The 5th column

[NewGuy]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=76025#post76025

-A proper place for the new topic.

 

[NewGuy]

I put it into the other thread:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=76025#post76025

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by deaddude


Now I'll accept that the war in Iraq was eventualy neccesary, if only to remove a Stalinisitc dictator, however, it wasnt the most opportune time for it to happen. Perhaps after a few more months of Saddam Interfereing with inspections would have won over more international support. The United States already has anough enemies, we dont need to antagonize Europe and the entire Middle East as well.

dead dude ,
Investigations are going on at the UN about bribes paid to various UN people and others in different countries by Saddam.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/oil_for_food_ripoff_040420-1.html

It is well documented that Germany , Russia , and France had contracts with Saddam for billions . Do you actually believe they would blow off this money to side with the US to get rid of Saddam when they were in bed with him? It was in these countries interest to allow him to stay in power , he owed billions to each and they had contracts for billions in anticipation of the sanctions being dropped . The only way to have recieved the go ahead from these so called allies would have been to pay them off ...big.

I don't know if you are old enough to be aware of what Saddam did in 91 as he retreated from Kuwait . I have provided a link below that details the damage that was done when Saddam ordered the destruction of the Kuwaiti oil fields and production facilities . It is estimated that at least 600 -700 oil wells were sabatoged by Iraqis running from the coalition(American). Some caught on fire others didn't . An estimate of 4-6 million barrels of crude per day was lost . This continued for months as the fires were slowly put out . The wells that were on fire created a black cloud that blocked the sun and produced extreme air pollution . The wells that just blew out without the fire sent lakes of oil down dry creek beds to the gulf , they also put out deadly hydrogen sulfide gas . The cost to repair was in the billions , the cost to the environment was not calculatable . For this alone that piece of shit should be strung up .

http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960702/70076_01.htm

Saddam also drained the marshlands of southern Iraq . He was punishing rebelious marsh arab tribes who had worked the marshes for thousands of years . These marshes were 3500 square miles inbetween the Tigris and Euphrates rivers , theologians claim this to be The Garden of Eden . The United States is trying to bring theses Marshes back now but the damage is enormous including the scattering of the people that lived there .
This guy was an environmental disaster , he needed to go for the good of mankind .
If that isn't enough , he tried to assassinate a former US President . He also took the money made by the "oil for Food " program and pocketed billions for himself and then built lavish Palace complexes with the rest ,35 of them(gold toilets and all)! Meanwhile his people starved , kids died , and the "Blame America First Crowd" claimed it was America that was responsible for these deaths.
This is just a few of the things that Saddam has done to cause us to act when we did , he is a pile of camel shit and needed to go . The fact that he was also in possession of Bio and Chemical weapons and an active nuke program made it even more vital that we take him out . There was no negotiations with this maniacal , habitual liar .







http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960702/70076_01.htm

 

[deaddude]

Reminds me of (and I know Im going to spell this wrong) Chauchesku. He sold the Romainian natural gas and made billions while his people froze to death.

One difference though, it was the Romanians who captured & killed Chauchesku.

 

[Avatar4321]

Does anyone really believe that France Germany and Russia would have joined us in Iraq after a few more months of inspectors? They were profiting off Saddams Regime. They didnt want change. And we have been having problems with him for the 12 years before the war. How is 3 more months going to suddenly change the obstinate European countries who were taking money from Saddam?

Also i always wondered at how the libs could demand we give the UN weapons inspecters more time even years to finishing looking before the war but after the war we need to have the WMD immediately! It makes no sense and is totally inconsistant.

 

[sitarro]

I was looking at an aviation magazine last night at the bookstore . The magazine caters to aviation enthusiasts and looks for aircraft around the world that can be saved from destruction and rebuilt for museums . The had a small article on the MIG 25 Foxbat that was unearthed in the desert of Iraq . They claimed that it was updated for reconaissance with advanced , state of the art , French and Russian equipment and it was a valuable find for the America military.They indicated this equipment was very current and wasn't in existence in the early 90s . They reported that there were at least 2 dozen fighters buried in that same location. They also said that the task of finding hidden weapons in this vast desert was almost impossible without the help they recieved from a local that told the coalition about the MIGS . These planes weren't buried in sand , they were well prepared , camouflaged and buried in hardpacked dirt .
If Saddam was willing to go to this much trouble to hide some MIGS , what would he do to hide weapons that would force the UN to do something about him . As long as they aren't found he embarrasses the Americans in the eyes of the world , Saddam certainly didn't count on Bush to go against all of the countries that Iraq had been doing business with and paying to keep the UN out . He was used to that silly skirt chaser that was in the White House before , hell , I wouldn't doubt he was being bribed by Saddam also .

