The Anarchist Prophets

[Agnapostate]

Anarchists do not get the right to redefine the meaning of a word.

They ought to change their name to better reflect the form of government they want and getting the word ANARCHIST out of it would be a good move marketing-wise.

What you want is a kind of locally decentralized socialism, not anarchy.

Anarchism as a self-description has always involves "locally decentralized socialism" since Proudhon's declaration of anarchism in 1840. How does your misconception stand against 160 years of history?

 

[mascale]

Anarchy is usually ascribed to Zeno, and the Cynics, of reason, not authority, in control. The Diggers, of England, 1649 understood the need for an economic antecedant, however--since they were poor. "You poor take courage, you rich take care, the earth was made a common treasury for everyone to share all things in common," is Digger ascribed.

There is a clear recognition of an income scale, (reason, and of a logical system), and a clear Cynics need of reason and nature. There is a clear need of an international antecedant to an anarchy--English understood, 1649! "Le Anarchy, C'Est Moi," is actually not self-descriptive of anarchists at all.

The more English concept gets more back to basics, and at any rate the founding fellow became a Quaker. Soon enough, toilets would happen: But later on.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred."
(Even the Vatican likes to acknowledge that The Holy Father was simply doing the right and Christian thing, for the time: Strongly imbued with the values in which he was clearly raised! He was, after all, not raised in France, at all: But was simply a European, Continental, kind of guy!)

 

[Agnapostate]

Only in the sense that utilitarianism could be ascribed to the Epicureans. A distant forerunner does not a coherent beginning of a philosophy make.

 

[mascale]

Anarchy is from the Greek, and the influence of the ancient Greeks tends to be timeless, even now, and even in history(?)! The fellow from France came upon a concept, and used it erroneously. Others from France have noticed storks in villages with babies: Ergo. . . ., even in Greek!

Since The Holy Father comes from Europe, then it is useful to know the Europe that he came from, for example. If the concept is Greek, and ancient: Were there likely Greeks who understood it, followed it, and followed it through? The concept seems to surface throughout history.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Surely, in The Colonies even now: There are still likely millions who can understand the concept, "Follow Through!" Recently, admittedly, the concept, "Scottish Origins," seems both troublesome, and Korean--as some nature of peril, even to airline travelers, apparently! Actually, the Scots are probably not like The American FBI, or the Chief--it can be stated!)

 

[PoliticalChic]

Anarchists do not get the right to redefine the meaning of a word.

They ought to change their name to better reflect the form of government they want and getting the word ANARCHIST out of it would be a good move marketing-wise.

What you want is a kind of locally decentralized socialism, not anarchy.

Anarchism as a self-description has always involves "locally decentralized socialism" since Proudhon's declaration of anarchism in 1840. How does your misconception stand against 160 years of history?

Since you reference history, my friend, let's celebrate an anniversary that must be dear to your sensibilities:

On this day, in 1933, Walter Duranty reported in the NYTimes that “any report of a famine is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda” while 7 to 10 million Ukrainians were systematically starved to death on their own farms.

And, in the background, is that the Internationale that I hear?

 

[Agnapostate]

Poor Ukraine, suffering under Soviet oppression. If only the anarchists united behind Nestor Makhno and his Black Army had been successful in repelling the Red Army.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Poor Ukraine, suffering under Soviet oppression. If only the anarchists united behind Nestor Makhno and his Black Army had been successful in repelling the Red Army.

Don't you want to relive the fairy tale?

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ycp3xz_Muik&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ycp3xz_Muik&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[mascale]

So apparently, it is 2500 years or so of Greek usage, versus 160 years of Continental, European, thoroughly confusing usage!

That is probably to be expected, somehow!

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Seems that at minimum they might have followed up on the more quaint, American custom: Of sending the indigenous peoples off to reservations--unless that is what they were doing!)

 

[Agnapostate]

Don't you want to relive the fairy tale?

You're an example of the type of misinformed anti-socialist that I referred to in my OP. Despite the fact that I support an ideology that found itself opposed to every instance of Soviet intrusion and manifested itself in the form of a fiercely independent militia protecting a Ukrainian stateless society from such, you can't acknowledge such.

So apparently, it is 2500 years or so of Greek usage, versus 160 years of Continental, European, thoroughly confusing usage!

I'm simply acknowledging the point at which anarchism originated as a clearly definable ideology in 1840 and when the term was used as a self-description. There's little need to refer to William Godwin, and even less need to refer to Zeno, Bao Jingyan, Gerrard Winstanley, or anyone else. Those figures were forerunners.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Don't you want to relive the fairy tale?

