The Aftermath of the Trial

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Wake, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    Did you actually watch the trial? You make statements that lead me to believe that you've made your mind up about this case based on the narrative that was put out by the Martin families attorney's leading up to the case...a narrative that the main stream media chose to go with rather than examining who these two people REALLY were and what the evidence indicated happened that night.

    Let's take the Zimmerman phone call...

    So much has been made that the dispatcher told George Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that." Somehow THAT indicates to you that Zimmerman was breaking the law in some way. Quite frankly that's an absurd conclusion and I'll tell you why.

    First of all the reason that Zimmerman may have gotten OUT of his SUV and attempted to follow Trayvon Martin is that same dispatcher had just asked him if he could see which way the suspicious teenager had run. It's at THAT point that Zimmerman exits his truck and tries to follow Martin. Is Zimmerman simply trying to do what the dispatcher is asking?

    Secondly, what is Zimmerman's response when the dispatcher realizes that he may be out of his vehicle and trying to run after the fleeing teen? The dispatcher says "We don't need you to do that." and Zimmerman responds with "OK". Not "He's getting away!" Not "I'm tired of these kids getting away!" No, Zimmerman replies "OK". Then he starts walking back to his SUV while trying to figure out where he's going to meet the Police.

    Thirdly, the admonition from the dispatcher isn't because he feels that Zimmerman is breaking any laws. The dispatcher said what he did out of concern for Zimmerman's safety because (and this is crucial!) the Police are scared to death of being liable if something happens to someone who is following their instructions.

    Now back to your question about what "I" would do if I were pursued by a stranger at night. First of all what I would NEVER do...is leave a safe area and return to a dangerous one. I don't think ANY rationale person would do that...yet that's EXACTLY what Trayvon Martin DID! When he ran from Zimmerman he was in the area of the townhouse he was staying at when Rachel Jenteal called him back...breathing hard from running away. That townhouse is over 120 yards from where the fight took place...that townhouse is over 120 yards away from the "creepy assed Cracker" that was following Trayvon! Yet somehow, Martin managed to end up Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back at the T of those sidewalks confronting George Zimmerman! So explain how that happens, Alter if Martin doesn't MAKE it happen?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  2. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    I could care less if Numan attacks "me" personally. If he disagrees with my points or thinks I'm an idiot then he should feel free to say so. What annoys me is that Numan has chosen the easy way out...the intellectually lazy way out...by attacking America as a whole as being terrorists and liars. He is quite frankly...a pompous asshole.
     
  3. Wake
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    Wake Easygoing Conservative

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    While I do like both of you, there is something we can do about this. Numan stated that Americans were never a particularly admirable lot. You can chip away at that piece he put on the board by posting each and every exceptional American throughout history, from George Washington Carver to John F. Kennedy. When he makes broad assertions like that, he makes himself vulnerable because now you can break down that faulty mental construct of his as much as you want, which would make it even harder for him to persuade others to believe his argument over yours. Give him a challenge by really putting him through his paces on logic and reason, making sure to catch him if/when he makes any of the various logical fallacies out there. Doing so gives your own positions more weight. Also, by not giving in and attacking him personally you show to everyone else that you, Mr. Oldstyle, has the cooler head. That, too, helps anyone in debate.

    You can make more of an impact by thoroughly destroying arguments, instead of attacking a person's character.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  4. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    Someone making the statement that Americans were not exceptional has already proven themselves to be ignorant of history. While America is becoming less and less exceptional with each passing year because of our dependence on a cradle to the grave Nanny State, it is still head and shoulders above most of the rest of the world.

    Trying to educate someone like Numan about that however would be a total waste of time. He'll simply reply that I'm an American "liar". That's his stock reply to all viewpoints he has no counter to.
     
  5. Wake
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    Wake Easygoing Conservative

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    No, I give Numan the benefit of the doubt, because I believe in him as well as you. I'll agree with you that America does seem to be becoming less exceptional because of the cradle-to-the-grave governmental effect. Maybe Numan would open his ears up a bit more to you (general you) if he wasn't getting called names or having his own ideas or personal affects ridiculed. It takes at least two to build a bridge (I think, considering the latest technology). :razz:

    There is a style and a way to winning people over. It must be genuine, and it takes an effort on your part to be nice to people. I'd really like to see you two hash it out on arguments and ideas alone, so that we can try to find out exactly what the ideological "cruxes" are that you two aren't able to agree on. Maybe we can work that out?
     
  6. Pop23
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    Pop23 Gold Member

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    Are you the pot or the kettle?
     
  7. PMZ
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    PMZ BANNED

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    Taking credit for an exceptional America. How's that for extremism.
     
  8. PMZ
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    PMZ BANNED

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    Exceptional America is easy to plot.

    The trajectory of almost every measure of progress under Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

    Another measure of the pride in America is the attitude towards America when our news came from Morrow, Swazy, Cronkite, the NYTimes, main stream media in general vs the constant America bashing of Fox News, Rush and his cronies, and right wing media sites, and, yes, the GOP.

    The assault on American exceptionalism is almost an entirely right wing attack on everything American. Including the right to walk the street unarmed.
     
  9. jon_berzerk
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    jon_berzerk Gold Member

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    exactly

    you have the hang of it
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. TheGreatGatsby
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    TheGreatGatsby Gold Member

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    How are we exceptional? The rest the world owns us and poverty is at all-time highs? I guess you bought the propaganda of your lords and masters.
     

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