The 36-hour work week/3-day weekend

[Andylusion]

........Unions. You can't just use sweat shops anymore kiddo. Sorry.

36 reasons why you should thank a union

Perhaps this will give you some insight into unions CONTROLLED BY THE PEOPLE. Unions can get out of control just like the government CONTROLLED BY THE PEOPLE. (Well, not as much after Citizens United)

Yeah, I remember working with people who had 3 different jobs, because thanks to Unions, they were unable to work more hours at one single job. That's not a plus. That's a negative.

 

[AntiParty]

Yeah, I remember working with people who had 3 different jobs, because thanks to Unions, they were unable to work more hours at one single job. That's not a plus. That's a negative.

Your education of unions is minimal and possibly zero.

Unions like Government can get out of control when unchecked. If this situation you speak of actually happened it was probably in the last few months and it's not surprising that you remember it...

The attack on Unions and Corporations and Government are all EQUAL. All have abused their systems because the small minds in America have let them. The instant people end the bias in their brain they will start to learn more about all things politics related.

Unions, Corporations and Government have all done good things and are all necessary in America. Abuse should be what the people are looking for..............To counter, I'd like you to post a thread about America without one of the three.

If you don't allow people to unite, "United We Stand" is gone and the single person with the $$ owns you.

 

[Andylusion]

Unions like Government can get out of control when unchecked. If this situation you speak of actually happened it was probably in the last few months and it's not surprising that you remember it...

The attack on Unions and Corporations and Government are all EQUAL. All have abused their systems because the small minds in America have let them. The instant people end the bias in their brain they will start to learn more about all things politics related.

Unions, Corporations and Government have all done good things and are all necessary in America. Abuse should be what the people are looking for..............To counter, I'd like you to post a thread about America without one of the three.

If you don't allow people to unite, "United We Stand" is gone and the single person with the $$ owns you.

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

 

[dblack]

If you don't allow people to unite, "United We Stand" is gone and the single person with the $$ owns you.

This is the predominant ethos of corporatism.

 

[beagle9]

Yo

Unions like Government can get out of control when unchecked. If this situation you speak of actually happened it was probably in the last few months and it's not surprising that you remember it...

The attack on Unions and Corporations and Government are all EQUAL. All have abused their systems because the small minds in America have let them. The instant people end the bias in their brain they will start to learn more about all things politics related.

Unions, Corporations and Government have all done good things and are all necessary in America. Abuse should be what the people are looking for..............To counter, I'd like you to post a thread about America without one of the three.

If you don't allow people to unite, "United We Stand" is gone and the single person with the $$ owns you.

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

We speak in ways that illustrate the situation or the characters talked about best. Why you may ask ? It's because knowing a man's character first is the most important thing, then you will understand and know his actions afterwards. Sometimes companies understand that if they can keep their people economically dependent, then they can keep them from being able to make a move without it being devastating on them (the employee) for doing so if need too. They look for weaknesses in many ways, and these weaknesses can cause a person to be stuck if they are not careful in life. The more dependent you are, the more they love it. This is how they get people over time to hang around and put up with their bull crap, because an employee is actually to poor to leave or even to poor to attempt to leave, and so they just stay to the employers delight. This happens a lot in peoples lives, and that is sad.

 

[Andylusion]

Yo

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

Sometimes companies understand that if they can keep their people economically dependent, then they can keep them from being able to make a move without it being devastating on them (the employee) for doing so if need too. They look for weaknesses in many ways, and these weaknesses can cause a person to be stuck if they are not careful in life. The more dependent you are, the more they love it. This is how they get people over time to hang around and put up with their bull crap, because an employee is actually to poor to leave or even to poor to attempt to leave, and so they just stay to the employers delight. This happens a lot in peoples lives, and that is sad.

But that's my point. There is no such thing as economic dependency. Chris Gardener was HOMELESS.

According to you, his corporate job, should have kept him 'economically' dependent, and left him a low wage worker for life.

Instead he runs his own company now, and is a multi-millionaire.

Douglas Mcmillon, CEO of Walmart, started off minimum wage unloading trucks at a Walmart distribution center as a part time summer job.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished forever.

Instead he is now CEO of the company.

David Abney, first person in his family to ever go to college, did so by working at UPS for minimum wage, at night unloading trucks. Poor, he couldn't afford to live in the dorm at his college, and instead slept on the couch of the Student Union building.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished.

