombing the shit out of London then guess where soon-to-be-dead civilians in Dresden could have pointed a finger. It's easy to say that the victor writes the history and gets to polish the turds of it's own similar behaviour but it really is a two way street. If WE don't like it when saudi muslims perceive us as the enemy and fly planes into OUR civilians then it makes no sense to make EXCUSES for killing of our enemies civilians. Hell, do you include every Vietnamese civilian caught up in napalm too?

I guess iraqi insurgents could conceivably find their way here and blow up new york and you'd just say, "well, thats war! We play to win TOO!"? No. THEN it's a fucking travesty of humanity. Meanwhile, you rationalize dropping a fucking nuke on two cities in Japan. Do you just not see the irony of the double standard?

Moronic drivel, BUT hey expected from the source.

 

[Shogun]

How about sticking to this war and tell us where the us has intentionally targeted mass civilian casualties

How about reading the thread and comprehending what that post was meant to answer?

Better yet, should I get the smelling salts for you because you don't seem to be aware that THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ATOMIC FUCKING BOMBS AND NOT IRAQ.

 

[Shogun]

Moronic drivel, BUT hey expected from the source.

Hey, RGS.. You can go fuck yourself, buddy. I post about Dresden and the FACT is you are too much of a pussy to reply with anything more than an uncreative insult. Be sure to tell me how it's the LEFT that does shit like this.

In case you didn't take your brain pills today I'll invite you to go read about the aftermath of Dresden, specifically how many called it a war crime with even Churchill feeling remorseful, so that your next post can have a bit more merit than the MORONIC DRIVEL that is baseless ad hominems.

Are you going to insist that I don't post sources and then run lke a bitch into the net ether when I call you out on it? Perhaps this is another occasion where you insist that I don't reprimand my own team players and then *poof* disappear when I remind of you the laundry list of lefties on this board that I've taken to task... I dunno, man. I think maybe you are feeling a little displaced by newbies who are more interesting than your gnarled crotchety old grumpy leatherneck routine...






come on, RGS.. say one more stupid fucking thing so I can post the primary source of words by Churchill about fire bombing fucking civilians.. PLEASE.

 

[Shogun]

kettle/pot/black?? you are the one who strayed when you mentionmd firebombing.

How about sticking to this war and tell us where the us has intentionally targeted mass civilian casualties

Please read up on the firebombings of Japanese civilians---the made the nukes look like firecrackers.

DOH! Donnie SHOOTS, Donnie SCORES!

 

[dilloduck]

kettle/pot/black?? you are the one who strayed when you mentionmd firebombing.

What are you talking about ?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hey, RGS.. You can go fuck yourself, buddy. I post about Dresden and the FACT is you are too much of a pussy to reply with anything more than an uncreative insult. Be sure to tell me how it's the LEFT that does shit like this.

In case you didn't take your brain pills today I'll invite you to go read about the aftermath of Dresden, specifically how many called it a war crime with even Churchill feeling remorseful, so that your next post can have a bit more merit than the MORONIC DRIVEL that is baseless ad hominems.

Are you going to insist that I don't post sources and then run lke a bitch into the net ether when I call you out on it? Perhaps this is another occasion where you insist that I don't reprimand my own team players and then *poof* disappear when I remind of you the laundry list of lefties on this board that I've taken to task... I dunno, man. I think maybe you are feeling a little displaced by newbies who are more interesting than your gnarled crotchety old grumpy leatherneck routine...






come on, RGS.. say one more stupid fucking thing so I can post the primary source of words by Churchill about fire bombing fucking civilians.. PLEASE.

I do not give a rat's ass what Churchill said about his country fire bombing Dresden. Post it all you want.

 

[doniston]

What are you talking about ?

I am the one who posted that, not Shogun, and in response to your post #39.

 

[Gunny]

it's nice to see the chickenhawks applauding how we dropped nukes on Japan's civilians because Japan would not give up on it's own....


...but will cry the loudest about 9/11 killing OUR civilians even though we also have no intention of rolling over...


apparently, Jap civilians in two cities are less than American civilians at the WTC.


