Thanks To Obama's Cuts The Russians Are Catching Up

[Navy1960]

BEIJING, June 02, 2005 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced agreements with Chinese suppliers worth an estimated US$600 million for production of commercial airplane parts and components, including the first firm contract with such suppliers to build parts for the all-new Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

Boeing Commercial Airplanes Vice President and General Manager, Airplane Production Carolyn Corvi represented Boeing in Beijing to finalize contracts for the 787 composite rudder, the 737 forward entry door and the 737 automatic over-wing exit door with Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co. Ltd. (CAC), a China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I)-affiliated company. Also completed were contracts for the 787 wing-to-body fairing panels between Boeing and Hafei Aviation Industry Co., Ltd. (Hafei), an AVIC II-affiliated company.
Boeing: Boeing 787 Highlights $600 Million in Contracts with Chinese Suppliers

Outsourcing is not limited to just items you buy at Wal-Mart.

CHINESE computer spies are suspected of having cracked the Pentagon's $500 billion Joint Strike Fighter program, accessing top-secret files containing details of the aircraft's stealth design and electronics.
Details of the brazen break-in were reported yesterday in The Wall Street Journal newspaper, citing current and former US government officials.

The Royal Australian Air Force has placed a tentative order for 100 of the F-35 JSFs for about $16 billion, easily making it Australia's biggest defence purchase.

Last night, Defence confirmed it was aware of the report and was seeking more information. "Defence has seen the US reports and will discuss the issues raised with the JSF Program office in due course," it said in a written response to questions from The Australian.
Chinese hackers steal JSF secrets | The Australian

There are a few things worth mentioning, first the Russian T-50 will not come into production and will do so in limited numbers several years from now around 2017. It's builder Sukhoi has already made a long term commitment to build the SU-35 for the forseeable future and this can be seen by the recent purchases of this aircraft by the Russian Air Force which continues to but and will for several years. India has expressed interest in in the T-50 and has made overtures to Sukhoi to invest in it's development. However there is a new player in the India aircraft needs and that the F-16IN which is a "super cruise" version of the F-16 purpose built for India based on the F-16XL technology and using the F-35 Radar system which is the feature of the F-35 JSF that makes it a worthy aircraft. Otherwise the F-35 is an average 4th generation performer. Nations like Russia,China, and the EU are at or approaching equality in technological terms with the US Military, with the exception of the F-22, which we cancelled at 187 aircraft.

 

[mudwhistle]

RW ...the best intel?.....i can see some people laughing at that......they have failed us a few times here.....

Ya....he forgets about that little WMD thingy.

And what did that WMD thingy have to do with air superiority. We are talking about situational awareness type of intellegence as it relates to knowing where your enemy is and him knowing where you are

Read the post...I was commenting on his post. The subject was intel....not air-superiority.

 

[uscitizen]

It will not matter in a few years we will be buying our fighter jets from China anyway.

You talk like that's a bad thing.

And I am out for rep points till they reset later...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Can anyone explain to me how the Russians have "caught up" ?

- We have the most powerful Air Force (and Naval Air) on earth
- We have the most advanced avionics
- We have the best missiles
- We have the best intelligence
- We have air superiority in any theater on earth

The Russians tried for 50 years to keep up with us and they couldn't. What makes you think they are our equal now or anytime in the forseeable future?

RW ...the best intel?.....i can see some people laughing at that......they have failed us a few times here.....

Are you kidding me?

The US has the best intelligence capability on earth. Satellite surveilance, NSA monitors millions of transmissions, AWACS, Electronic Warfare.....
In terms of air superiority....we know where you are before you know where we are

the WMD's in Iraq.....cant pinpoint OBL,but yet he gets videos out regularly....just 2 that i remembered some posters from the left in some other threads were mentioning about the failure of our Intel Network....just sayin....

 

[uscitizen]

When politics controls intel it will be wrong.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Can anyone explain to me how the Russians have "caught up" ?

