The #1 BEST way to prevent voter fraud

[Dreamy]

We use the color in the oval style ballot. No idea required which concerns me the most.

 

[4Horsemen]

Actually, as was seen in 2010 as yes ballots are challenged based on "speling" and yes ballots are challenged based on handwriting, as shown by the court cases following the 2010 write-in campaign in Alaska.

>>>>

Which is why the write-ins should be in manuscript. the voting rolls has the signature.

You either want hanging chads or bad handwriting. which one your nerves the best?

That's called the Either/Or fallacy, structure a question where only two solutions are possible when in fact there are multiple solutions.

There are some places (although rare) that still use the old lever action voting machines. Which is neither a write-in for party candidates nor is it a hanging chad.

In my state we use a real difficult tool to master, it's called a pencil. Fill in the bubble and run it through an optical scanner. Again, neither is a write-in or a hanging chad ballot.

There are electronic touch screen voting machines now which requires neither that every candidate be written in or can produce a hanging chad.

In the future secure internet connections and public/private encryption technology will allow for internet voting. You won't have to write in a parties selected candidate and there will be no hanging chads.

Your either or solution is, well silly.

>>>>

Your "pencil" idea is what caused the Hanging Chad fiasco. get a clue. that method is flawed. as proven by the hanging chad.

Electoincs can be damaged if you accidently spill water on them or drop them, potentiallly losing all the data on the hard drive of said computer touch screen gadget. VERY stupid idea in your state indeed.

So far your "options" are garbage to compared to mine. no 2 hand-writings are the same. just like a fingerprint.

 

[Oldguy]

There's always some voter fraud, but can anyone post any concrete evidence that voter fraud EVER decided a national or state election?

 

[4Horsemen]

We use the color in the oval style ballot. No idea required which concerns me the most.

Same here in Texas, which is a very BAD IDEA. and outdated and arcaic.

 

[4Horsemen]

There's always some voter fraud, but can anyone post any concrete evidence that voter fraud EVER decided a national or state election?

Jeb Bush in Florida

 

[4Horsemen]

How about if we circle a picture of our candidate?

complete with a coloring book section. I'm for that...lol anything to stop the corrupt voter fraud actions

lol choose a crayon...red or blue?

I can shade my ass off so I want the Blue since it's my favorite color..lol...

 

[Dreamy]

We use the color in the oval style ballot. No idea required which concerns me the most.

Same here in Texas, which is a very BAD IDEA. and outdated and arcaic.

Just a side note to all this but would the handwritten vote one have to be cursive or block print or either? I ask because I just found out some kids in school have never been taught cursive handwriting.

 

[4Horsemen]

and by all means people, if you ave a better idea to smash voter fraud, please post them.

 

[4Horsemen]

We use the color in the oval style ballot. No idea required which concerns me the most.

Same here in Texas, which is a very BAD IDEA. and outdated and arcaic.

Just a side note to all this but would the handwritten vote one have to be cursive or block print or either? I ask because I just found out some kids in school have never been taught cursive handwriting.

Manuscript. always. cursive is hard for some people to master and it looks like shit...lol

 

[WorldWatcher]

Which is why the write-ins should be in manuscript. the voting rolls has the signature.

You either want hanging chads or bad handwriting. which one your nerves the best?

That's called the Either/Or fallacy, structure a question where only two solutions are possible when in fact there are multiple solutions.

There are some places (although rare) that still use the old lever action voting machines. Which is neither a write-in for party candidates nor is it a hanging chad.

In my state we use a real difficult tool to master, it's called a pencil. Fill in the bubble and run it through an optical scanner. Again, neither is a write-in or a hanging chad ballot.

There are electronic touch screen voting machines now which requires neither that every candidate be written in or can produce a hanging chad.

In the future secure internet connections and public/private encryption technology will allow for internet voting. You won't have to write in a parties selected candidate and there will be no hanging chads.

Your either or solution is, well silly.

>>>>

Your "pencil" idea is what caused the Hanging Chad fiasco. get a clue. that method is flawed. as proven by the hanging chad.

Sorry.

Bubble machines are different then hole punch machines (which are the ones that can produce a "hanging chad".

There are no chads to hang on bubble ballots. If you don't understand the basic functioning of different systems, then you can't intelligently argue against them.

Electoincs can be damaged if you accidently spill water on them or drop them, potentiallly losing all the data on the hard drive of said computer touch screen gadget. VERY stupid idea in your state indeed.

1. Voters are not allowed to carry food or drinks to the voting machine in any state I've ever witnessed (5 at this point in my life).

2. Voters are not allowed to carry voting machines around in any state I've witnessed.

So far your "options" are garbage to compared to mine. no 2 hand-writings are the same. just like a fingerprint.

