The 14th Amendment and the Constitutional End Run around the Debt Ceiling.

Sallow

The Big Bad Wolf.
Oct 4, 2010
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Let's see who blinks first..

WASHINGTON -- Growing increasingly pessimistic about the prospects for a deal that would raise the debt ceiling, Democratic senators are revisiting a solution to the crisis that rests on a simple proposition: The debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned," reads the 14th Amendment.

"This is an issue that's been raised in some private debate between senators as to whether in fact we can default, or whether that provision of the Constitution can be held up as preventing default," Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), an attorney, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. "I don't think, as of a couple weeks ago, when this was first raised, it was seen as a pressing option. But I'll tell you that it's going to get a pretty strong second look as a way of saying, 'Is there some way to save us from ourselves?'"

14th Amendment: Democratic Senators See Debt Ceiling As Unconstitutional
 
Let's see who blinks first..

WASHINGTON -- Growing increasingly pessimistic about the prospects for a deal that would raise the debt ceiling, Democratic senators are revisiting a solution to the crisis that rests on a simple proposition: The debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned," reads the 14th Amendment.

"This is an issue that's been raised in some private debate between senators as to whether in fact we can default, or whether that provision of the Constitution can be held up as preventing default," Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), an attorney, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. "I don't think, as of a couple weeks ago, when this was first raised, it was seen as a pressing option. But I'll tell you that it's going to get a pretty strong second look as a way of saying, 'Is there some way to save us from ourselves?'"

14th Amendment: Democratic Senators See Debt Ceiling As Unconstitutional

Ya all we need is for the Senate to agree to cuts. As it stands right now the house has passed budget bills and the Senate REFUSES to even consider them.

And in Budget talks about CUTTING the Budget the Dems demanded more spending.

But hey lets pretend they are not part of the problem.
 
Let's see who blinks first..

WASHINGTON -- Growing increasingly pessimistic about the prospects for a deal that would raise the debt ceiling, Democratic senators are revisiting a solution to the crisis that rests on a simple proposition: The debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned," reads the 14th Amendment.

"This is an issue that's been raised in some private debate between senators as to whether in fact we can default, or whether that provision of the Constitution can be held up as preventing default," Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), an attorney, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. "I don't think, as of a couple weeks ago, when this was first raised, it was seen as a pressing option. But I'll tell you that it's going to get a pretty strong second look as a way of saying, 'Is there some way to save us from ourselves?'"

14th Amendment: Democratic Senators See Debt Ceiling As Unconstitutional

Ya all we need is for the Senate to agree to cuts. As it stands right now the house has passed budget bills and the Senate REFUSES to even consider them.

And in Budget talks about CUTTING the Budget the Dems demanded more spending.

But hey lets pretend they are not part of the problem.

They did agree to cuts ( Which in my book was nuts ). They didn't agree to the number that the Republicans asked for..and I seriously think that even if they met the number..it still wouldn't be enough.

The end game on this one is getting rid of Medicare and Social Security..along with the cuts.
 
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Sallow, you are an idiot son!

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;


To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
 
Sallow, you are an idiot son!

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;


To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

English your second language..

Son?
 
Sallow, you are an idiot son!

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

English your second language..

Son?
Apparently it is yours, boy.
 
Hypocrisy.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

“Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” Barack Obama, Senator. 2006.

In 2006, every single Democrat voted against raising the ceiling. Why now is it ok? Hmmm? What fundamental shift took place that it is now not a sign of failed leadership? For the record, I do not blame Obama - at least not just Obama. I blame every single fucking congresscritter.
 
Hypocrisy.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

“Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” Barack Obama, Senator. 2006.

In 2006, every single Democrat voted against raising the ceiling. Why now is it ok? Hmmm? What fundamental shift took place that it is now not a sign of failed leadership? For the record, I do not blame Obama - at least not just Obama. I blame every single fucking congresscritter.

I dunno.

Maybe it's because the rest of Congress voted 19 times to raise it..and authorized Bush to spend some 4 trillion dollars. Maybe they were really trying to make a point about a President who entered office with a surplus..and was about to leave it with a massive deficit.

In any case..it was the wrong thing, for Senator Obama, to do.
 
Hypocrisy.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

“Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” Barack Obama, Senator. 2006.

In 2006, every single Democrat voted against raising the ceiling. Why now is it ok? Hmmm? What fundamental shift took place that it is now not a sign of failed leadership? For the record, I do not blame Obama - at least not just Obama. I blame every single fucking congresscritter.

I dunno.

Maybe it's because the rest of Congress voted 19 times to raise it..and authorized Bush to spend some 4 trillion dollars. Maybe they were really trying to make a point about a President who entered office with a surplus..and was about to leave it with a massive deficit.

