The American System

Navy1960

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Sep 4, 2008
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AMERICAN SYSTEM, a term invoked by Kentucky representative Henry Clay in his 30–31 March 1824 speech to Congress as part of his argument for a higher tariff. Clay, who went on to serve in the Senate and was the Whig Party presidential candidate in 1832 and 1844, believed the tariff would stimulate national manufacturing and agriculture by insulating the domestic market from foreign products. He based this approach at least in part on the economic strategy of the British, whose continued penetration into U.S. markets and protectionist policies against U.S. exports perpetuated a major trade imbalance between the two countries throughout the 1820s. Despite widespread resistance from antiprotectionists, who feared that high tariffs would prompt other countries to tax American exports, Congress in May 1824 narrowly approved a substantial raise in the rate.

The concept of the American System subsequently came to include a broader set of policies that Clay and his supporters propounded as the best means for strengthening the country's economy and restructuring the relationship between government and society. Clay's invocation of the term echoed the earlier economic nationalism of Alexander Hamilton who, in number 11 of the Federalist Papers in 1787, had also referred to an American System characterized by a powerful, activist federal government that would guarantee the sovereignty and prosperity of the United States. Clay's platform reflected a similar conviction that government intervention could stimulate domestic
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3401800181.html

As I listen to this debate over "socialism" and "capitalism" rage I thought it interesting for those who wished to see the concept of stimulating the economy is not a new one as well as direct intervention by the Govt. is not a new one. Further, protectionist measures such as taxes on foreign goods were not something totally unfamiler to the founders of this nation. In fact Adam Smiths book " the wealth of nations" did not come out till 1776 the same year our constitution was signed and as Adam Smith is considered the father of "capitalism" I thought that worthy of note as the word appears no where in the constitution and from my research it's very hard to find any connection between the Scottish Adam Smith and the the framers of the constitution. In fact at the time of our founding one can say this nations economic structure was based on a whole host of different schools of thoughts and men such as Karl Marx would have been unknown to them. So in short, perhaps when we toss around words, like one system is bad or this person is a socialist, or that person is a capitalist. it's worth noting that these two economic systems had little if anything to do with how our nations consitution was framed.
 
Forgive me for posting this in politics everyone, it should go in Economics., my apologies.
 
My heavens, who knew that Hamilton and J Q Adams and Webster and Clay were socialists!
 
laughs, I seriously doubt they would have even known what that word meant back then do you? but it is a rather eye opening insight into things at least in my humble opinion.
 
The 1st bank of the US was a joint government and commerce operation: 1/5th the directors and the $$$ was put up by the government.
 
I think Hamilton was more bent on National Government being the end all. He viewed Government more as Our Keepers, than Our Representatives. He saw Us more as Property, Commodities. I think He was actually the First Statist Progressive.

I think Tariff's were a good Idea in the First place. Had we stuck with them as the Federal Governments primary source of Income, Our Borders, Our Ports, would be Impenetrable and Secure. Our Markets better protected.

I prefer a Free Market to Monopoly and Conglomerate Control, with Government predetermining outcome, picking the winners and losers, too often arbitrarily. I prefer the Impartial Referee, maintaining fair play and the Integrity of the game. It's a corruption of Principle that effects everything around it. Statism preferred the Big Companies, with interest in National Reach and Centralized Control, rewarding them and showing favor, while penalizing Small Enterprise, and showing it disfavor. Each has it's place, each advantages and disadvantages. With all of the meddling, we forget that.
 