Which is exactly what generated the arguments from trying to "interpret" handwriting in the Alaska 2010 write in campaign. Republicans were trying to disqualify another Republican, just imagine what happens when the Dem's get involved.


Write-in the candidates name on all ballots, dumbest idea ever.



>>>>

 

[Dreamy]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

 

[WorldWatcher]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

***Waves****

Hey Dreamy - long time no see.


Bubble Ballot is just what I call them, not sure if that is the "official" name.



>>>>

 

[Dreamy]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

***Waves****

Hey Dreamy - long time no see.


Bubble Ballot is just what I call them, not sure if that is the "official" name.



>>>>

Hi WW. Good to share a thread with you again. I like the name and it beats my inept description. lol

 

[4Horsemen]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

when you say "bubble ballot" you are talking about the darken the circle kind right?

that's the one where the hanging chad came into play. they apparently ran their bubble ballots through a machine that punched holes in their circles and missed one, causing the hanging chad. maybe I'm wrong but that's what I thought it was. it wasn't the lever style voting booth that caused it was it? not sure.

 

[4Horsemen]

Bubble machines are different then hole punch machines (which are the ones that can produce a "hanging chad".

There are no chads to hang on bubble ballots. If you don't understand the basic functioning of different systems, then you can't intelligently argue against them.

Bubble machines are not fool-proof either. a Manuscript of an individual is. Why do you think the Police want you to sign the tickets? Banks want you to sign your checks?...etc..the methods of using the written Signature and Manuscript are tried and true.

Electoincs can be damaged if you accidently spill water on them or drop them, potentiallly losing all the data on the hard drive of said computer touch screen gadget. VERY stupid idea in your state indeed.

1. Voters are not allowed to carry food or drinks to the voting machine in any state I've ever witnessed (5 at this point in my life).

2. Voters are not allowed to carry voting machines around in any state I've witnessed.

Who set up the machines? or did they walk out there on their own and set themselves up? Human error is everywhere when it comes to computers. get a clue. so many voters walking in the door, anybody can knock over a machine by accident. or the people who set them up can drop them by accident. Shit happens ya know. remember the hanging chad?

So far your "options" are garbage to compared to mine. no 2 hand-writings are the same. just like a fingerprint.
Which is exactly what generated the arguments from trying to "interpret" handwriting in the Alaska 2010 write in campaign. Republicans were trying to disqualify another Republican, just imagine what happens when the Dem's get involved.

Write-in the candidates name on all ballots, dumbest idea ever.
>>>>

Not dumb at all. way more fool-proof than any mentioned.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

when you say "bubble ballot" you are talking about the darken the circle kind right?

that's the one where the hanging chad came into play. they apparently ran their bubble ballots through a machine that punched holes in their circles and missed one, causing the hanging chad. maybe I'm wrong but that's what I thought it was. it wasn't the lever style voting booth that caused it was it? not sure.

Wrong...

........... Wrong...

.......................Wrong


The Bubble Ballot DID NOT produce the hanging chad controversy to the Bush II election. That was the Punch Ballot which is a different animal.

The Bubble Ballot (Top Image) is like taking machine scored tests. Did you take the SAT or ACT or ASVAB in high school? Same concept. Use a pencil, darken the circle, and run it through an optical scanning machine.

The Punch Ballot (Bottom Image) is the culpret of the 2004 issues. You have a multi-page "book" of options. You then use a tool to poke into the hole for the selection you want. They theory is that pushing the tool through the hole pushes out the "chad", which was not happening in some cases. The result was the famous "hanging chad" and "dimple" count that was in the news.


The two are not the same, which is one reason why your early "either/or" fallacy was wrong.

>>>>

 

[4Horsemen]

Yeah I am trying to understand how the handwritten ballot would trump the bubble ballot as far as avoiding fraud. I had no idea that is what they were called. Thanks WW. lol

when you say "bubble ballot" you are talking about the darken the circle kind right?

that's the one where the hanging chad came into play. they apparently ran their bubble ballots through a machine that punched holes in their circles and missed one, causing the hanging chad. maybe I'm wrong but that's what I thought it was. it wasn't the lever style voting booth that caused it was it? not sure.

Wrong...

........... Wrong...

.......................Wrong


The Bubble Ballot DID NOT produce the hanging chad controversy to the Bush II election. That was the Punch Ballot which is a different animal.

The Bubble Ballot (Top Image) is like taking machine scored tests. Did you take the SAT or ACT or ASVAB in high school? Same concept. Use a pencil, darken the circle, and run it through an optical scanning machine.