- We have the most powerful Air Force (and Naval Air) on earth
- We have the most advanced avionics
- We have the best missiles
- We have the best intelligence
- We have air superiority in any theater on earth

The Russians tried for 50 years to keep up with us and they couldn't. What makes you think they are our equal now or anytime in the forseeable future?

They just finished testing a stealth aircraft comparable to our F22 Rapter so now we're on the same playing field with them. They now have the only space program capable of delivering heavy payloads into space.

By the way....Chinese pilots can clean our clocks in dogfights so I wouldn't pound my chest too much if I were you.

Oh.....please

First off......Dogfights are a small portion of air superiority and rarely happen

Second......You are going to have to provide a link on the magnificent Chinese

yea i agree.....according to Janes Magazine the thing that sets our pilots and the Brits above others is the experience.....lots of these guys have been in a war zone,how many Chinese have?.....and the quality of the machine they are flying in.....

 

[Navy1960]

Chinese J-10

Home > Air Forces > Aircraft >



Jian-10 Multirole Fighter Aircraft



■J-10B
■J-10 History
■J-10 Video
The Jian-10 (J-10) is a multirole, all-weather fighter aircraft designed for both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The aircraft was designed by the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute) and built by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of AVIC. The aircraft has been operational with the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) since 2003. The J-10 is available in the single-seat fighter variant J-10 and two-seater fighter-trainer variant J-10S. A further improved single-seat fighter variant designated J-10B reportedly made its maiden flight in February 2009.

Programme

The programme to develop the J-10, known as Project 8610, started in the mid-1980s. The aircraft was originally intended to be a high-performance air-superiority fighter to counter the then emerging fourth-generation fighters such as F-16 and MiG-29, but the end of the Cold War and changing requirements shifted the development towards a multirole fighter with both air-to-air and ground attack mission capabilities.

Jian-10 (J-10, F-10) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com


CHINESE J-10

EUROFIGHTER

Look familier?

 

[MaggieMae]

He is cutting spending. Isn't that what you want?
Sheesh, some will bitch if you hang them with a new rope.

You are one dumb fuck, the Space Program was so small it did not even register at 1 percent of the Budget. You do understand what happens when we can no longer reach space to repair satellites? Well then maybe I am giving you to much credit for intelligence.

Which "satellites" are you talking about? There are a slew of them up there that belong to private industry. It's their problem. The only "cut" was to the expensive and iffy "Constellation" moon project.


“Working with NASA, the industry can develop the capabilities to safely launch U.S. astronauts just as commercial spaceflight providers are already trusted by the U.S. government right now to launch multi-billion dollar military satellites, upon which the security of our nation and lives of our troops overseas depend,” wrote Bretton Alexander, president of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation, in a prepared statement. “Investing $6 billion will fund a full program of multiple winners for commercial crew, so that robust competition in the marketplace can reduce costs and generate innovation.”

Read More Obama Gives NASA More Money, Cuts Manned Trip to Moon | Wired Science | Wired.com

 

[MaggieMae]

what else should we expect from the hussein? His parents were big russian fans, and we all know the hussein followed in their footsteps. Its only logical to let russia take the reigns again in space.

idiot alert idiot alert idiot alert​

 

[MaggieMae]

First, UScitizen, there are smart cuts, and there are not so smart cuts, so quit acting stupidly.

What does concern me about this is China's involvement in their space program. This is the unknown factor, that could come back to bite us in a big way. What I'm talking about is a miltary weapon they could develop, and we would be decades behind in nuetralizing the threat. just a thought.....

Neither China nor Russia has any interest in getting an edge on the United States in order to defeat us as an "enemy," which is cold war thinking. In a global economy, where both are strong participants now, they can't afford to.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did I say in the decade? I'm looking 25-45 years out. Why do you just look at tomorrow?
I bet you were never good at chess, were you?

Funny you should mention that. I was pretty good at chess and confounded those I played with that studied the subject. I was unpredictable. Still am.