You're an example of the type of misinformed anti-socialist that I referred to in my OP. Despite the fact that I support an ideology that found itself opposed to every instance of Soviet intrusion and manifested itself in the form of a fiercely independent militia protecting a Ukrainian stateless society from such, you can't acknowledge such.

So apparently, it is 2500 years or so of Greek usage, versus 160 years of Continental, European, thoroughly confusing usage!

I'm simply acknowledging the point at which anarchism originated as a clearly definable ideology in 1840 and when the term was used as a self-description. There's little need to refer to William Godwin, and even less need to refer to Zeno, Bao Jingyan, Gerrard Winstanley, or anyone else. Those figures were forerunners.

"misinformed anti-socialist "

I love that!

If you could get me a t-shirt with that appellation I would love to wear it!

You could wear the one with the pic of Walter Duranty!

 

[mascale]

The one fellow's co-opting of a forerunner epithet, erroneously, fails also to acknowledge that lots of people, around the world--before, (you seem to admit). and after: Have developed the more accurate concept--with the usual more accurate origins, in antiquity.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Americans, even, know precisely what "freedom" means, espcially in our laws!)

 

[Agnapostate]

"misinformed anti-socialist "

I love that!

If you could get me a t-shirt with that appellation I would love to wear it!

You could wear the one with the pic of Walter Duranty!

But I think we know who your true hero is, just as assuredly as the Politburo were mine.

The one fellow's co-opting of a forerunner epithet, erroneously, fails also to acknowledge that lots of people, around the world--before, (you seem to admit). and after: Have developed the more accurate concept--with the usual more accurate origins, in antiquity.

Except that he sought to use the term as a self-description where it had not been used before...and the epithet was used even for anti-monarchist republicans in France, so it had no widely accepted solid or definitive meaning.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"misinformed anti-socialist "

I love that!

If you could get me a t-shirt with that appellation I would love to wear it!

You could wear the one with the pic of Walter Duranty!

But I think we know who your true hero is, just as assuredly as the Politburo were mine.

The one fellow's co-opting of a forerunner epithet, erroneously, fails also to acknowledge that lots of people, around the world--before, (you seem to admit). and after: Have developed the more accurate concept--with the usual more accurate origins, in antiquity.

Except that he sought to use the term as a self-description where it had not been used before...and the epithet was used even for anti-monarchist republicans in France, so it had no widely accepted solid or definitive meaning.

Actually, my hero was the great Ronaldus Maximus.

And you should remember...

Communists have no class!

 

[Agnapostate]

Actually, my hero was the great Ronaldus Maximus.

I'm guessing he was in the SS?

 

[mascale]

So back again, anarchy had its original, ancient meaning--which had nothing to do with right-wing, nationalist, socialist, communes. The ancients knew what political authority was, and they knew an alternative. The Proudhon concept wasn't it, but the concept was in fact--wrongly applied by the people you cite.

You have to go back to The Diggers, and understand worldwide--that an anarchy is nowhere near on the horizon, then or now.

That is how wrong Proudhon was, and the rest of the fanatics you cite in the OP. An anarchy is worldwide. Proudhon is better regarded a precursor of elements of the Nazi agenda.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Odd that some people simply can't hold onto things as they are! The Colonies at one point, had a clear concept of what it meant to be, "free!")

 

[Agnapostate]

No, the development of a crude epithet doesn't rival the development of a nuanced political ideology in any way, shape, or form.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually, my hero was the great Ronaldus Maximus.

I'm guessing he was in the SS?

I'm not surprised that American history is not your strong suit.

Just to make it easy for you to find it when you Google, he was the 40th President of the United States of America.

You've heard of the United States? That's the country all the oppressed folks from your favorites tried to run to when the gates flew open.

Are you still there?

 

[Agnapostate]

Oh, that's right. The guy who participated in the undermining of democracy throughout Latin America; I remember now!

Luckily, our state has an even more inept actor as governor now, so our memories are gradually fading.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh, that's right. The guy who participated in the undermining of democracy throughout Latin America; I remember now!

Luckily, our state has an even more inept actor as governor now, so our memories are gradually fading.

Changing the subject must mean I'm not getting the t-shirt, so begone you politically illiterate shameless aggressor and psychopathological hooligan. Continue barking at the moon, you running dog lackey of your left-wing masters! Enough of your tedious pointless meandering thorough ancient socialist manifestos.

The misinformed anti-socialist.

Let me know if you change your mind.

 

[Agnapostate]

You're the one who changed the subject, though you apparently don't wish to discuss Elliot Abrams and Otto Reich.

However, you have no grasp of socialist political economy, or political economy in general. You're wildly flailing in the dark, which is why you committed the same basic and common fallacy that I described in the OP.