The anchor baby myth

johnwk

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May 24, 2009
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We are led to believe that if a foreigner enters our country illegally and gives birth to a child, that child, because of the 14th Amendment, becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth. As we shall see, that is one of the biggest myths alleged concerning the text and legislative intent of the 14th Amendment. Let us look at some documented facts.


In IN RE SLAUGHTER-HOUSE CASES, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) the Court states the following regarding the 14th Amendment:

“That its main purpose was to establish the citizenship of the negro can admit of no doubt. The phrase, subject to its jurisdiction' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“.


And why would the Court indicate the wording in the 14th Amendment which declares “and subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude from citizenship “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“?

The answer is to be found in the Congressional Globe, 39th Congress, which framed and debated the 14th Amendment. For example, in discussing the proposed 14th Amendment, Senator Howard explains the clear intentions of the 14th Amendment as follows:

The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.(my emphasis) see: Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) pg. 2890


Later, and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows SEE: page 2893, Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866)
1st column halfway down

“The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”

Mr. Trumbull later emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”


Mr. JOHNSON then rises to say: “…there is no definition in the Constitution as it now stands as to citizenship. Who is a citizen of the United States is an open question….there is no definition as to how citizenship can exist in the United States except through the medium of a citizenship in a State.

“Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power--for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us--shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”
…he then continues “…the amendment says that citizenship may depend upon birth, and I know of no better way to give rise to citizenship than the fact of birth within the territory of the United States, born of parents who at the time were subject to the authority of the United States.”

And then there is John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendments first section who considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” Cong. Globe, page 1291(March 9, 1866) middle column half way down.

And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.

JWK



"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)
 
I live in Arizona and it NOT a myth, it's a FACT.


You do understand that this isn't 1866 and the supreme court as addressed that particular argument, don't you? Try to at least relate to reality in THIS century, if you can.
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?

There are enough fruitcakes in the house to try to make something out of it, but I suspect they wouldn't have any more success than they did with those more than 50 votes to end healthcare. Feel free to try though.
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?
People born here because of criminal intent OR actions should NOT be called citizens.


Great. Why don't you bring that up the next time you're relaxing with the members of the supreme court?
 
We are led to believe that if a foreigner enters our country illegally and gives birth to a child, that child, because of the 14th Amendment, becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth. As we shall see, that is one of the biggest myths alleged concerning the text and legislative intent of the 14th Amendment. Let us look at some documented facts.


In IN RE SLAUGHTER-HOUSE CASES, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) the Court states the following regarding the 14th Amendment:

“That its main purpose was to establish the citizenship of the negro can admit of no doubt. The phrase, subject to its jurisdiction' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“.


And why would the Court indicate the wording in the 14th Amendment which declares “and subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude from citizenship “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“?

The answer is to be found in the Congressional Globe, 39th Congress, which framed and debated the 14th Amendment. For example, in discussing the proposed 14th Amendment, Senator Howard explains the clear intentions of the 14th Amendment as follows:

The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.(my emphasis) see: Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) pg. 2890


Later, and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows SEE: page 2893, Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866)
1st column halfway down

“The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”

Mr. Trumbull later emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”


Mr. JOHNSON then rises to say: “…there is no definition in the Constitution as it now stands as to citizenship. Who is a citizen of the United States is an open question….there is no definition as to how citizenship can exist in the United States except through the medium of a citizenship in a State.

“Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power--for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us--shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”
…he then continues “…the amendment says that citizenship may depend upon birth, and I know of no better way to give rise to citizenship than the fact of birth within the territory of the United States, born of parents who at the time were subject to the authority of the United States.”

And then there is John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendments first section who considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” Cong. Globe, page 1291(March 9, 1866) middle column half way down.

And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.

JWK



"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)

Dear johnwk There is some deep rooted political BELIEF, almost religious, that a person is of the nation they are born in.

I ran across this as a religious belief in the most ironic way.

I was proposing that citizenship be based on commitment to uphold the laws and to accept financial and legal responsibility, especially if one commits "premeditated" violations of law, is convicted, and costs taxpayers and victims money for the abuses.

And that INSTEAD of trying to authorize govt to "take a life" or use capital punishment to answer for crimes,
punishment could be based on owing restitution PROPORTIONAL to the crimes and damages caused,
INCLUDING REVOKING CITIZENSHIP.

HOWEVER, when I presented this concept to different people to get feedback on it,
I found out at least one person who BELIEVED the state had MORE right to terminate life
than to terminate Citizenship. I thought it was the other way around!

So this idea of citizenship based on "birthright" is so embedded as a belief in people's natural thinking,
it is even seen as "inalienable" even next to the right to life that I thought required divine authority.

Apparently there are people who believe the state can make issues of life or death a statutory rule the govt can decide,
but when it comes to BIRTHRIGHT, no, not all citizens agree this is arbitrary to be decided by democratic process.
At least one person I met felt it was a divine right outside the jurisdiction of govt to change.

if you can BELIEVE that.