I think it can be said that in Hamilton's day a mix Mercantilism and local trading was the order of the day. The point of this was to show that using such words like "socialism" and "capitalism" for that matter and somehow trying to make the case that if one system or the other is unAmerican is a bit off the mark. Further, Federal Govt. stimulation of the economy is not something that President Obama invented nor is the advent of Federal help in building infrastructure. As for "Free Markets" I would venture to say that although they have been around since the inception of this nation, that those who crafted our nation were more interested in giving the power to the poeple to decide what sort of system they would prefer. I would submit to you, that if a state for example were to institute a complete so called "socialist" agenda, then if that did not conflict with the constitution and the voters of that state approved it, that state would be well within it's rights to do so. In my humble opinion I believe this is more what they had in mind. However, the point here is simply to point out that using one word of the other to denegrate someone based on what they may or may not believe is just incorrect and it is my humble belief that both elements of these types of economic systems have been with us since the founding of this nation even though they had no idea what "Capitalist meant" or for that matter "Socialist"
 
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I think it can be said that in Hamilton's day a mix Mercantilism and local trading was the order of the day. The point of this was to show that using such words like "socialism" and "capitalism" for that matter and somehow trying to make the case that if one system or the other is unAmerican is a bit off the mark. Further, Federal Govt. stimulation of the economy is not something that President Obama invented nor is the advent of Federal help in building infrastructure. As for "Free Markets" I would venture to say that although they have been around since the inception of this nation, that those who crafted our nation were more interested in giving the power to the poeple to decide what sort of system they would prefer. I would submit to you, that if a state for example were to institute a complete so called "socialist" agenda, then if that did not conflict with the constitution and the voters of that state approved it, that state would be well within it's rights to do so. In my humble opinion I believe this is more what they had in mind. However, the point here is simply to point out that using one word of the other to denegrate someone based on what they may or may not believe is just incorrect and it is my humble belief that both elements of these types of economic systems have been with us since the founding of this nation even though they had no idea what "Capitalist meant" or for that matter "Socialist"

Totally agree. From my perspective, the Total Operating Budget of Government is Socialist by definition, other than Royalties from Natural Resources and usage. Government gets it's cash flow from the consent of the governed, that and the Fines, Fee's, and Penalties which we all love. :) Yeah, there are Socialized Methods in Business too, and the expectations that go with them.

I think Small Enterprise has it's advantages and strengths too, and they should be better treated, as a whole. We get the short end way too often.
 
I think it can be said that in Hamilton's day a mix Mercantilism and local trading was the order of the day. The point of this was to show that using such words like "socialism" and "capitalism" for that matter and somehow trying to make the case that if one system or the other is unAmerican is a bit off the mark. Further, Federal Govt. stimulation of the economy is not something that President Obama invented nor is the advent of Federal help in building infrastructure. As for "Free Markets" I would venture to say that although they have been around since the inception of this nation, that those who crafted our nation were more interested in giving the power to the poeple to decide what sort of system they would prefer. I would submit to you, that if a state for example were to institute a complete so called "socialist" agenda, then if that did not conflict with the constitution and the voters of that state approved it, that state would be well within it's rights to do so. In my humble opinion I believe this is more what they had in mind. However, the point here is simply to point out that using one word of the other to denegrate someone based on what they may or may not believe is just incorrect and it is my humble belief that both elements of these types of economic systems have been with us since the founding of this nation even though they had no idea what "Capitalist meant" or for that matter "Socialist"

Totally agree. From my perspective, the Total Operating Budget of Government is Socialist by definition, other than Royalties from Natural Resources and usage. Government gets it's cash flow from the consent of the governed, that and the Fines, Fee's, and Penalties which we all love. :) Yeah, there are Socialized Methods in Business too, and the expectations that go with them.

I think Small Enterprise has it's advantages and strengths too, and they should be better treated, as a whole. We get the short end way too often.

Intense, one of the reason's why I always try to point out that the founders were a bit smarter than they sometimes are given credit for. In that, our Federal Govt. is there to provide an atmosphere for business here to thrive. If one chooses to call that socialist or capitalist then so be it, as long as in the end, America and it's citizens prosper.
 
Policies that might have worked for a 3rd rate country on the backside of nowhere in the 18th century don't translate well to a 21st century super power. Tariffs to "protect" domestic manufacture end up hurting those companies, which can't compete in the world market, as well as consumers, who pay higher prices for inferior goods.
 