Im sure the world isn't scoffing at such logic. They probably don't also make the same observation when our pet israel flaunts it's double standard in having nukes... Indeed, No one probably pays attention to the clearly selective reason being filtered through a pair of ethnocentric shades..

I can't say that I follow your comparison. We were at war with Japan. We didn't just show up and nuke the place out of the blue. JAPAN showed up at Pearl Harbor out of the blue and bombed the shit out of us.

9/11 was an unprovoked attack as well.

You cannot compare one to the other once the motivation for the attacks is put in proper perspective.

 

[Gunny]

Hell, I'll RAISE you Dresden.

Firebombing Tokyo is a shit stain on our hands too. If our military, in whatever capacity we understand it, can get away with the mass murder of the civilian population of the perceived enemy then guess how silly it looks to regurgitate 9/11 every other sentence?

If the GERMANS sucked for bombing the shit out of London then guess where soon-to-be-dead civilians in Dresden could have pointed a finger. It's easy to say that the victor writes the history and gets to polish the turds of it's own similar behaviour but it really is a two way street. If WE don't like it when saudi muslims perceive us as the enemy and fly planes into OUR civilians then it makes no sense to make EXCUSES for killing of our enemies civilians. Hell, do you include every Vietnamese civilian caught up in napalm too?

I guess iraqi insurgents could conceivably find their way here and blow up new york and you'd just say, "well, thats war! We play to win TOO!"? No. THEN it's a fucking travesty of humanity. Meanwhile, you rationalize dropping a fucking nuke on two cities in Japan. Do you just not see the irony of the double standard?

What I'm seeing here is today's moral standard -- by which we cannot win a war btw, it seems -- is being used to judge people of a different era who fought wars to win them, no matter the price.

Civilians have always been casualties of war, and most likely always will be. You cannot allow not wanting to harm noncombatants to dictate strategy or tactics. We happen to be the absolute most obsessive at doing just that.

Might as well just turn your weapons over to the enemy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

they are not comparable.

The are when the issue is "civilian casualties"

1.it may not have been necessary at all

Same can be said for the incendiary raid(s) on Tokyo

2.you are ignoring the radiation after effects, deaths, birth deformations, etc.

When the issue is "civilain casualties", then casualties are casualties.

So -- what's the difference?
Explain why the bombing of Hiroshim was so much worse than the bombing(s) of Tokyo.

 

[Shogun]

I do not give a rat's ass what Churchill said about his country fire bombing Dresden. Post it all you want.

Of course you don't give a rats ass about historic fact when running to the ad hominems is easier.


Im confident that you dont care that it was seen as a war crime by many and reason to part from the geneva convention by Germany. I'm absolutely positive that your "do as I say, not as I do" mentality keeps you from figuring out how the world laughs at the notion that the ONLY nation to ever USE a nuke somehow thinks it is the worlds nuclear watchdog. Beyond obvious Israeli double standards you probably really DONT understand how insisting on rationalizing nukes dropped on enemies opens the same option for nukes to be dropped on the US.


hey... WHY take mustard gas off the table too, right? I mean, WAR is brutal, right? We tie our hands behind our backs if we don't allow ourselves to use MUSTARD GAS!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Of course you don't give a rats ass about historic fact when running to the ad hominems is easier.


Im confident that you dont care that it was seen as a war crime by many and reason to part from the geneva convention by Germany. I'm absolutely positive that your "do as I say, not as I do" mentality keeps you from figuring out how the world laughs at the notion that the ONLY nation to ever USE a nuke somehow thinks it is the worlds nuclear watchdog. Beyond obvious Israeli double standards you probably really DONT understand how insisting on rationalizing nukes dropped on enemies opens the same option for nukes to be dropped on the US.


hey... WHY take mustard gas off the table too, right? I mean, WAR is brutal, right? We tie our hands behind our backs if we don't allow ourselves to use MUSTARD GAS!

Why yes, you have convinced me, we should just allow anyone and everyone to have these weapons. Who cares if Osam Bin Laden has them, none of our business at all. Thanks for opening my eyes.

 

[Shogun]

I can't say that I follow your comparison. We were at war with Japan. We didn't just show up and nuke the place out of the blue. JAPAN showed up at Pearl Harbor out of the blue and bombed the shit out of us.

