And she was. She was trained to do that, or she better have been trained to do that. Soldiers are also trained to move to the sound of the guns. To engage a shooter not flee.
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Thank You, Kimberly Munley
- Thread starter del
- Start date
And she was. She was trained to do that, or she better have been trained to do that. Soldiers are also trained to move to the sound of the guns. To engage a shooter not flee.
Toome
Active Member
- Feb 19, 2009
- 906
- 260
- 28
Just to put this into perspective, being shot ain't fun. A person who gets shot instinctively seeks shelter away from the source of the shot. It takes a hell of a lot of discipline, training and determination to fight that instinct, move towards the danger and aggressively engage the enemy.
Officer Munley's actions were truly heroic. I bet you'll never hear her say that. I bet she'll probably say that she was just doing her job.
HOOAH!
And she was. She was trained to do that, or she better have been trained to do that. Soldiers are also trained to move to the sound of the guns. To engage a shooter not flee.
You and I understand that, Gunny. I guess it's a mystery to those who never wore the uniform or ever heard shots fired in anger.
Semper Fi
Diuretic
Permanently confused
Can I just add perhaps some perspective because - okay I may be jumping to conclusions - I think I see some clashing ideas here. A word of caution, I have no military experience.
Military personnel who are undergoing active operational service are doing something that I can only imagine because I've never been in such a situation. I have been watching a brilliant documentary on the war in Afghanistan
Ross Kemp in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've only seen the first series. I have been stunned by a couple of things. One is this bloke and his team's courage in getting into the front line where bullets are flying. The second thing that stunned me was watching the soldiers doing their work. Day after day and hour after hour they were in continual danger, only withdrawing from engagement with the enemy when objectives were achieved and they could basically finish work for the day. I'm not being disrespectful, they really did finish work for the day, their work being to engage a dangerous and committed enemy. Aside from anything else it takes courage to get up in the morning (at o-dark-thirty) and go and do that work. I mean, you could get killed!
Now, Kimberley Munsen has probably never had to draw and fire her personal weapon. I know policing in the US is very different from that in Australia, far more hazardous even in non-urban areas but I'm told that many cops never have to draw and fire - and that's a good thing. I have spoken with two who did and who had to kill and they were far from blase about it, but also realised they had no other choice. Officer Munsen - as has been pointed out - responded to her training and her inner voice when she and her partner approached the active shooter. Both of them could have cordoned and contained, both of them could have quit on the spot when you think about it, but neither did and they saved lives by their brave actions. In a critical few minutes both of them acted with courage and professionalism. But - and this is not a criticism - neither of them may ever have to face such a situation again. The solders in that documentary were basically having a series of Groundhog Days for the duration of their operation, they were going into danger on a daily basis.
It's said comparisons are odious and it's times like these that I understand the meaning of that phrase. Police and military are different (that's why military call pollice "civilian police") in many ways, the slim similarities - police being a quasi-military (sometimes fully military as in the RCMP and European gendarmerie-type forces). Some police officers do heroic things and risk their lives - and lose their lives - doing those acts. Those individuals deserve the appellation of "hero" for their courage in acting in that manner. But with all due respect to all police officers everywhere, the appellation shouldn't automatically be applied.
So, to the military. Are they "heroes"? I think some are. And they are - if there are witnesses - recognised as heroes by their peers and superiors. The thing is that to be recognised in the military, in action, for heroism means you have to be doing something really, really courageous. I realise the US has the Congressional Medal of Honor and other nations have their own highest awards for bravery but given my cultural and national background the Victoria Cross (and the Victoria Cross for Australia) are the markers of such heroism. I think it's the case with Congressional Medal of Honor winners as well but in Britain and Australia the holder of a VC is always saluted first by another military person, even the highest ranking officer in the military will salute the VC holder of whatever rank they hold.
Victoria Cross - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heroism isn't a comparative subject. When we see it we know it. The contexts may be different but the act of courage is obvious.
Military personnel who are undergoing active operational service are doing something that I can only imagine because I've never been in such a situation. I have been watching a brilliant documentary on the war in Afghanistan
Ross Kemp in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've only seen the first series. I have been stunned by a couple of things. One is this bloke and his team's courage in getting into the front line where bullets are flying. The second thing that stunned me was watching the soldiers doing their work. Day after day and hour after hour they were in continual danger, only withdrawing from engagement with the enemy when objectives were achieved and they could basically finish work for the day. I'm not being disrespectful, they really did finish work for the day, their work being to engage a dangerous and committed enemy. Aside from anything else it takes courage to get up in the morning (at o-dark-thirty) and go and do that work. I mean, you could get killed!
