The 501c3 designation is what has destroyed the church

[Paulie]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

 

[DOTR]

I agree.

 

[MeBelle]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

 

[progressive hunter]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

 

[Paulie]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

Sounds very anti first amendment does it not?

 

[harmonica]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

 

[G.T.]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

Sounds very anti first amendment does it not?

It's precedent. Something in exchange for something, and they're doing so voluntarily. Seems pretty innocuous. Unless a person goes to Church for someone to preach partisan politics to them...which seems kinda bizarre to even want

 

[G.T.]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

It's not a violation when they're doing so voluntarily. I couldn't possibly... even begin to understand why that little nuance would be confusing to anyone.

 

[progressive hunter]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

It's not a violation when they're doing so voluntarily. I couldn't possibly... even begin to understand why that little nuance would be confusing to anyone.

doing what voluntarily??

 

[Bob Blaylock]

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

With government having the power to determine what constitutes “politics”.

A certain failed Presidential candidate expressed an intent, should he be elected, to extend “politics” to churches that teach against certain forms of immoral sexual behavior, and on that basis, to deny them tax exempt status.

 

[Paulie]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

 

[G.T.]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

It's not a violation when they're doing so voluntarily. I couldn't possibly... even begin to understand why that little nuance would be confusing to anyone.

doing what voluntarily??

They are voluntarily taking a tax exemption in exchange for not being political in their speech. The entire pact, and that it's completely voluntarily, makes that particular 1st amendment right a non-sequitur.

You can waive your own rights, like your right to a fair trial, your right to privacy, your right to free speech, etc etc etc - - when it's voluntary. That's never been an issue, or the point.

 

[Paulie]

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

With government having the power to determine what constitutes “politics”.

A certain failed Presidential candidate expressed an intent, should be be elected, to extend “politics” to churches that teach against certain forms of immoral sexual behavior, and on that basis, to deny them tax exempt status.

You’re missing the point. The point is that they should ALL be tax-free with literally nothing owed in return for it.

 

[progressive hunter]

...a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service...

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

It's not a violation when they're doing so voluntarily. I couldn't possibly... even begin to understand why that little nuance would be confusing to anyone.

doing what voluntarily??

They are voluntarily taking a tax exemption in exchange for not being political in their speech. The entire pact, and that it's completely voluntarily, makes that particular 1st amendment right a non-sequitur.

You can waive your own rights, like your right to a fair trial, your right to privacy, your right to free speech, etc etc etc - - when it's voluntary. That's never been an issue, or the point.

the 1st doesnt say a thing about you or me,,,its about what the government cant do,,,and a 501c3 violates that ,,

not sure why some cant see that little nuance,,,

 

[G.T.]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

"Shouldn't be taxed simply because they shouldn't be taxed" is where your confusion is. They're not special, if I have to pay property tax then so should they and if they're going to be exempt, thus raising MY tax bill - then there's got to be some incentive on the part of the tax-payer as well.

They're not elected representatives with any right to use my money for partisan politics. That's pretty straight forward.

 

[G.T.]

"Can't preach politics from the pulpit"

is the only thing churches are prohibited from doing in order to attain and keep their 501c3

thats a violation of the 1st amendment,,,

churchs dont need permission to have a church,,so the 501c3 is also a violation of the 1st A

It's not a violation when they're doing so voluntarily. I couldn't possibly... even begin to understand why that little nuance would be confusing to anyone.

doing what voluntarily??

They are voluntarily taking a tax exemption in exchange for not being political in their speech. The entire pact, and that it's completely voluntarily, makes that particular 1st amendment right a non-sequitur.

You can waive your own rights, like your right to a fair trial, your right to privacy, your right to free speech, etc etc etc - - when it's voluntary. That's never been an issue, or the point.

the 1st doesnt say a thing about you or me,,,its about what the government cant do,,,and a 501c3 violates that ,,

not sure why some cant see that little nuance,,,

No, the 501c3 is not an imposition, it is a voluntary contract. That means there's no violation of rights, because anyone is free to forfeit a right if they so choose.

 

[harmonica]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

......ok--sure--but in reality, they are going to say anything they want ..Rev Wright said all kinds of racists/white-America Hating crap....what are they going to do ?= send the CIA/FBI to check on the sermons?

 

[Paulie]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

Shouldn't be taxed simply because they shouldn't be taxed is where your confusion is. They're not special, if I have to pay property tax then so should they and if they're going to be exempt, thus raising MY tax bill - then there's got to be some incentive on the part of the tax-payer as well.

They're not elected representatives with any right to use my money for partisan politics. That's pretty straight forward.

You don’t know me well, apparently. I don’t want ANYONE being taxed. Taxation is theft, plain and simple.

 

[Paulie]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

......ok--sure--but in reality, they are going to say anything they want ..Rev Wright said all kinds of racists/white-America Hating crap....what are they going to do ?= send the CIA/FBI to check on the sermons?

If you’re spewing anti American leftist vitriol then you get the free pass. Try finding a 501c3 that openly supports trump, though.

 

[G.T.]

When a church takes the 501c3 non profit designation it becomes beholden to the state. It is for all intents and purposes a bribe that was accepted in exchange for the church operating to specifics such as what they can and can’t say as part of their service.

“God’s Law, given to Moses for the people of Israel, forbade the taking of a bribe, “for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous” (Exodus 23:8). The same rule is repeated in Deuteronomy 16:19: “You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.”

You can look your church up through the IRS’s search portal for 501c3 designated churches. If your church happens to be one, I suggest you switch. I know that’s going to be difficult to do because of the way human patterns and behavior work but it’s something to consider.

..the bible is irrelevant to it .....if they are helping people without profit , fine--no tax

You’re missing the point. You all are. None of the churches should be taxed simply because they shouldn’t be taxed, not because they owe something in return for this gift. The government bribed the church with a tax free designation and they accepted it, and in exchange gave up a certain part of their right to free speech. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Why would you want to go to a church that literally can’t say certain things the government says they can’t?

Shouldn't be taxed simply because they shouldn't be taxed is where your confusion is. They're not special, if I have to pay property tax then so should they and if they're going to be exempt, thus raising MY tax bill - then there's got to be some incentive on the part of the tax-payer as well.

They're not elected representatives with any right to use my money for partisan politics. That's pretty straight forward.

You don’t know me well, apparently. I don’t want ANYONE being taxed. Taxation is theft, plain and simple.

So it's a great argument to say "hey, in particular the church shouldn't be taxed and therefore...their tax exemption shouldn't come with any stipulations?"

As opposed to making a thread about not taxing anyone period?

There's a word for that.

Once everyone's exempt, and then the church is somehow singled out for speech constraints after THAT, you'd have some sort of an argument here.