Abney is now CEO of UPS.

James Skinner, CEO of McDonald's, started off as a Assistant Manager Trainee. That's about $2/hr in 1971.

Dan Rather, worked as a minimum wage CBS radio affiliate.

Oprah Winfrey's first job was entry level news reader at a radio station. To this day, such a position pays $20K entry level.

Carol Bartz, worked for 75¢ an hour, as a bank teller. She's now CEO of Yahoo.

Brad Pitt, dressed in a chicken suit for a restaurant after dropping out of college. I'm sure that was a 'living wage' job.

Cory Monteith, (Glee TV series) worked as a Walmart greeter.

Madonna worked at Dunken Doughnuts.

Jerry Seinfeld was a telemarketer.

Kanye West did retail at The Gap.

Ursula Burns, started off as an Intern at Xerox. The average starting wage of a Xerox intern today is $10 to $15 an hour. Burns is now CEO.

There are literally hundreds of examples. Hundreds. And that's just the ones we know about. I have about a dozen from my own life, that I could tell you about.

The point is this.... according to your belief system, none of these people could have ever been successful. All of them should have been 'economically dependent', unable to leave their low wage job.

Yet it's simply isn't true. Just flat out, you are wrong. They can. And they do. That's all there is too it.

You are only economically dependent, if *YOU* make the choice to be so. If you don't want to work, if you don't want to learn something new, if you don't want to strive to improve yourself, if you don't want to take the extra time, if you want to rather spend your time watching TV, playing video games, or just complaining on a forum somewhere.... yeah, you are stuck. But it's not the employers fault, it's yours.

 

[AntiParty]

They see Christy Walton and think "good for her" when she is worth $36.7Billion. They never do research and wonder why Wal-Mart managers are asked to hand out information on welfare when someone asks for a raise. Do you really think Christy "earns" all of that on her own or do you think she has a team that earns that for her? Are you stating that Corporations shouldn't pay the teams that earn that profit and we should keep giving them welfare so 1 (or a few)can get Ultra/uber/mega/beyond life rich?

You know that the owner of Wal-Mart and McDonalds will still be MEGA rich if they pay their employee's a better salary correct? Minimal research will show you that...........but most let Fox News do the research for them....

 

[Esmeralda]

I once had a 40 hour work week with a 3 day weekend: 4 days of 10 hours each, then 3 days off. Loved it.

 

[beagle9]

Yo

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

Sometimes companies understand that if they can keep their people economically dependent, then they can keep them from being able to make a move without it being devastating on them (the employee) for doing so if need too. They look for weaknesses in many ways, and these weaknesses can cause a person to be stuck if they are not careful in life. The more dependent you are, the more they love it. This is how they get people over time to hang around and put up with their bull crap, because an employee is actually to poor to leave or even to poor to attempt to leave, and so they just stay to the employers delight. This happens a lot in peoples lives, and that is sad.

But that's my point. There is no such thing as economic dependency. Chris Gardener was HOMELESS.

According to you, his corporate job, should have kept him 'economically' dependent, and left him a low wage worker for life.

Instead he runs his own company now, and is a multi-millionaire.

Douglas Mcmillon, CEO of Walmart, started off minimum wage unloading trucks at a Walmart distribution center as a part time summer job.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished forever.

Instead he is now CEO of the company.

David Abney, first person in his family to ever go to college, did so by working at UPS for minimum wage, at night unloading trucks. Poor, he couldn't afford to live in the dorm at his college, and instead slept on the couch of the Student Union building.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished.

Abney is now CEO of UPS.

James Skinner, CEO of McDonald's, started off as a Assistant Manager Trainee. That's about $2/hr in 1971.

Dan Rather, worked as a minimum wage CBS radio affiliate.

Oprah Winfrey's first job was entry level news reader at a radio station. To this day, such a position pays $20K entry level.

Carol Bartz, worked for 75¢ an hour, as a bank teller. She's now CEO of Yahoo.

Brad Pitt, dressed in a chicken suit for a restaurant after dropping out of college. I'm sure that was a 'living wage' job.

Cory Monteith, (Glee TV series) worked as a Walmart greeter.

Madonna worked at Dunken Doughnuts.

Jerry Seinfeld was a telemarketer.

Kanye West did retail at The Gap.