In any case..it was the wrong thing, for Senator Obama, to do.

So when Bush spent to try to stave off recession, that was bad. But when Obama did it, it was ok? I'm confused about this shit. Because if it's ok for one, then it's ok for both. But you cannot have it both ways.
 
Let's see who blinks first..

WASHINGTON -- Growing increasingly pessimistic about the prospects for a deal that would raise the debt ceiling, Democratic senators are revisiting a solution to the crisis that rests on a simple proposition: The debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned," reads the 14th Amendment.

"This is an issue that's been raised in some private debate between senators as to whether in fact we can default, or whether that provision of the Constitution can be held up as preventing default," Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), an attorney, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. "I don't think, as of a couple weeks ago, when this was first raised, it was seen as a pressing option. But I'll tell you that it's going to get a pretty strong second look as a way of saying, 'Is there some way to save us from ourselves?'"

14th Amendment: Democratic Senators See Debt Ceiling As Unconstitutional

Because the government borrows based on its full faith, Congress doesn't have the authority to undermine that confidence by reneging on its obligation to its lenders, the ruling declared.

Wow!

I have to admit that this is one aspect of the debt issue that hadn't occurred to me.
 
Let's see who blinks first..

WASHINGTON -- Growing increasingly pessimistic about the prospects for a deal that would raise the debt ceiling, Democratic senators are revisiting a solution to the crisis that rests on a simple proposition: The debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned," reads the 14th Amendment.

"This is an issue that's been raised in some private debate between senators as to whether in fact we can default, or whether that provision of the Constitution can be held up as preventing default," Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), an attorney, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. "I don't think, as of a couple weeks ago, when this was first raised, it was seen as a pressing option. But I'll tell you that it's going to get a pretty strong second look as a way of saying, 'Is there some way to save us from ourselves?'"

14th Amendment: Democratic Senators See Debt Ceiling As Unconstitutional

Because the government borrows based on its full faith, Congress doesn't have the authority to undermine that confidence by reneging on its obligation to its lenders, the ruling declared.

Wow!

I have to admit that this is one aspect of the debt issue that hadn't occurred to me.

I was kinda taken aback myself. But it sorta makes sense..there's nothing in the Constitution about Debt Ceilings..and push comes to shove..so much the congress does, like Filibusters...probably would not stand up to Constitutional muster.
 
Hypocrisy.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

“Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” Barack Obama, Senator. 2006.

In 2006, every single Democrat voted against raising the ceiling. Why now is it ok? Hmmm? What fundamental shift took place that it is now not a sign of failed leadership? For the record, I do not blame Obama - at least not just Obama. I blame every single fucking congresscritter.

I dunno.

Maybe it's because the rest of Congress voted 19 times to raise it..and authorized Bush to spend some 4 trillion dollars. Maybe they were really trying to make a point about a President who entered office with a surplus..and was about to leave it with a massive deficit.

In any case..it was the wrong thing, for Senator Obama, to do.

So when Bush spent to try to stave off recession, that was bad. But when Obama did it, it was ok? I'm confused about this shit. Because if it's ok for one, then it's ok for both. But you cannot have it both ways.

What Bush was facing was a mild recession as a result of a natural business cycle ( Well natural to the boom bust nature of American business ). What Obama was facing with a total collapse of the entire Financial/Banking Infrastructure on a world wide scale.

To try to equate the two is specious at best.
 
I dunno.

Maybe it's because the rest of Congress voted 19 times to raise it..and authorized Bush to spend some 4 trillion dollars. Maybe they were really trying to make a point about a President who entered office with a surplus..and was about to leave it with a massive deficit.

In any case..it was the wrong thing, for Senator Obama, to do.

So when Bush spent to try to stave off recession, that was bad. But when Obama did it, it was ok? I'm confused about this shit. Because if it's ok for one, then it's ok for both. But you cannot have it both ways.

What Bush was facing was a mild recession as a result of a natural business cycle ( Well natural to the boom bust nature of American business ). What Obama was facing with a total collapse of the entire Financial/Banking Infrastructure on a world wide scale.

To try to equate the two is specious at best.

Actually, that's just not true. Bush was not facing a 'mild recession', economists at that time were forewarning of this clusterfuck. What Bush did was try to lessen it. He failed. So did Obama.

If you could take your head out of the Democrats ass for long enough to do some honest, unbaised, research you would see that.
 
So when Bush spent to try to stave off recession, that was bad. But when Obama did it, it was ok? I'm confused about this shit. Because if it's ok for one, then it's ok for both. But you cannot have it both ways.

What Bush was facing was a mild recession as a result of a natural business cycle ( Well natural to the boom bust nature of American business ). What Obama was facing with a total collapse of the entire Financial/Banking Infrastructure on a world wide scale.