I think Hamilton was more bent on National Government being the end all. He viewed Government more as Our Keepers, than Our Representatives. He saw Us more as Property, Commodities. I think He was actually the First Statist Progressive.

I think Tariff's were a good Idea in the First place. Had we stuck with them as the Federal Governments primary source of Income, Our Borders, Our Ports, would be Impenetrable and Secure. Our Markets better protected.

I prefer a Free Market to Monopoly and Conglomerate Control, with Government predetermining outcome, picking the winners and losers, too often arbitrarily. I prefer the Impartial Referee, maintaining fair play and the Integrity of the game. It's a corruption of Principle that effects everything around it. Statism preferred the Big Companies, with interest in National Reach and Centralized Control, rewarding them and showing favor, while penalizing Small Enterprise, and showing it disfavor. Each has it's place, each advantages and disadvantages. With all of the meddling, we forget that.

Tariffs are statism personified. The government is picking the winners, us, and the losers, them. In today's world tariffs would lead to the same global collapse we saw in thew 30s.
 
the constitution was not signed in 1776, the declaration of independance was.....
 
in response to:

"I thought that worthy of note as the word appears no where in the constitution and from my research it's very hard to find any connection between the Scottish Adam Smith and the the framers of the constitution."

jefferson was quite aware of adam smith and bought a copy of "wealth of nations" in 1784.....

here is a link to reviews jefferson gave of the book in his writing to others.....

http://www.librarything.com/work/12307/details/22336192

it is thought he had read the book prior to that thru a friends copy, but there is no concrete evidence of such........

they both shared the same roots in their believes with their studies of john locke, destutt de tracy, and ewell sale stewart .......
 
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the constitution was not signed in 1776, the declaration of independance was.....

My apologies , I was 2 years and 3 days off it was first signed in 1778 on July 9th however it does not change the premise when it applies to Adam Smith nor does it change the premise when it applies to Karl MArx. . The constitution was adopted on Sept. 17th 1787, your correct that the Declaration of Independance was signed in 1776.
 
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the constitution was not signed in 1776, the declaration of independance was.....

My apologies , I was 2 years and 3 days off it was first signed in 1778 on July 9th however it does not change the premise when it applies to Adam Smith nor does it change the premise when it applies to Karl MArx. . The constitution was adopted on Sept. 17th 1787, your correct that the Declaration of Independance was signed in 1776.

jefferson and smith were both influenced by the same people tho, so it is not unsual that they both had similar beliefs and views of economics........

i am nost sure smith even invented as much as codified many prior writing and views into one overview.......
 
in response to:

"I thought that worthy of note as the word appears no where in the constitution and from my research it's very hard to find any connection between the Scottish Adam Smith and the the framers of the constitution."

jefferson was quite aware of adam smith and bought a copy of "wealth of nations" in 1784.....

here is a link to reviews jefferson gave of the book in his writing to others.....

Details: An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith | LibraryThing

it is thought he had read the book prior to that thru a friends copy, but there is no concrete evidence of such........

they both shared the same roots in their believes with their studies of john locke, destutt de tracy, and ewell sale stewart .......

I am well aware that Jefferson bought a copy of Smiths book in France after the constituion was signed. Again, it does not change the premise that the framer's were unaware of Smiths book or the premise of "wealth of nations" at the time of its crafting. Further, I am also aware that John Locke's philosophy on natural rights can be seen throughout the constitution and the Declaration of Independence. My original premise is quite correct and the word "capitalism" does not not exist in the constitution and it can be debated as to if they even endorsed an economic system at all.
 
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in response to:

"I thought that worthy of note as the word appears no where in the constitution and from my research it's very hard to find any connection between the Scottish Adam Smith and the the framers of the constitution."

jefferson was quite aware of adam smith and bought a copy of "wealth of nations" in 1784.....

here is a link to reviews jefferson gave of the book in his writing to others.....