Why don't you start acting like it then? Instead of thinking about your next move, think 4-5 moves ahead.

Funny, that's what the Obama administration has been doing regarding the economy. Forecasting. But to listen to the critics, since the economy isn't up and running swimmingly by now, we're all doomed.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yet another thread on this topic, first lets get this straight the Presidents budget did not cut any MONEY, it CUT and re-tasked program(s) within NASA and the DoD. In fact the President raised the funding , so why then would Republicans be for any of that based on a fiscal level when it adds to the deficit and accomplishes NOTHING. Starting with the F-22 and ending it's production at 187 in favor of the F-35 which by the way is an average aircraft at best in terms of performance and the US Navy is calling into question operating costs on that aircraft and due to these factors Sec. Gates yesterday fired the program manager for the F-35 project and is holding back 614 million in funding until these issues are addressed. One of those issues is the F-35's failure to perform well against current Russian, American, and EU 4th generation fighters. The Cut in the Constellation program will result in the US after the shuttles last flight this year, having to rely on Russia to provide lifting and resupply needs to the ISS which is a several billion dollar US investment. Further the US will be unable for the forseeable future to service the HST ( Hubble Space Telescope) as well as communications, GPS, and it's own sat. networks without assistance. We will have launch only capability with the Delta series rockets but no manned capability . That is is a FACT. Now if those of you who think that "outsourcing" our space flight needs to other nations at the expense of American security, jobs, and science is a good thing, then by all means continue to celebrate mediocrity.

Go to NasaWatch home page. Seems there isn't a whole lot of disagreement with this decision after all. And this was of particular interest. (I thought conservatives WANTED private enterprise to do all the heavy lifting?)

NASA Unveils Commercial Human Spaceflight Development Agreements and Announces $50 Million in Seed Funding for Commercial Crew | SpaceRef - Your Space Reference

 

[Navy1960]

He is cutting spending. Isn't that what you want?
Sheesh, some will bitch if you hang them with a new rope.

You are one dumb fuck, the Space Program was so small it did not even register at 1 percent of the Budget. You do understand what happens when we can no longer reach space to repair satellites? Well then maybe I am giving you to much credit for intelligence.

Which "satellites" are you talking about? There are a slew of them up there that belong to private industry. It's their problem. The only "cut" was to the expensive and iffy "Constellation" moon project.


“Working with NASA, the industry can develop the capabilities to safely launch U.S. astronauts just as commercial spaceflight providers are already trusted by the U.S. government right now to launch multi-billion dollar military satellites, upon which the security of our nation and lives of our troops overseas depend,” wrote Bretton Alexander, president of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation, in a prepared statement. “Investing $6 billion will fund a full program of multiple winners for commercial crew, so that robust competition in the marketplace can reduce costs and generate innovation.”

Read More Obama Gives NASA More Money, Cuts Manned Trip to Moon | Wired Science | Wired.com

6 Billion to develop a private manned space flight industry, Maggie, your smarter than that. Come now so far the ONLY private enterprise to even put a man in space was Burt Rutans group and that with spaceship one which flew to 328,000 feet and then back. It has ZERO lifting capacity to orbit and with the follow-on which has not flown yet it will be sometime before a private entity can even orbit a man around the earth much less develop the capabilites for complex procedures such as docking manuvers needed for the ISS and other systems. Space-X the other competetor that NASA has pinned all its hopes on has ZERO manned launch experience and so far is in its infancy in the launch of commercial LEO rocktes. (Falcon-9). In terms of 2008 dollars a program like Apollo would cost 145 Billion dollars, so it's nonsense to think that these companies will suddenly with this small amount of money will step in and take up the slack. In reality and NASA has said as such in the near term RUSSIA will provide launch capability and heavy lift capability when the shuttle retires at the end of this year. As for Ares.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTwuEoJoPEA]YouTube - Ares 1 X Launch[/ame]

 

[MaggieMae]

Can anyone explain to me how the Russians have "caught up" ?

