The Advancing Society (outline)

[JBeukema]

A second-draft outline for a more in-depth analysis and explanation of some of the various matters we have discussed here. Any thoughts on organization or anything of import than I might have failed to include?


(tabs aren't preserved, apparently)

The Advancing Society


I – Historical Perspective
A – The Evolution of Man from Ape
B – The Emergence of the Races and their Cultures
C – The American Nation
i – Founding and early years
ii – The American People and Culture


II – The Degeneration of the American People and Nation
A- Physical
i – The Increase of obesity, myopia, and certain other ailments
ii – Why we have seen a decrease in the rates of certain illnesses (the existing use of such eugenic means as preimplantation genetic diagnosis, zygote selection, and selective abortions)
B - Social
i – Increasing rates of criminality
ii – Gratuitous sexuality and violence in pop culture
iii – The decline of the nuclear family

C – Economic
i – The decline of American manufacturing and scientific elitism
ii – Rising economic insecurity and inequality
iii – The disconnect between politicians and the elite versus the common man
iv – Measures of the decline: gdp, gnp, real income, et al
v – Betrayal of the working class by the unions


II – How to reverse the Degeneration: Regneration
A – Physical
i - Creating a culture of health
a – using Hollywood as a tool of propaganda to cast a negative light upon obesity, sloth, etc
b – replacing the radioactive spider, chemical-x, and other deus ex machina with active self-improvement
c – what we can learn from the Greek example
ii – Combating disease and improving Man's physical form
a – preimplantation genetic diagnosis
b – gene therapy
c - nootropes
d – encouraging pride in the growth growth of healthy families
1 – lessons form the Fitter Families contests
e – encouraging the self-limitation of the less fit
iii – protecting against abuse of the system by racist elements: what we can learn from
past misdeeds
iv – protecting against abuse by other contra-selective and misguided elements:
a- the Chinese example


B – Forging a Better Society
i – the necessity of the Citizens' pride in his society
ii – the new Ethics and the new Philosophy
iii – the new law and a more perfect governance: the new Social Democracy


C- Building a New Economy
i – the role of protectionism and of trade
ii – the role of workplace democracy
iii – capitalism and the public good
iv – the role of the State: proper regulation


III – The Dual nature of the Task Before us
A – the new Man can only thrive in the new society
B – the new society can only be built and maintained by the new man


V – A Way to a New World: the Path of the Advancing Society
A- the Birth of the Man
i – the rejection of the myth of equality; embracing excellence
ii – the adoption of the New Philosophy and the New Ethic
ii – Overcoming the limits of human nature and social conditioning
B – Social
i - The New Social Paradigm and its implication
a- a culture of fitness and of compassion
b – redefining all Man as family

ii- redefining the role of the State and combating authoritarian 'progressivism'
a- the rejection of Liberalism and old socialism
b- shaping the new Law

C – Economic
i – restoring American excellence and elitism
ii – the necessity of energy and economic independence for the preservation of sovereignty and security
iii – strengthening the working class
iv – combating economic insecurity and creating more egalitarian market

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A second-draft outline for a more in-depth analysis and explanation of some of the various matters we have discussed here. Any thoughts on organization or anything of import than I might have failed to include?


(tabs aren't preserved, apparently)

The Advancing Society


I – Historical Perspective
A – The Evolution of Man from Ape

You do know that you have just conclusively proved that you are totally ignorant, don't you?

Man did not evolve from ape.

 

[JBeukema]

1) Humans are Apes, dude. In fact, we're great apes. Seeing as there are other species belonging to the same family, it follows that our common ancestor was also an ape.

Scientific classification Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Suborder: Haplorrhini
Infraorder: Simiiformes
Parvorder: Catarrhini
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae

2) Common usage; this is not a scientific article. There's no point getting into Latin scientific designations in an outline.