Ursula Burns, started off as an Intern at Xerox. The average starting wage of a Xerox intern today is $10 to $15 an hour. Burns is now CEO.

There are literally hundreds of examples. Hundreds. And that's just the ones we know about. I have about a dozen from my own life, that I could tell you about.

The point is this.... according to your belief system, none of these people could have ever been successful. All of them should have been 'economically dependent', unable to leave their low wage job.

Yet it's simply isn't true. Just flat out, you are wrong. They can. And they do. That's all there is too it.

You are only economically dependent, if *YOU* make the choice to be so. If you don't want to work, if you don't want to learn something new, if you don't want to strive to improve yourself, if you don't want to take the extra time, if you want to rather spend your time watching TV, playing video games, or just complaining on a forum somewhere.... yeah, you are stuck. But it's not the employers fault, it's yours.

I agree with you that people can break free from the grip, but like I said it is a mental sort of Jim Jones thing they pull on people, and sadly there are many who fall for it and think they are stuck for a while all depending. They finally break free as you say, but how long did it take before they realized they could ? If they felt trapped for say 5 years before they were finally free, then the corporation thinks well lets find another mullet and move on, but don't you know that he or she was an idiot, but we won't say that is what they say? Then they think man if we had about 300 more like that one, who are idiots just like the government is, well we would be filthy rich in a lot less time... How about the CEO's taking it upon themselves to do the right thing, and this instead of playing the economic dependency game for even one day against an employee ? Just do what is right, is it so hard to do anymore ?

 

[dblack]

The main thing we have to understand, re: the OP, is that it's absolutely vital that we all agree on the optimal number of hours to work each week and then pass laws to ensure that everyone falls in line.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I put about 2/3 of the front office on 4 day/10 hr work weeks.
Productivity went up - overtime went down. People got more work done, and it cost the company less money to do so.
It is win-win

 

[Mathbud1]

They see Christy Walton and think "good for her" when she is worth $36.7Billion. They never do research and wonder why Wal-Mart managers are asked to hand out information on welfare when someone asks for a raise. Do you really think Christy "earns" all of that on her own or do you think she has a team that earns that for her? Are you stating that Corporations shouldn't pay the teams that earn that profit and we should keep giving them welfare so 1 (or a few)can get Ultra/uber/mega/beyond life rich?

You know that the owner of Wal-Mart and McDonalds will still be MEGA rich if they pay their employee's a better salary correct? Minimal research will show you that...........but most let Fox News do the research for them....

You do know that Wal-Mart and McDonald's don't exist in a vacuum don't you? If mega-sized corporations can afford to pay a higher wage, that means all companies can? Or is it that we don't care if smaller companies can afford it as long as we stick it to the CEO of Wal-Mart?

 

[Andylusion]

They see Christy Walton and think "good for her" when she is worth $36.7Billion. They never do research and wonder why Wal-Mart managers are asked to hand out information on welfare when someone asks for a raise. Do you really think Christy "earns" all of that on her own or do you think she has a team that earns that for her? Are you stating that Corporations shouldn't pay the teams that earn that profit and we should keep giving them welfare so 1 (or a few)can get Ultra/uber/mega/beyond life rich?

You know that the owner of Wal-Mart and McDonalds will still be MEGA rich if they pay their employee's a better salary correct? Minimal research will show you that...........but most let Fox News do the research for them....

The implication here, is that it's someone else's job to make you successful.

It's not. No one 'owes' you anything. The reason Walmart hands out information on welfare, is because people want it, and it's available to them.

I worked at a place, where the day they hired me, they told me to get whatever government assistance, I could get. It was a small mom&pop shop.

You leftists, are oblivious. You compare Walmart to any Mom&pop shop, their wages are always higher at Walmart.

So when Walmart does it, paying a higher wage, well that's bad. When a mom&pop shop does it, with a much lower wage, well that's ok, because they are not evil Walmart. Idiots.

You know that the owner of Wal-Mart and McDonalds will still be MEGA rich if they pay their employee's a better salary correct?

How many times have we been over this? Do you people have no memory?

If you confiscated the entire compensation package of the CEO of Walmart, or McDonalds, and distributed it to the employees, it would not even be 1/2 of a CENT per hour.

Has public education fallen so far, that you people can't even use a Calculator?