- We have the most powerful Air Force (and Naval Air) on earth
- We have the most advanced avionics
- We have the best missiles
- We have the best intelligence
- We have air superiority in any theater on earth

The Russians tried for 50 years to keep up with us and they couldn't. What makes you think they are our equal now or anytime in the forseeable future?

They just finished testing a stealth aircraft comparable to our F22 Rapter so now we're on the same playing field with them. They now have the only space program capable of delivering heavy payloads into space.

By the way....Chinese pilots can clean our clocks in dogfights so I wouldn't pound my chest too much if I were you.

Oh dear, I wonder when the plan of attack is scheduled for? Before or after the Chinese decide that without the U.S. buying up half their economy is more important than attempting a "dogfight" with us (a battle they might win, but would lose the war)? The Chinese will never relax its military might, just as Russia won't, not because they see any territorial threat from the U.S., but the threat comes from neighboring countries.

 

[MaggieMae]

He is cutting spending. Isn't that what you want?
Sheesh, some will bitch if you hang them with a new rope.

You must be daffed.

I think cutting the nonessentials would be fine...but cutting our defense budget during two wars and in essence grounding us isn't exactly very bright.

Iran is sending rodents into space but we won't be able to send so much as a microbe into space without the Russians permission.

How quickly one skinny bastard can destroy everything that made this country great.

The technology that you use to communicate was made possible by advancements in space. Cell phones, computers, micro-chips. None of it would exist if it wasn't used to reduce weight on our spacecraft.

You know Obama in fact increased defense spending, right?

Which defense firms will get lift from budget? | Reuters

Muddy also seems confused between the space program and military defense programs. The purpose of the space program isn't to install WMD on the moon capable of blowing up certain countries. As he does correctly point out, the space program does provide us with technology, some of which deters war or even prevents the threat of war.

 

[MaggieMae]

Can anyone explain to me how the Russians have "caught up" ?

- We have the most powerful Air Force (and Naval Air) on earth
- We have the most advanced avionics
- We have the best missiles
- We have the best intelligence
- We have air superiority in any theater on earth

The Russians tried for 50 years to keep up with us and they couldn't. What makes you think they are our equal now or anytime in the forseeable future?

some just want America to fail.

We must be vigilant against enemies both domestic and foreign.

Obviously you have been napping on the job because one of them currently works out of the Oval Office.

Not one speech he's given tells me he loves this country.

The only thing he talks about is how screwed up it's been. Yet he doesn't seem to have anything better to offer.

You're hearing only what you want to hear and imagining the rest. I'm always amused when someone apparently likes to advertise how much he doesn't pay attention.

 

[uscitizen]

Dpoes this cut even impact the military space budget?

 

[Navy1960]

Yet another thread on this topic, first lets get this straight the Presidents budget did not cut any MONEY, it CUT and re-tasked program(s) within NASA and the DoD. In fact the President raised the funding , so why then would Republicans be for any of that based on a fiscal level when it adds to the deficit and accomplishes NOTHING. Starting with the F-22 and ending it's production at 187 in favor of the F-35 which by the way is an average aircraft at best in terms of performance and the US Navy is calling into question operating costs on that aircraft and due to these factors Sec. Gates yesterday fired the program manager for the F-35 project and is holding back 614 million in funding until these issues are addressed. One of those issues is the F-35's failure to perform well against current Russian, American, and EU 4th generation fighters. The Cut in the Constellation program will result in the US after the shuttles last flight this year, having to rely on Russia to provide lifting and resupply needs to the ISS which is a several billion dollar US investment. Further the US will be unable for the forseeable future to service the HST ( Hubble Space Telescope) as well as communications, GPS, and it's own sat. networks without assistance. We will have launch only capability with the Delta series rockets but no manned capability . That is is a FACT. Now if those of you who think that "outsourcing" our space flight needs to other nations at the expense of American security, jobs, and science is a good thing, then by all means continue to celebrate mediocrity.