Not only did we evolve from an ape (or rather, from a population of apes)- we're still apes. Once again, I offer you the friendly advise to not run your mouth when you don't have a clue regarding the subject matter.


here:
Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hominidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Flopper]

I'm sure you must have put a lot of thought into this, but really seems like a waste of time.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1) Humans are Apes, dude. In fact, we're great apes. Seeing as there are other species belonging to the same family, it follows that our common ancestor was also an ape.

Scientific classification Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Suborder: Haplorrhini
Infraorder: Simiiformes
Parvorder: Catarrhini
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae

2) Common usage; this is not a scientific article. There's no point getting into Latin scientific designations in an outline.

Not only did we evolve from an ape (or rather, from a population of apes)- we're still apes. Once again, I offer you the friendly advise to not run your mouth when you don't have a clue regarding the subject matter.


here:
Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hominidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No idiot, as you just proved in your post, humans are hominids, not apes.

Not only did we not evolve from apes, but no one in the scientific community even says that, which you would know if you stopped reading books about eugenics.

The truth is that apes are as fully evolved as humans, just along a different path. Current theory is that we shared a common ancestor about 6 to 8 million years ago. There is some evidence that this timeline may not be accurate, but that would just push the divergence back a few million years.

This common ancestor is often described as ape-like, but that does not make it an ape.

Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn't evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.

Evolution: Frequently Asked Questions

 

[JBeukema]

humans are hominids, not apes.

The Hominidae (anglicized hominids, also known as great apeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae#cite_note-1) form a taxonomic family, including four extant genera: chimpanzees, gorillas, humans, and orangutans.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae#cite_note-MSW3-0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

An ape is any member of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, including humans. Due to its ambiguous nature, the term ape has been deemphasized in favor of Hominoidea as a means of describing taxonomic relationships.

Ape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're trying oh-so-hard to win at your silly semantic games. it's sad, really.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

humans are hominids, not apes.

The Hominidae (anglicized hominids, also known as great apes) form a taxonomic family, including four extant genera: chimpanzees, gorillas, humans, and orangutans.

Hominidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An ape is any member of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, including humans. Due to its ambiguous nature, the term ape has been deemphasized in favor of Hominoidea as a means of describing taxonomic relationships.

Ape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're trying oh-so-hard to win at your silly semantic games. it's sad, really.

Which actually proves I am right. Humans are hominids, not apes, because hominid is the preferred scientific term.

I also notice that you must have been forced to admit in your little mind that I was right that humans did not evolve from apes.

 

[JBeukema]

'Humans are hominids, not apes, because hominid is the preferred scientific term.'




'Humans are mammalia, not mammals... humans are animalia, not animals... humans are chordates, not vertebrates...'

 

[Quantum Windbag]

'Humans are hominids, not apes, because hominid is the preferred scientific term.'




'Humans are mammalia, not mammals... humans are animalia, not animals... humans are chordates, not vertebrates...'

Actually, the preferred scientific term is homindae. The word ape is the problem here, because it is ambiguous. Ape is often applied to various primates that are not apes or did that little detail escape you attempt to prove that I am being nit picky?

 

[JBeukema]

...did that little detail escape you attempt to prove that I am being nit picky?

If you're going to play sad semantic games to avoid the facts, you could at least learn how to formulate a sentence.

 

[Polaris]

A second-draft outline for a more in-depth analysis and explanation of some of the various matters we have discussed here. Any thoughts on organization or anything of import than I might have failed to include?


(tabs aren't preserved, apparently)

The Advancing Society


I – Historical Perspective
A – The Evolution of Man from Ape
B – The Emergence of the Races and their Cultures
C – The American Nation
i – Founding and early years
ii – The American People and Culture


II – The Degeneration of the American People and Nation
A- Physical
i – The Increase of obesity, myopia, and certain other ailments
ii – Why we have seen a decrease in the rates of certain illnesses (the existing use of such eugenic means as preimplantation genetic diagnosis, zygote selection, and selective abortions)
B - Social
i – Increasing rates of criminality
ii – Gratuitous sexuality and violence in pop culture
iii – The decline of the nuclear family