CEO of Walmart, $20.7 Million compensation, divided by 2.2 Million employees. That's $9.40 A YEAR. That's 0.49¢ an hour. 0.49¢... that's a little less than HALF OF A CENT, per hour. Oh that'll change people's lives....

HELLO! That $20.7, isn't even cash. Most of it is stock options. You can't pay employees with stocks. CEO of Walmart actual Cash pay $2 Million. Divided by 2.2 Million employees. 90¢ per employee PER YEAR. 0.04¢ an hour.

Can't you people do math? Gah.... mindless people on here.

 

[Andylusion]

I once had a 40 hour work week with a 3 day weekend: 4 days of 10 hours each, then 3 days off. Loved it.

I'm doing that right now... but I don't love it so much. I'm so tired by the time I get home, I usually go to bed pretty quick. As soon as I wake up in the morning, it's time to go back. Do you just like it because of the 3 days off? Or do you actually enjoy the seeming non-stop rat race through the week?

 

[Andylusion]

Yo

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

Sometimes companies understand that if they can keep their people economically dependent, then they can keep them from being able to make a move without it being devastating on them (the employee) for doing so if need too. They look for weaknesses in many ways, and these weaknesses can cause a person to be stuck if they are not careful in life. The more dependent you are, the more they love it. This is how they get people over time to hang around and put up with their bull crap, because an employee is actually to poor to leave or even to poor to attempt to leave, and so they just stay to the employers delight. This happens a lot in peoples lives, and that is sad.

But that's my point. There is no such thing as economic dependency. Chris Gardener was HOMELESS.

According to you, his corporate job, should have kept him 'economically' dependent, and left him a low wage worker for life.

Instead he runs his own company now, and is a multi-millionaire.

Douglas Mcmillon, CEO of Walmart, started off minimum wage unloading trucks at a Walmart distribution center as a part time summer job.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished forever.

Instead he is now CEO of the company.

David Abney, first person in his family to ever go to college, did so by working at UPS for minimum wage, at night unloading trucks. Poor, he couldn't afford to live in the dorm at his college, and instead slept on the couch of the Student Union building.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished.

Abney is now CEO of UPS.

James Skinner, CEO of McDonald's, started off as a Assistant Manager Trainee. That's about $2/hr in 1971.

Dan Rather, worked as a minimum wage CBS radio affiliate.

Oprah Winfrey's first job was entry level news reader at a radio station. To this day, such a position pays $20K entry level.

Carol Bartz, worked for 75¢ an hour, as a bank teller. She's now CEO of Yahoo.

Brad Pitt, dressed in a chicken suit for a restaurant after dropping out of college. I'm sure that was a 'living wage' job.

Cory Monteith, (Glee TV series) worked as a Walmart greeter.

Madonna worked at Dunken Doughnuts.

Jerry Seinfeld was a telemarketer.

Kanye West did retail at The Gap.

Ursula Burns, started off as an Intern at Xerox. The average starting wage of a Xerox intern today is $10 to $15 an hour. Burns is now CEO.

There are literally hundreds of examples. Hundreds. And that's just the ones we know about. I have about a dozen from my own life, that I could tell you about.

The point is this.... according to your belief system, none of these people could have ever been successful. All of them should have been 'economically dependent', unable to leave their low wage job.

Yet it's simply isn't true. Just flat out, you are wrong. They can. And they do. That's all there is too it.

You are only economically dependent, if *YOU* make the choice to be so. If you don't want to work, if you don't want to learn something new, if you don't want to strive to improve yourself, if you don't want to take the extra time, if you want to rather spend your time watching TV, playing video games, or just complaining on a forum somewhere.... yeah, you are stuck. But it's not the employers fault, it's yours.

I agree with you that people can break free from the grip, but like I said it is a mental sort of Jim Jones thing they pull on people, and sadly there are many who fall for it and think they are stuck for a while all depending. They finally break free as you say, but how long did it take before they realized they could ? If they felt trapped for say 5 years before they were finally free, then the corporation thinks well lets find another mullet and move on, but don't you know that he or she was an idiot, but we won't say that is what they say? Then they think man if we had about 300 more like that one, who are idiots just like the government is, well we would be filthy rich in a lot less time... How about the CEO's taking it upon themselves to do the right thing, and this instead of playing the economic dependency game for even one day against an employee ? Just do what is right, is it so hard to do anymore ?