Details: An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith | LibraryThing

it is thought he had read the book prior to that thru a friends copy, but there is no concrete evidence of such........

they both shared the same roots in their believes with their studies of john locke, destutt de tracy, and ewell sale stewart .......

I am well aware that Jefferson bought a copy of Smiths book in France after the constituion was signed. Again, it does not change the premise that the framer's were unaware of Smiths book or the premise of "wealth of nations" at the time of its crafting. Further, I am also aware that John Locke's philosophy on natural rights can be seen throughout the constitution and the Declaration of Independence. My original premise is quite correct and the word "capitalism" does not not exist in the constitution and it can be debated as to if they even endorsed an economic system at all.

i am not sure the word "capitalism" was even invented at the time of the constitution.......

a quick wiki search shows that the first known usage of the word was in 1850.........

there were not many economic systems available at the time.. at least not in an applicable sense... even adam smiths writings were more theory than application......
 
in response to:

"I thought that worthy of note as the word appears no where in the constitution and from my research it's very hard to find any connection between the Scottish Adam Smith and the the framers of the constitution."

jefferson was quite aware of adam smith and bought a copy of "wealth of nations" in 1784.....

here is a link to reviews jefferson gave of the book in his writing to others.....

Details: An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith | LibraryThing

it is thought he had read the book prior to that thru a friends copy, but there is no concrete evidence of such........

they both shared the same roots in their believes with their studies of john locke, destutt de tracy, and ewell sale stewart .......

I am well aware that Jefferson bought a copy of Smiths book in France after the constituion was signed. Again, it does not change the premise that the framer's were unaware of Smiths book or the premise of "wealth of nations" at the time of its crafting. Further, I am also aware that John Locke's philosophy on natural rights can be seen throughout the constitution and the Declaration of Independence. My original premise is quite correct and the word "capitalism" does not not exist in the constitution and it can be debated as to if they even endorsed an economic system at all.

i am not sure the word "capitalism" was even invented at the time of the constitution.......

a quick wiki search shows that the first known usage of the word was in 1850.........

there were not many economic systems available at the time.. at least not in an applicable sense... even adam smiths writings were more theory than application......

Exactly my point, I am not advocating one economic system over another, what I am saying is this, that today many throw these two words at one another like they are both unAmerican, when the real story is much more complex and compelling than that. So to call one a "socialist" or " capitalist" and hint that for being so that person is somehow unAmerican seems a bit off the mark to me at least when our nation was founded by men of many different backgrounds. Granted, you had some like Hamilton and some like Madison but then again the concepts of a Federal Govt. doing such things as building roads, or stimulating the economy are not new ones. My posting was not intended by any means to be taken as a critique of Adam Smiths works, more so just to point out that to place one type of economic system on this natio based on its founding might be somewhat troubling.
 
Policies that might have worked for a 3rd rate country on the backside of nowhere in the 18th century don't translate well to a 21st century super power. Tariffs to "protect" domestic manufacture end up hurting those companies, which can't compete in the world market, as well as consumers, who pay higher prices for inferior goods.

The mission of the Commission is to (1) administer U.S. trade remedy laws within its mandate in a fair and objective manner; (2) provide the President, USTR, and Congress with independent analysis, information, and support on matters of tariffs, international trade, and U.S. competitiveness; and (3) maintain the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTS).
USITC - About the United States International Trade Commission

While that might be true Rabbi, more than a few of those policies exist even today. We still slap tariffs on goods and from time to time as was the case with "Tires" we slapped one on China for dumping here. In my humble opinion I believe we should do all we can to promote an atmosphere where people want to "buy American". While I don't believe that the Federal Govt. should punish companies, I do believe that they should not offer the same benefits to companies who prefer to call themselves American and don't employ Americans as they do companies that do employ Americans.
 
Why should the U.S. government promote one business over another? Let them fight it out in the marketplace.
 

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