To try to equate the two is specious at best.

Actually, that's just not true. Bush was not facing a 'mild recession', economists at that time were forewarning of this clusterfuck. What Bush did was try to lessen it. He failed. So did Obama.

If you could take your head out of the Democrats ass for long enough to do some honest, unbaised, research you would see that.

I worked in the financial industry all during that time, dear. I was inside looking out.
 
Let's see who blinks first..

Ya all we need is for the Senate to agree to cuts. As it stands right now the house has passed budget bills and the Senate REFUSES to even consider them.

And in Budget talks about CUTTING the Budget the Dems demanded more spending.

But hey lets pretend they are not part of the problem.

They did agree to cuts ( Which in my book was nuts ). They didn't agree to the number that the Republicans asked for..and I seriously think that even if they met the number..it still wouldn't be enough.

The end game on this one is getting rid of Medicare and Social Security..along with the cuts.

They cut appox 30B. That's an insult when we're running a 2T dollar deficit and 14 T in the hole. We should be hacking 250 billion a year in cuts.
 
Ya all we need is for the Senate to agree to cuts. As it stands right now the house has passed budget bills and the Senate REFUSES to even consider them.

And in Budget talks about CUTTING the Budget the Dems demanded more spending.

But hey lets pretend they are not part of the problem.

They did agree to cuts ( Which in my book was nuts ). They didn't agree to the number that the Republicans asked for..and I seriously think that even if they met the number..it still wouldn't be enough.

The end game on this one is getting rid of Medicare and Social Security..along with the cuts.

They cut appox 30B. That's an insult when we're running a 2T dollar deficit and 14 T in the hole. We should be hacking 250 billion a year in cuts.

:lol:

Gotta love it.

Closing loopholes, ending subsidies and getting rid of the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy would close that hole mighty quickly.

And if you'd like a surplus in like three years? Cut military spending in half.
 
Dissect the 14th Amendment - Appropriately called the CIVIL RIGHTS AMENDMENT:

Section 1: Birth Right and Naturalization Clause (possibility the worst cause in the entire constitution), Privilege and Immunity Clause, Due Process Clause and Equal Protection Clause.

Section 2: How the number of House Representative will be apportioned by population count. Requirements to be a resident of state and be at least 21 and what a Rep can be impeached for.

Section 3: Says no Congressman or elected official can engage in rebellion, insurrection or give aid to enemy (the reason Luis Gutierrez should be impeached, but I digress.,

Section 4: (Now we come to where the mental midget Shallow is trying to make a baseless point) - Validity of public debt, apportioned by congress, FOR SUPPRESSING AN INSURRECTON OR REBELLION shall not be questioned. All debts incurred by the US or States in aid of an insurrection or rebellion against the US shall be held illegal and void.

TRANSLATION: Only debts incurred to end an insurrection or rebellion against the US shall not be questioned. In no way shape or form are they talking about raising the debt ceiling to avoid the country going bankrupt due to reckless spending. Heck this section doesn't even include wars like WW I, Korea, Vietnam or Iraq. I think the only wars it MIGHT include in the War of 1812 (Britian was on our soil, however that war was WELL before the 14th amendment was even contemplated and made part of the constitution), the Civil War (made after this war), WW II (we were attacked at Pearl Harbor) and Afghanistan (we were attacked at World Trade Center and the Pentagon).

Trying to say this clause (which has NEVER be part of a legal action) is trying to say the constitution REQUIRES the debt ceiling to be raised due to reckless spending is beyond a clueless and ignorant argument!

Section 5: Give Congress power to enforce the 14th amendment!
 
Both bush and obama are idiots if they think they can spend their way out of a debt crisis. When you have too much debt you do what the American people do. You cut your spending until you have paid down your debt. Sometimes you have to cut out ALL unnecessary spending. Maybe we should cut all foreign aid, stop unnecessary wars, close government programs and departments that aren't authorized by the Constitution. Our Congressmen think it's their job to create new programs and spend money, and that's why we are so screwed.
 
Hypocrisy.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

“Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” Barack Obama, Senator. 2006.

In 2006, every single Democrat voted against raising the ceiling. Why now is it ok? Hmmm? What fundamental shift took place that it is now not a sign of failed leadership? For the record, I do not blame Obama - at least not just Obama. I blame every single fucking congresscritter.

I dunno.

Maybe it's because the rest of Congress voted 19 times to raise it..and authorized Bush to spend some 4 trillion dollars. Maybe they were really trying to make a point about a President who entered office with a surplus..and was about to leave it with a massive deficit.

In any case..it was the wrong thing, for Senator Obama, to do.

So once again the Left falls back to "well he did it so we can also" never mind that the debt is 10x that of the previous administrations which was extremely bad then its 10x worse now but don't let that stop you.
 

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