I don't think you grasp how economics work. "CEO does the 'right thing'".

Why is it the 'right thing' to pay people a higher wage? That implies they deserve more. You don't deserve anything. You deserve what you can negotiate for. My existence... and the sucking of air... and the pooping... and the drinking of water, and pissing it down the drain.... does not entitle me to ANYTHING.

The only thing I am entitled to, is whatever price I can sell my labor for.

And see, you would grasp this, if you were the one paying it.

You drive your car into one of those little girl scout car washes. The girl scout comes up and says "$80 please!"

Are you going to pay $80, to have some 8 year old girls spritz your car with dirty soap water, and wipe it with an old rag, and wave as you leave all spotted?

Of course not. Girl Scout "Why can't you do the right thing? You are going to play economic dependency on us??"

Or the dude walking down the side walk with flowers for sale. "$50 a rose please. Do the right thing! Don't force me into economic dependency!"

Or the guy mowing your lawn. "$100 a mow! Do the right thing! Don't force me into economic dependency!"

Of course, you understand that their labor, isn't worth that much money to you. One semi decent rose on the road, isn't worth $50. One mowing of your lawn (unless you own several acers), isn't worth $100. One shoddy girl scout car washing, isn't worth $80.

But what about 'doing the right thing!'. Well that doesn't apply to you.... does it?

See, you the customer, determine how much the labor is worth. Not the CEO. The CEO has no ability to dictate how much the labor is worth.

If the CEO could... they would say the Cashier's labor was worth $1 Million an hour. Pay them $900K an hour, pocket $100K, and charge the customer $1 Million per product.

If the CEO could do that, they would. They would love to just deem that part-time high school students labor was worth millions. But they can't.

Before the Airline deregulation, the Airline CEO could do this. Because the price of a ticket was mandated by the government. And because customers were forced to pay a high price, and they were subsidized by the government, the Airline pilots and stewards were paid large pay checks.

The CEO wasn't 'doing the right thing'. He was simply paying his employees, what their labor was worth. Because the customer was paying more, their labor was worth more, and thus they were paid more. That's all there is to it.

Walmart can't pay their employees more. If they did, they would have to charge the customer more. If they charged the customer more, the customers would go someplace else.

There is only one reason I go to Walmart. I don't like super mega stores, because I can't ever seem to find what I want. Too big. Too much stuff. Five minute hikes are for nature trails, not trying to find 2-liters of Dr. Pepper.

The only reason I go there... is price. I was looking for a vacuum sweeper a few years back. I went to my local store, and it was $79. I decided to check walmart which was just on the other side of the street. It was $42. I bought from Walmart. If it wasn't that much cheaper all the time... I wouldn't buy from there. No customers, and now all your employees who you think should be paid more, will be paid ZERO.

Which is worse.... $9/hr, or ZERO?

 

[Andylusion]

The main thing we have to understand, re: the OP, is that it's absolutely vital that we all agree on the optimal number of hours to work each week and then pass laws to ensure that everyone falls in line.

Everyone falls in line?

See this is another aspect, that people just don't grasp.

You will NEVER be very wealthy working a straight 40 hours.

If you want to have real money, it is going to take real time. No one makes big money, working just a mere 40-hours. NO ONE.

CEOs don't work a mere 40 hours. Are you kidding? My CEO works 7 AM to 6 PM, Monday through Friday, and sometimes on the Weekend.

I've known many CEOs. I worked at an IT Consulting place, and the CEO was there before I arrived every morning, and was there long after I left.

That Honda guy that quit and opened his own consulting firm, he's working more than he ever did at Honda. But that's why he's wealthy.

One of my co-workers I knew, got a job working for Xerox, and his base pay was $60,000. But.... they told him up front, he would be working 60-hours a week at the end of every month. 3-weeks 40, 1 week 60, every month.

When you say "absolutely vital that we all agree on the optimal number of hours to work each week and then pass laws to ensure that everyone falls in line", you are basically saying "I want to mandate everyone is poor".

 

[beagle9]

Yo

I don't believe that at all. No one owns me, and I have never been a part of a Union.

Unions served a specific purpose for a specific situation, that no longer exists in America today.

There was a time when mining companies, and similar, would build mining towns, and build a rail road to the town. Then recruit people to work at the mine, pay for a ticket to the mine, and build them a home.