I found it hard to believe, given that terminating life is something often attributed to God as the only authority, not man.
And here, even citizenship is seen as divinely granted and not something the state can revoke. Really!
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?
People born here because of criminal intent OR actions should NOT be called citizens.


Great. Why don't you bring that up the next time you're relaxing with the members of the supreme court?
images18D5RUQQ.jpg
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?
People born here because of criminal intent OR actions should NOT be called citizens.

Dear DarkFury
1. the parents who committed the violations should owe restitution,
and not get a free ride, the same as people who did NOT commit any violations

2. why not have ALL citizens earn privileges? So it isn't discriminating on the basis of being born here or not.
The price for citizenship is that you can't deliberately commit crimes, and run up the tab on taxpayers' expenses.
Every citizen signs for legal and financial responsibility for costs incurred; if unable to, then a sponsor must cosign who accepts legal and financial responsibility.
That means if you do commit premeditated violations, then you (or your sponsoring guardian or organization) agrees to pay restitution and any legal or adminstrative/prosecution costs so this doesn't burden the public/taxpayers.

That way whatever policy people follow, they pay for. Not someone else who didn't agree to pay extra
when someone else commits crimes and costs taxpayers more money than they can afford.

As a condition on citizenship, teach each legal citizen the COST of different actions; so if they commit that deliberately, they have signed agreement to pay the cost for that.

Don't you think that might deter crime if people were held to pay the costs of their actions?

3. have each district sign agreements, and people who can't agree can live in different districts with different tax rates depending on the policy for cost of violations. The districts that succeed in reducing crime rates get to invest more taxes in school and community programs and business development. If some districts want to specialize in mentoring people in recovery from addiction, abuse or crime, then the resources can be invested in those programs. So the Democrats who WANT to fund people in poverty until they become independent can sponsor such programs and participants in district DESIGNED to educate and house and train such populations. Instead of prisons, build schools and manage these programs where there is a check on the budget. Not just making money off crime where the contracts go to big industry profits. The money saved means support for the programs to help more people. So if the rehab is successful, crime is cut and costs are reduced, then those same resources can pay for housing, health care, job training and other services for enrollees in the program.

Earned Amnesty
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?
People born here because of criminal intent OR actions should NOT be called citizens.

Dear DarkFury
1. the parents who committed the violations should owe restitution,
and not get a free ride, the same as people who did NOT commit any violations

2. why not have ALL citizens earn privileges? So it isn't discriminating on the basis of being born here or not.
The price for citizenship is that you can't deliberately commit crimes, and run up the tab on taxpayers' expenses.
Every citizen signs for legal and financial responsibility for costs incurred; if unable to, then a sponsor must cosign who accepts legal and financial responsibility.
That means if you do commit premeditated violations, then you (or your sponsoring guardian or organization) agrees to pay restitution and any legal or adminstrative/prosecution costs so this doesn't burden the public/taxpayers.

That way whatever policy people follow, they pay for. Not someone else who didn't agree to pay extra
when someone else commits crimes and costs taxpayers more money than they can afford.

As a condition on citizenship, teach each legal citizen the COST of different actions; so if they commit that deliberately, they have signed agreement to pay the cost for that.

Don't you think that might deter crime if people were held to pay the costs of their actions?

3. have each district sign agreements, and people who can't agree can live in different districts with different tax rates depending on the policy for cost of violations. The districts that succeed in reducing crime rates get to invest more taxes in school and community programs and business development. If some districts want to specialize in mentoring people in recovery from addiction, abuse or crime, then the resources can be invested in those programs. So the Democrats who WANT to fund people in poverty until they become independent can sponsor such programs and participants in district DESIGNED to educate and house and train such populations. Instead of prisons, build schools and manage these programs where there is a check on the budget. Not just making money off crime where the contracts go to big industry profits. The money saved means support for the programs to help more people. So if the rehab is successful, crime is cut and costs are reduced, then those same resources can pay for housing, health care, job training and other services for enrollees in the program.

Earned Amnesty
The babies go on welfare.
The parents get to stay.
The parents get the checks.
It's fraud via a proxy.
They are using the proxy "child" to commit that fraud.
They have ALREADY demeaned that child to that of a tool.
DEPORT ONE AND ALL.
 
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Seems rather straightforward to me. Doesn't even mention the need for a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
 
And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.

And yet, they are. So I guess that makes you wrong.
 
We are led to believe that if a foreigner enters our country illegally and gives birth to a child, that child, because of the 14th Amendment, becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth. As we shall see, that is one of the biggest myths alleged concerning the text and legislative intent of the 14th Amendment. Let us look at some documented facts.


In IN RE SLAUGHTER-HOUSE CASES, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) the Court states the following regarding the 14th Amendment:

“That its main purpose was to establish the citizenship of the negro can admit of no doubt. The phrase, subject to its jurisdiction' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“.


And why would the Court indicate the wording in the 14th Amendment which declares “and subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude from citizenship “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“?