C – Economic
i – The decline of American manufacturing and scientific elitism
ii – Rising economic insecurity and inequality
iii – The disconnect between politicians and the elite versus the common man
iv – Measures of the decline: gdp, gnp, real income, et al
v – Betrayal of the working class by the unions


II – How to reverse the Degeneration: Regneration
A – Physical
i - Creating a culture of health
a – using Hollywood as a tool of propaganda to cast a negative light upon obesity, sloth, etc
b – replacing the radioactive spider, chemical-x, and other deus ex machina with active self-improvement
c – what we can learn from the Greek example
ii – Combating disease and improving Man's physical form
a – preimplantation genetic diagnosis
b – gene therapy
c - nootropes
d – encouraging pride in the growth growth of healthy families
1 – lessons form the Fitter Families contests
e – encouraging the self-limitation of the less fit
iii – protecting against abuse of the system by racist elements: what we can learn from
past misdeeds
iv – protecting against abuse by other contra-selective and misguided elements:
a- the Chinese example


B – Forging a Better Society
i – the necessity of the Citizens' pride in his society
ii – the new Ethics and the new Philosophy
iii – the new law and a more perfect governance: the new Social Democracy


C- Building a New Economy
i – the role of protectionism and of trade
ii – the role of workplace democracy
iii – capitalism and the public good
iv – the role of the State: proper regulation


III – The Dual nature of the Task Before us
A – the new Man can only thrive in the new society
B – the new society can only be built and maintained by the new man


V – A Way to a New World: the Path of the Advancing Society
A- the Birth of the Man
i – the rejection of the myth of equality; embracing excellence
ii – the adoption of the New Philosophy and the New Ethic
ii – Overcoming the limits of human nature and social conditioning
B – Social
i - The New Social Paradigm and its implication
a- a culture of fitness and of compassion
b – redefining all Man as family

ii- redefining the role of the State and combating authoritarian 'progressivism'
a- the rejection of Liberalism and old socialism
b- shaping the new Law

C – Economic
i – restoring American excellence and elitism
ii – the necessity of energy and economic independence for the preservation of sovereignty and security
iii – strengthening the working class
iv – combating economic insecurity and creating more egalitarian market

Man, this is creepy. As a stauch lib, I'm all for benign paternalism; but JB, this isn't it. You know what this outline looks like - it really sounds like the vision a contemporary Chinese might have for a utopia. To me, it just sounds alien and threatening. Violence and a titantic intolerance lurks under every corner of this outline...

 

[JBeukema]

Violence? intolerance? What are you talking about?

See II, A, iii - iv

 

[Polaris]

Violence? intolerance? What are you talking about?

See II, A, iii - iv

Yeah, I didn't miss that proviso tucked in with all the rest of your grand plan. Really assuring that you've carved out official space for tolerance and "the prevention of abuses." It all reads like it's from the pen of an Enlightenment utopian who did a rip van winkle and skipped the French and Russian revolutions. Again - just like a Chinese who doesn't have any frame of reference for the dystopias in Western memory, who is super-enthusiastic for order and progress and who has no conception of the dark side of his plans...

 

[JBeukema]

Several flaws with your comparisons:

1) three is nothing 'official' in broad social prgoress

2) I never promised utopia

3) it is the Liberals who glorify the French revolution. I am not a Liberal. My rejection of Liberalism is well-documented here.

4) China is an authoritarian state, not wholly unlike that of the 'progressives' in this nation- another thing I have repeatedly rejected on record

5) many of the eugenic means you seem so afraid of, such as PID, selective abortion, and genetic counseling, are already in wide use in this nation- the effects have been rather positive overall

 

[Polaris]

Several flaws with your comparisons:

1) three is nothing 'official' in broad social prgoress

Your whole outline belies that claim.

2) I never promised utopia

A utopian agenda is the (screaming) subtext of your whole outline.