Go to NasaWatch home page. Seems there isn't a whole lot of disagreement with this decision after all. And this was of particular interest. (I thought conservatives WANTED private enterprise to do all the heavy lifting?)

NASA Unveils Commercial Human Spaceflight Development Agreements and Announces $50 Million in Seed Funding for Commercial Crew | SpaceRef - Your Space Reference

I'm aware of the 50 million given to Space-X for the CRV in fact I already posted the information on it in another thread. One other thing, the reason why most like me think private enterprise is the ONLY way to go now is because our Govt. does not have the vision or the courage to sustain a program like Apollo. If you work in the research part of NASA, Ames etc. I'm sure your overjoyed at this decision, however, I would suggest you see how well this decision is goping over at Johnson and Huntsville. Further, the former director of NASA might disagree with that assertion as well.

 

[MaggieMae]

BEIJING, June 02, 2005 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced agreements with Chinese suppliers worth an estimated US$600 million for production of commercial airplane parts and components, including the first firm contract with such suppliers to build parts for the all-new Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

Boeing Commercial Airplanes Vice President and General Manager, Airplane Production Carolyn Corvi represented Boeing in Beijing to finalize contracts for the 787 composite rudder, the 737 forward entry door and the 737 automatic over-wing exit door with Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co. Ltd. (CAC), a China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I)-affiliated company. Also completed were contracts for the 787 wing-to-body fairing panels between Boeing and Hafei Aviation Industry Co., Ltd. (Hafei), an AVIC II-affiliated company.
Boeing: Boeing 787 Highlights $600 Million in Contracts with Chinese Suppliers

Outsourcing is not limited to just items you buy at Wal-Mart.

CHINESE computer spies are suspected of having cracked the Pentagon's $500 billion Joint Strike Fighter program, accessing top-secret files containing details of the aircraft's stealth design and electronics.
Details of the brazen break-in were reported yesterday in The Wall Street Journal newspaper, citing current and former US government officials.

The Royal Australian Air Force has placed a tentative order for 100 of the F-35 JSFs for about $16 billion, easily making it Australia's biggest defence purchase.

Last night, Defence confirmed it was aware of the report and was seeking more information. "Defence has seen the US reports and will discuss the issues raised with the JSF Program office in due course," it said in a written response to questions from The Australian.
Chinese hackers steal JSF secrets | The Australian

There are a few things worth mentioning, first the Russian T-50 will not come into production and will do so in limited numbers several years from now around 2017. It's builder Sukhoi has already made a long term commitment to build the SU-35 for the forseeable future and this can be seen by the recent purchases of this aircraft by the Russian Air Force which continues to but and will for several years. India has expressed interest in in the T-50 and has made overtures to Sukhoi to invest in it's development. However there is a new player in the India aircraft needs and that the F-16IN which is a "super cruise" version of the F-16 purpose built for India based on the F-16XL technology and using the F-35 Radar system which is the feature of the F-35 JSF that makes it a worthy aircraft. Otherwise the F-35 is an average 4th generation performer. Nations like Russia,China, and the EU are at or approaching equality in technological terms with the US Military, with the exception of the F-22, which we cancelled at 187 aircraft.

2005??? I hope you will read the more updated contract awards that I posted from NASAWATCH.

 

[Meister]

First, UScitizen, there are smart cuts, and there are not so smart cuts, so quit acting stupidly.

What does concern me about this is China's involvement in their space program. This is the unknown factor, that could come back to bite us in a big way. What I'm talking about is a miltary weapon they could develop, and we would be decades behind in nuetralizing the threat. just a thought.....

Neither China nor Russia has any interest in getting an edge on the United States in order to defeat us as an "enemy," which is cold war thinking. In a global economy, where both are strong participants now, they can't afford to.

I'm not talking about this year, Maggie. I'm talking 50 years out, you and I don't know what the climate will be between the nations.