The answer is to be found in the Congressional Globe, 39th Congress, which framed and debated the 14th Amendment. For example, in discussing the proposed 14th Amendment, Senator Howard explains the clear intentions of the 14th Amendment as follows:

The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.(my emphasis) see: Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) pg. 2890


Later, and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows SEE: page 2893, Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866)
1st column halfway down

“The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”

Mr. Trumbull later emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”


Mr. JOHNSON then rises to say: “…there is no definition in the Constitution as it now stands as to citizenship. Who is a citizen of the United States is an open question….there is no definition as to how citizenship can exist in the United States except through the medium of a citizenship in a State.

“Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power--for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us--shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”
…he then continues “…the amendment says that citizenship may depend upon birth, and I know of no better way to give rise to citizenship than the fact of birth within the territory of the United States, born of parents who at the time were subject to the authority of the United States.”

And then there is John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendments first section who considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” Cong. Globe, page 1291(March 9, 1866) middle column half way down.

And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.

JWK



"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)

You're an idiot.

United States v. Wong Kim Ark US Law LII Legal Information Institute
 
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Seems rather straightforward to me. Doesn't even mention the need for a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,


Don't need a "well regulated militia" for any other right either.
 
Has anyone challenged this over the past half century? Has this issue been brought before Congress over the past half century? Is it being ignored or misinterpreted by states, and by the federal government?
People born here because of criminal intent OR actions should NOT be called citizens.

Dear DarkFury
1. the parents who committed the violations should owe restitution,
and not get a free ride, the same as people who did NOT commit any violations

2. why not have ALL citizens earn privileges? So it isn't discriminating on the basis of being born here or not.
The price for citizenship is that you can't deliberately commit crimes, and run up the tab on taxpayers' expenses.
Every citizen signs for legal and financial responsibility for costs incurred; if unable to, then a sponsor must cosign who accepts legal and financial responsibility.
That means if you do commit premeditated violations, then you (or your sponsoring guardian or organization) agrees to pay restitution and any legal or adminstrative/prosecution costs so this doesn't burden the public/taxpayers.

That way whatever policy people follow, they pay for. Not someone else who didn't agree to pay extra
when someone else commits crimes and costs taxpayers more money than they can afford.

As a condition on citizenship, teach each legal citizen the COST of different actions; so if they commit that deliberately, they have signed agreement to pay the cost for that.

Don't you think that might deter crime if people were held to pay the costs of their actions?

3. have each district sign agreements, and people who can't agree can live in different districts with different tax rates depending on the policy for cost of violations. The districts that succeed in reducing crime rates get to invest more taxes in school and community programs and business development. If some districts want to specialize in mentoring people in recovery from addiction, abuse or crime, then the resources can be invested in those programs. So the Democrats who WANT to fund people in poverty until they become independent can sponsor such programs and participants in district DESIGNED to educate and house and train such populations. Instead of prisons, build schools and manage these programs where there is a check on the budget. Not just making money off crime where the contracts go to big industry profits. The money saved means support for the programs to help more people. So if the rehab is successful, crime is cut and costs are reduced, then those same resources can pay for housing, health care, job training and other services for enrollees in the program.

Earned Amnesty
The babies go on welfare.
The parents get to stay.
The parents get the checks.
It's fraud via a proxy.
They are using the proxy "child" to commit that fraud.
They have ALREADY demeaned that child to that of a tool.
DEPORT ONE AND ALL.

Deporting isn't enough to solve the problem.
Why not require restitution for the wrongs committed.

If you cannot work off the debt incurred, then you wait in line until you do.
while people who didn't commit crimes get to register first with no wait.

And if you fail to disclose any violations, that counts against your citizenship application,
such as tripling the time you will owe.

Why not make the credits required for citizenship
PROPORTIONAL to the degree and length of time of the violations?

If all crime is treated the same, all deported, what motivation is there to fix anything?
If anything you do wrong is going to be counted the same,
how does that deter worse crimes?

If it is proportional, then the fewer violations the easier it is to apply.
And the more you lie about your record, that will cost more also.

That would reward people who don't cheat or lie, but follow the rules.

As for deportation, why reserve this only for immigrants.
Why not treat ALL citizens who commit violations with the same serious consequences
that if you refuse to work with authorities to pay restitution, then you also risk losing
citizenship and trading places with an applicant who is HAPPY to follow the laws and not commit any crimes.

So we would reward law-abiding behavior (regardless if born here or not)
and require restitution for violations (regardless if born here or not).

If people paid the price tag for their behavior, don't you think there would be
greater respect for following the law and enforcing common civic standards?
 
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Seems rather straightforward to me. Doesn't even mention the need for a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,


Don't need a "well regulated militia" for any other right either.
Yes, we do: To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
 
And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.

And yet, they are. So I guess that makes you wrong.
Maybe NOT. Is it a LEGAL birth or a CRIMINAL act?
Are the parents NOT committing a felony?
Is that birth not the result of that felony?
Do the parents know beforehand it's a felony?

What you have is the result of a crime NOT something done legal.
It should be viewed as no different then entering this country with a fake passport.
 

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