3) it is the Liberals who glorify the French revolution. I am not a Liberal. My rejection of Liberalism is well-documented here.

You don't know your history. Liberals do not "glorify" the French revolution. I am thankful to hear you say that you have rejected liberalism. I shudder to think that you are advancing your whole programme in the name of liberalism.

4) China is an authoritarian state, not wholly unlike that of the 'progressives' in this nation- another thing I have repeatedly rejected on record

Your outline is nothing but a prescription for a total state. I find it astonishing that you don't realize this.

5) many of the eugenic means you seem so afraid of, such as PID, selective abortion, and genetic counseling, are already in wide use in this nation- the effects have been rather positive overall

The fact that they are employed, says nothing about their ultimate moral legitimacy.

What sets off alarm bells about your plans, is not necessarily any specific part of your agenda, but the format and framework in which you've presented them: this outline of yours. It telegraphs something fundamentally totalitarian about your worldview.

Like I said, I'm just glad you disavow liberalism. For me it's just further confirmation that the liberals are the good guys.

 

[JBeukema]

You don't know your history. Liberals do not "glorify" the French revolution

The French revolution is a hallmark of Liberal propaganda- a glorious mark of their success

The fact that they are employed, says nothing about their ultimate moral legitimacy.

Do I not have a moral obligation to care for my child, to use the means available to see my child born well, fed well, clothed well?

The liberals are the good guys? Ha! Bourgeois liberalism leads only to the suffering of the common man. That's why the State was tasked with enacting and enforcing such regulations as to protect the health and welfare of the people- you know, the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, OSHA, workplace safety regulation...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Several flaws with your comparisons:

1) three is nothing 'official' in broad social prgoress

Your whole outline belies that claim.

2) I never promised utopia

A utopian agenda is the (screaming) subtext of your whole outline.



You don't know your history. Liberals do not "glorify" the French revolution. I am thankful to hear you say that you have rejected liberalism. I shudder to think that you are advancing your whole programme in the name of liberalism.

4) China is an authoritarian state, not wholly unlike that of the 'progressives' in this nation- another thing I have repeatedly rejected on record

Your outline is nothing but a prescription for a total state. I find it astonishing that you don't realize this.

5) many of the eugenic means you seem so afraid of, such as PID, selective abortion, and genetic counseling, are already in wide use in this nation- the effects have been rather positive overall

The fact that they are employed, says nothing about their ultimate moral legitimacy.

What sets off alarm bells about your plans, is not necessarily any specific part of your agenda, but the format and framework in which you've presented them: this outline of yours. It telegraphs something fundamentally totalitarian about your worldview.

Like I said, I'm just glad you disavow liberalism. For me it's just further confirmation that the liberals are the good guys.

He tends to have a problem with the overall picture. He thinks that because the little things sound good to him, the whole thing must be right, and is willing to ignore history, science, and even the fact that both liberals and conservatives unite in calling him out on his fancy. Think back to your attitude when you were a know it all teenager and you will understand where he is coming from.

 

[JBeukema]

That's funny, coming from my little stalker who insists he's debunked the entire field of sociobiology and a number of scientific papers, yet can't produce a single record of his published articles, Nobel prizes, or other records of these accomplishments.

I noticed you disappeared from the thread when I asked you to link to your papers.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's funny, coming from my little stalker who insists he's debunked the entire field of sociobiology and a number of scientific papers, yet can't produce a single record of his published articles, Nobel prizes, or other records of these accomplishments.

I noticed you disappeared from the thread when I asked you to link to your papers.

Where did I ever make that claim? I always point out to you that eugenics is not a science, and then you run around pointing that all sorts of things are science. The weird part is that you seem to believe that this proves that eugenics is also a science.

 

[JBeukema]

Eugenics, like the extinguishing of a fire or the manufacturing of modern aircraft, is the application of science towards a goal.

You claimed Sociobiology wasn't science and that you'd debunked evolutionary psychology. You failed to ever back that claim.