The Punch Ballot (Bottom Image) is the culpret of the 2004 issues. You have a multi-page "book" of options. You then use a tool to poke into the hole for the selection you want. They theory is that pushing the tool through the hole pushes out the "chad", which was not happening in some cases. The result was the famous "hanging chad" and "dimple" count that was in the news.


The two are not the same, which is one reason why your early "either/or" fallacy was wrong.

We called that CBOC back in the days...old school way of taking test. that's how they do the ballots in Texas...Bubble Ballot. still not fool-proof no matter how much you think it is.

A Signature and Manuscript is a tried and true method used in various transactions since it's inception. go figure.

And you say using a Manuscript for voting is the dumbest idea ever?...LOL

hint-hint on history- Before the mechanical ballot booth, people WROTE IN their candidates on a piece of paper and put them into a slit-top box. and counted them later.

You had a point somewhere but I think it got lost in the madness of your rant against writing in candidates as if it doesn't work when it was one of the FIRST official voting processes ever in history...lol

but you're entitled to your opinion

 

[WorldWatcher]

Bubble machines are different then hole punch machines (which are the ones that can produce a "hanging chad".

There are no chads to hang on bubble ballots. If you don't understand the basic functioning of different systems, then you can't intelligently argue against them.

Bubble machines are not fool-proof either. a Manuscript of an individual is. Why do you think the Police want you to sign the tickets? Banks want you to sign your checks?...etc..the methods of using the written Signature and Manuscript are tried and true.

Electoincs can be damaged if you accidently spill water on them or drop them, potentiallly losing all the data on the hard drive of said computer touch screen gadget. VERY stupid idea in your state indeed.

1. Voters are not allowed to carry food or drinks to the voting machine in any state I've ever witnessed (5 at this point in my life).

2. Voters are not allowed to carry voting machines around in any state I've witnessed.

Who set up the machines? or did they walk out there on their own and set themselves up? Human error is everywhere when it comes to computers. get a clue. so many voters walking in the door, anybody can knock over a machine by accident. or the people who set them up can drop them by accident. Shit happens ya know. remember the hanging chad?

So far your "options" are garbage to compared to mine. no 2 hand-writings are the same. just like a fingerprint.
Which is exactly what generated the arguments from trying to "interpret" handwriting in the Alaska 2010 write in campaign. Republicans were trying to disqualify another Republican, just imagine what happens when the Dem's get involved.

Write-in the candidates name on all ballots, dumbest idea ever.
>>>>

Not dumb at all. way more fool-proof than any mentioned.

1. I never said machines are foolproof. They are however more accurate then having an army of vote counters in a backroom trying to figure out the scribblings of millions of different people.

2. Optical scanning (Bubble Ballots) don't have hanging chads.

3. The idea that you think that thousands, probably 10's of thousands of people spread all over the country trying to interpret the chicken scratching of 100,000,000 people voting is going to be more accurate then a properly designed physical or electronic machine system is - well scary. The Bubble System is way better then either the Punch Ballot (the one with the hanging chads) or manual write-ins (as shown from the Alaska lesson).



I'm not sure how useful this discussion is though, you have indicated that the Bubble Ballot resulted in hanging chads - which is impossible for that style of ballot.




>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

but you're entitled to your opinion

And you are entitled to yours.


The difference is that, and I'm glad to say, your opinion will never be implemented for national level or even state level elections because most people know what a total disaster hundreds of millions of people hand-writting their candidates name onto a ballot would cause.


A good day to you sir.



>>>>

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Definitely keep the voter ID. that's how they get in line.

But how costly is it to have some ball pens on the table that they already have when you walk in? You already have to sign your name on the voting roll anyway.

People sit for 10-15 minutes trying to decide their choices anyway. so where's the cost?

I think given the absolute seriousness of THIS election, it's crucial all the votes are counted, counted properly and counted accurately. and distinct signatures do just that. hanging chads don't. and whose to say this election won't be cluttered with hanging chads again?

Have you ever spent much time trying to read other people's handwriting?

Why does that even matter moron? It's not a fucking speling test we're after. It's the validity of the voter in the gotdamn booth.

You have to sign when you walk in the gotdamn door and show your license anyway. Do you think they give a shit how your handwriting looks at that point in the process? no. so why the fuck should it matter when you cast your vote?

the fraud comes in at the time of the fucking vote counting, not at the time of the actual vote. and just by default of a person signing in when they walk in with their DL or voter ID is the proof that you are a legit voter, not when you sit there and cast your vote.

Printed Handwriting is a way better idea than just hanging your hopes on a hanging chad fiasco again. Remember Bush2? He stole a second term like that. and I'm almost positive Obama supporters will try the same shit since he's on his way out.

By law and common sense the name has to be legible and correctly spelled. This is not rocket science, any lessening of those two requirements would lead to even MORE voter fraud problems.