9/11 was an unprovoked attack as well.

You cannot compare one to the other once the motivation for the attacks is put in proper perspective.

If you can rationalize tossing a nuke AT someone then be prepared to catch a nuke from people who can rationalize their own motivations just as easy as you can rationalize yours. It is exactly the fact the WE don't show up and kill civilian populations that set us apart.. Well, until we start rationalizing nuking civilian cities in some wanton act of revenge meant to, apparently, show the world who has the biggest dick on the planet. PROPER PERSPECTIVE, eh? EVERYONE has their own version of that. Even people who rationalize flying planes into buildings.

 

[Shogun]

What I'm seeing here is today's moral standard -- by which we cannot win a war btw, it seems -- is being used to judge people of a different era who fought wars to win them, no matter the price.

Civilians have always been casualties of war, and most likely always will be. You cannot allow not wanting to harm noncombatants to dictate strategy or tactics. We happen to be the absolute most obsessive at doing just that.

Might as well just turn your weapons over to the enemy.

Hey, do you feel the same way about mustard gas and landmines? Can't fathom ANY other way to win a conflict besides the threat of nukes? Kinda selling your country short there, don't you think? Indeed, WW1 was fought to win too. Is trenched out suffocation on the chemical cocktail gas of the day worth it? Should we also salt their land too?

Can you tell me about how 9/11 were merely Civilian Casualties of war since THEY can rationalize against their OWN emenies just like we can?

I don't think it's a matter of turning over weapons just because we have a standard of behaviour that doesn't allow nukes and genocide like the enemies we claim moral authority over.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you can rationalize tossing a nuke AT someone then be prepared to catch a nuke from people who can rationalize their own motivations just as easy as you can rationalize yours. It is exactly the fact the WE don't show up and kill civilian populations that set us apart.. Well, until we start rationalizing nuking civilian cities in some wanton act of revenge meant to, apparently, show the world who has the biggest dick on the planet. PROPER PERSPECTIVE, eh? EVERYONE has their own version of that. Even people who rationalize flying planes into buildings.

Your an idiot on this, WE did not nuke anyone for Revenge. In fact those nukes SAVED lives and ended a war that would have , if it continued, caused MILLIONS of dead , mostly Japanese. I have provided ample proof of this. Shall i go find you that link to SOURCE documents that prove Japan would not have surrendered with out their use?

Even assuming, which is a BIG assumption considering even after 2 nukes and a war with the Soviets did not budge the ruling members of the Japanese Government, that Japan eventually surrendered before we invaded, it would have been months, during which we bombed them, and they starved because they had no shipping left to bring in food and fuel.

An Invasion would have seen millions of dead Japanese , civilian and military. We would have lost hundreds of thousands, the predictions were 1 million casualties on the invasion force. Lets look at Iwo Jima , 1 in 3 military personnel that landed on that island became a casualty over 26 thousand, of which over 6 thousand died. 75000 were eventually landed on the island over all. Yet as I recall there were no where near that number of Japanese troops there.

The Japanese plan for defense of the Home Islands included the order that all civilians get bamboo spears and that they charge allied positions in human wave assaults to drive the invaders off the island. Further when that failed Saipan and Okinawa showed graphicly that the surviving civilian and military population would commit suicide rather than surrender. Nearly the entire Japanese race could have died on the first Island we invaded. And there is no reason to think the Army Generals that controlled the Government would have surrendered even then.

 

[AllieBaba]

War is war. When you've been attacked, and you take the battle to them and kick their asses, it's pointless and without merit to then boo-hoo over the fact that you did so.

The problem is, Shogun and others like him have had too many years enjoying the things that our soldiers paid for with blood. They've forgotten that no country can just exist peaceably and expect to exist for long.

 

[M14 Shooter]

War is war. When you've been attacked, and you take the battle to them and kick their asses, it's pointless and without merit to then boo-hoo over the fact that you did so.

The problem is, Shogun and others like him have had too many years enjoying the things that our soldiers paid for with blood. They've forgotten that no country can just exist peaceably and expect to exist for long.

Thank God that people with his mindset were not running the war.

Unfortunately, however, I fear that those with his mindset will be running a future war...