The problem was, they paid them in company dollars only redeemable at the company store. They couldn't get a horse or cart, couldn't buy a ticket out of town, and any money they saved was all company dollars useless anywhere else. They were literally trapped.

The Unions served a purpose, to save those people from a trap.
Is anyone today paid in company dollars? Is anyone trapped at a remote mining town, or anything similar?

I have quit several jobs, and nothing has happened to me. I literally walked off two jobs, because the boss wasn't treating me well. Nothing happened. No one could stop me.

This isn't Pre-78 China, where the boss actually does own you. The communist party says you work at X place. If you don't show up, the boss sends a note to government, and they come and drag you back to your job.

We don't live there. In America, my next door neighbor was working for Honda. He decided he was going to start his own business, less they paid home more. They give him a little raise, he said it wasn't enough, they refused, he quit and started his own company. Now as a private contractor, he earns whatever he wants, and vacations whenever he wants.

That's America. The boss doesn't "own" you, unless *YOU* decide you are owned. The people who are trapped, are trapped because they choose to be trapped. And that's all there is too it.

Sometimes companies understand that if they can keep their people economically dependent, then they can keep them from being able to make a move without it being devastating on them (the employee) for doing so if need too. They look for weaknesses in many ways, and these weaknesses can cause a person to be stuck if they are not careful in life. The more dependent you are, the more they love it. This is how they get people over time to hang around and put up with their bull crap, because an employee is actually to poor to leave or even to poor to attempt to leave, and so they just stay to the employers delight. This happens a lot in peoples lives, and that is sad.

But that's my point. There is no such thing as economic dependency. Chris Gardener was HOMELESS.

According to you, his corporate job, should have kept him 'economically' dependent, and left him a low wage worker for life.

Instead he runs his own company now, and is a multi-millionaire.

Douglas Mcmillon, CEO of Walmart, started off minimum wage unloading trucks at a Walmart distribution center as a part time summer job.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished forever.

Instead he is now CEO of the company.

David Abney, first person in his family to ever go to college, did so by working at UPS for minimum wage, at night unloading trucks. Poor, he couldn't afford to live in the dorm at his college, and instead slept on the couch of the Student Union building.

According to you, his corporate job should have kept him economically dependent for life, and left him impoverished.

Abney is now CEO of UPS.

James Skinner, CEO of McDonald's, started off as a Assistant Manager Trainee. That's about $2/hr in 1971.

Dan Rather, worked as a minimum wage CBS radio affiliate.

Oprah Winfrey's first job was entry level news reader at a radio station. To this day, such a position pays $20K entry level.

Carol Bartz, worked for 75¢ an hour, as a bank teller. She's now CEO of Yahoo.

Brad Pitt, dressed in a chicken suit for a restaurant after dropping out of college. I'm sure that was a 'living wage' job.

Cory Monteith, (Glee TV series) worked as a Walmart greeter.

Madonna worked at Dunken Doughnuts.

Jerry Seinfeld was a telemarketer.

Kanye West did retail at The Gap.

Ursula Burns, started off as an Intern at Xerox. The average starting wage of a Xerox intern today is $10 to $15 an hour. Burns is now CEO.

There are literally hundreds of examples. Hundreds. And that's just the ones we know about. I have about a dozen from my own life, that I could tell you about.

The point is this.... according to your belief system, none of these people could have ever been successful. All of them should have been 'economically dependent', unable to leave their low wage job.

Yet it's simply isn't true. Just flat out, you are wrong. They can. And they do. That's all there is too it.

You are only economically dependent, if *YOU* make the choice to be so. If you don't want to work, if you don't want to learn something new, if you don't want to strive to improve yourself, if you don't want to take the extra time, if you want to rather spend your time watching TV, playing video games, or just complaining on a forum somewhere.... yeah, you are stuck. But it's not the employers fault, it's yours.

I agree with you that people can break free from the grip, but like I said it is a mental sort of Jim Jones thing they pull on people, and sadly there are many who fall for it and think they are stuck for a while all depending. They finally break free as you say, but how long did it take before they realized they could ? If they felt trapped for say 5 years before they were finally free, then the corporation thinks well lets find another mullet and move on, but don't you know that he or she was an idiot, but we won't say that is what they say? Then they think man if we had about 300 more like that one, who are idiots just like the government is, well we would be filthy rich in a lot less time... How about the CEO's taking it upon themselves to do the right thing, and this instead of playing the economic dependency game for even one day against an employee ? Just do what is right, is it so hard to do anymore ?