 

[insein]

Originally posted by sitarro
I was looking at an aviation magazine last night at the bookstore . The magazine caters to aviation enthusiasts and looks for aircraft around the world that can be saved from destruction and rebuilt for museums . The had a small article on the MIG 25 Foxbat that was unearthed in the desert of Iraq . They claimed that it was updated for reconaissance with advanced , state of the art , French and Russian equipment and it was a valuable find for the America military.They indicated this equipment was very current and wasn't in existence in the early 90s . They reported that there were at least 2 dozen fighters buried in that same location. They also said that the task of finding hidden weapons in this vast desert was almost impossible without the help they recieved from a local that told the coalition about the MIGS . These planes weren't buried in sand , they were well prepared , camouflaged and buried in hardpacked dirt .
If Saddam was willing to go to this much trouble to hide some MIGS , what would he do to hide weapons that would force the UN to do something about him . As long as they aren't found he embarrasses the Americans in the eyes of the world , Saddam certainly didn't count on Bush to go against all of the countries that Iraq had been doing business with and paying to keep the UN out . He was used to that silly skirt chaser that was in the White House before , hell , I wouldn't doubt he was being bribed by Saddam also .

If it wasn't for the liberals leadership in this country, France Russia and Germany would have much more of a microscope on top of them right now. Unfortunately there isnt even an inkling of this treachery from our liberal media or any of the Leading Democrats in office. If Republicans even mention the subject they are seen as liars and at fault for the war in Iraq. Baseless accusations, lies and slander all from our own country that are keeping the French, Germans and Russians from receiving any real criticism.

 

[Annie]

There are more and more things coming out on WMD and the tangled web of UN and terrorism:

http://reviewappeal.midsouthnews.com/news.ez?viewStory=21379

http://www.gainesvilleregister.com/articles/2004/04/30/news/news1.txt

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/27/164917.shtml


Even Kerry hears the drumbeat:

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0401/043004-wmd.htm

 

[deaddude]

"Does anyone really believe that France Germany and Russia would have joined us in Iraq after a few more months of inspectors? They were profiting off Saddams Regime. They didnt want change. And we have been having problems with him for the 12 years before the war. How is 3 more months going to suddenly change the obstinate European countries who were taking money from Saddam?"

No I dont believe they would have joined us, but if we had taken those few months and Saddam had continued interfereing with the inseptions we might have been in a better position to argue for war and they (France et al.) would have been in a worse position to argue against us.

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by deaddude

No I dont believe they would have joined us, but if we had taken those few months and Saddam had continued interfereing with the inseptions we might have been in a better position to argue for war and they (France et al.) would have been in a worse position to argue against us.

Hey Deaddude ,
I know you are young and in school so therefore you're surrounded by plenty of dumbass influence but unlike your instructors most of us on this board work in the real world . We don't have the luxury of having a"sure thing" tenured position at some university where are biggest decision is what kind of bullshit we can feed our students today.I went to college and I can count on half of a hand how many instructors I experienced that really had a clue about anything .
All of your positions so far have been the same popular anti U.S. crap found on any campus around this country . Europe is not are friend , they are our competition , what do you think the EU is about . They have been living with terrorism for so long that they just accept it as a common occurence , that's why there were so many stupid comments from them after September eleventh . I'm sure there was a collective "yes !" when it happened to us . Sure there was sympathy from some but I guarantee that business people are overjoyed when anything negative happens to us . The fact is , most of the U.S. is European descent and came to this country and built it from scratch and in a little over 200 years have the best country in the world , They hate that . My best friend is from France and is constantly saying the same crap that you see on message boards from Euros . We have no culture ,we don't speak anything but English , our education system is awful compared to theirs , we are spoiled , we pay too little for gas , we drive big cars , our technology is behind theirs , etc. ,etc. , blah , blah . I of course remind him where he and his wife decided to live and point out how full of shit he and his former country is . That is one of the reasons besides the economic ones that France and Germany can't agree with anything we do , we are their successful little brother and they are jealous. Russia has even more problems with us . For years we were mortal enemies and yet we have bent over backwards to help them with food , money , and technology , how can they possibly support us ? What all of them see is that they had gone against UN sanctions and had been dealing heavily with Saddam , billions were at stake , and those damn Americans decided to screw that up by taking their business partner out , You are naive to think that a few more months would have made any difference . After all , that anti American dildo Hans Blix was running the inspections , he wreaks of an attitude of superiority over our country and administration , what would be in it for him or Europe in general to prove President Bush right by finding the weapons that they all said at one time Saddam had . It is much better to embarrass the U.S. and prove us wrong now that we have taken the lead in the fight against the terrorist they have accepted for so long .
These are all things that you should be learning in school , you have to wonder why your instructors don't teach it .

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by deaddude
No I dont believe they would have joined us, but if we had taken those few months and Saddam had continued interfereing with the inseptions we might have been in a better position to argue for war and they (France et al.) would have been in a worse position to argue against us.

So 12 years wasnt a good enough position. 12 years and 5 months would have been better?

If we had waited longer than we have, Saddam and the terrible two could have slaughtered, raped, tortured, and maimed thousands of more Iraqis. we waited too long as it was.