I don't think you grasp how economics work. "CEO does the 'right thing'".

Why is it the 'right thing' to pay people a higher wage? That implies they deserve more. You don't deserve anything. You deserve what you can negotiate for. My existence... and the sucking of air... and the pooping... and the drinking of water, and pissing it down the drain.... does not entitle me to ANYTHING.

The only thing I am entitled to, is whatever price I can sell my labor for.

And see, you would grasp this, if you were the one paying it.

You drive your car into one of those little girl scout car washes. The girl scout comes up and says "$80 please!"

Are you going to pay $80, to have some 8 year old girls spritz your car with dirty soap water, and wipe it with an old rag, and wave as you leave all spotted?

Of course not. Girl Scout "Why can't you do the right thing? You are going to play economic dependency on us??"

Or the dude walking down the side walk with flowers for sale. "$50 a rose please. Do the right thing! Don't force me into economic dependency!"

Or the guy mowing your lawn. "$100 a mow! Do the right thing! Don't force me into economic dependency!"

Of course, you understand that their labor, isn't worth that much money to you. One semi decent rose on the road, isn't worth $50. One mowing of your lawn (unless you own several acers), isn't worth $100. One shoddy girl scout car washing, isn't worth $80.

But what about 'doing the right thing!'. Well that doesn't apply to you.... does it?

See, you the customer, determine how much the labor is worth. Not the CEO. The CEO has no ability to dictate how much the labor is worth.

If the CEO could... they would say the Cashier's labor was worth $1 Million an hour. Pay them $900K an hour, pocket $100K, and charge the customer $1 Million per product.

If the CEO could do that, they would. They would love to just deem that part-time high school students labor was worth millions. But they can't.

Before the Airline deregulation, the Airline CEO could do this. Because the price of a ticket was mandated by the government. And because customers were forced to pay a high price, and they were subsidized by the government, the Airline pilots and stewards were paid large pay checks.

The CEO wasn't 'doing the right thing'. He was simply paying his employees, what their labor was worth. Because the customer was paying more, their labor was worth more, and thus they were paid more. That's all there is to it.

Walmart can't pay their employees more. If they did, they would have to charge the customer more. If they charged the customer more, the customers would go someplace else.

There is only one reason I go to Walmart. I don't like super mega stores, because I can't ever seem to find what I want. Too big. Too much stuff. Five minute hikes are for nature trails, not trying to find 2-liters of Dr. Pepper.

The only reason I go there... is price. I was looking for a vacuum sweeper a few years back. I went to my local store, and it was $79. I decided to check walmart which was just on the other side of the street. It was $42. I bought from Walmart. If it wasn't that much cheaper all the time... I wouldn't buy from there. No customers, and now all your employees who you think should be paid more, will be paid ZERO.

Which is worse.... $9/hr, or ZERO?

Are you not embarrassed of yourself yet ?

 

[Mathbud1]

Are you not embarrassed of yourself yet ?

Why would he be embarrassed?

 

[Andylusion]

Are you not embarrassed of yourself yet ?

Why should I be embarrassed, when I'm right? You are the one that is economically ignorant. If anyone should be embarrassed, it would be you.

 

[TGN]

Interesting, the Kellog company actually had a 6 hour workday all the way up until the mid-80s when it was finally phased out. The idea was that it was cheaper to have fewer workers working longer hours due to benefit expenses. I guess that means they would've kept it otherwise. Maybe Basic Income can be a partial solution, in that it could reduce benefits and insurance costs for employers, who could then afford to hire more workers to work 12 hour production schedules split into two 6 hour shifts? It could increase productivity (as a happy worker is a productive one) and also reduce unemployment as an added benefit to society.

When America Came This Close to Establishing a 30-Hour Workweek Alternet

"In 1992, I traveled with Hunnicutt to interview former thirty-hour week workers in Battle Creek. They spoke movingly of the free time they had when they worked shorter hours—'you weren’t all wore out when you got home,' one man told me. One couple, Chuck and Joy Blanchard, who had both worked at the plant, claimed that the six-hour day made Chuck a 'feminist' long before the women’s movement. He and his wife shared the housework and he was a 'room parent' at his children’s school."