Now, Kimberley Munsen has probably never had to draw and fire her personal weapon. I know policing in the US is very different from that in Australia, far more hazardous even in non-urban areas but I'm told that many cops never have to draw and fire - and that's a good thing. I have spoken with two who did and who had to kill and they were far from blase about it, but also realised they had no other choice. Officer Munsen - as has been pointed out - responded to her training and her inner voice when she and her partner approached the active shooter. Both of them could have cordoned and contained, both of them could have quit on the spot when you think about it, but neither did and they saved lives by their brave actions. In a critical few minutes both of them acted with courage and professionalism. But - and this is not a criticism - neither of them may ever have to face such a situation again. The solders in that documentary were basically having a series of Groundhog Days for the duration of their operation, they were going into danger on a daily basis.
It's said comparisons are odious and it's times like these that I understand the meaning of that phrase. Police and military are different (that's why military call pollice "civilian police") in many ways, the slim similarities - police being a quasi-military (sometimes fully military as in the RCMP and European gendarmerie-type forces). Some police officers do heroic things and risk their lives - and lose their lives - doing those acts. Those individuals deserve the appellation of "hero" for their courage in acting in that manner. But with all due respect to all police officers everywhere, the appellation shouldn't automatically be applied.
So, to the military. Are they "heroes"? I think some are. And they are - if there are witnesses - recognised as heroes by their peers and superiors. The thing is that to be recognised in the military, in action, for heroism means you have to be doing something really, really courageous. I realise the US has the Congressional Medal of Honor and other nations have their own highest awards for bravery but given my cultural and national background the Victoria Cross (and the Victoria Cross for Australia) are the markers of such heroism. I think it's the case with Congressional Medal of Honor winners as well but in Britain and Australia the holder of a VC is always saluted first by another military person, even the highest ranking officer in the military will salute the VC holder of whatever rank they hold.
Victoria Cross - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heroism isn't a comparative subject. When we see it we know it. The contexts may be different but the act of courage is obvious.
Emma
Evil Liberal Leftist
What's even more amazing is that she wasn't just 'shot in the legs'... the bullet(s) hit her femoral artery. She took him down after sustaining what could have been (and from reports were damn close to) fatal wounds.
Cyborgmudhen
VIP Member
- Nov 7, 2009
- 225
- 18
- 66
My only regret is that she didn't have a more effective weapon.
Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.
Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.
Cyborgmudhen
VIP Member
- Nov 7, 2009
- 225
- 18
- 66
My only regret is that she didn't have a more effective weapon.
Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.
Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.
California Girl
Rookie
- Oct 8, 2009
- 50,337
- 10,058
- 0
- Banned
- #28
She is now more entitled to the Nobel Peace Prize than POTUS. LOL
Diuretic
Permanently confused
What's even more amazing is that she wasn't just 'shot in the legs'... the bullet(s) hit her femoral artery. She took him down after sustaining what could have been (and from reports were damn close to) fatal wounds.
Heck I didn't know it was that close for her, femoral artery,....
Edit - no idea how that little winky face got up there but that's not my mood. She could have died from bleeding.
Last edited:
Emma
Evil Liberal Leftist
What's even more amazing is that she wasn't just 'shot in the legs'... the bullet(s) hit her femoral artery. She took him down after sustaining what could have been (and from reports were damn close to) fatal wounds.
Heck I didn't know it was that close for her, femoral artery,....
Yup. For some reason, that hasn't been mentioned in most articles about her.
Policewoman who took down gunman known as 'fearless’ | Local News | Star-Telegram.com
KILLEEN — Police Sgt. Kimberly Munley is a hero. And lucky to be alive.
The diminutive officer was shot in both legs Thursday during her gunbattle with Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the man accused of killing 13 fellow soldiers during a shooting rampage at Fort Hood. One of the shots severed her femoral artery.
Dr. Kelly Matlock, an anesthesiologist at Metroplex Adventist Hospital, said Munley owes her life to the soldiers who tied tourniquets to her legs to stop the bleeding, long before she ended up in the emergency room.
"She would have died before she arrived without those tourniquets," she said. "She would have bled to death. They saved her life."
It doesn't take that long to exsanguinate from a severed artery...
The Ft. Hood Hero: Who is Kimberly Munley? - Yahoo! News
Trained to respond forcefully to shooting, heading to the sound of the gunfire to stop it not contain it. Just as I thought.
Trained to respond forcefully to shooting, heading to the sound of the gunfire to stop it not contain it. Just as I thought.
Diuretic
Permanently confused
And a good thing too.
Active Shooter Response Training: A Modern Police Necessity – Police Officers Association of Michigan
We call it "cordon and contain" but it's the same concept. Believe it or not it's still slightly contentious in some areas. Columbine was a tragedy but it caused a re-think of tactics and doctrine (if I can use what is a military term) in the US and that has informed practice where I am.
With the advent of Active Shooter training that has developed in response to incidents like the Columbine High School shootings, the law enforcement community has come full circle.In response to critical incidents that the "average" cop was once called on to handle, Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) teams were developed.Alongside that development, police doctrine and training changed so that the patrol officer wasn't required to handle hostage and barricade situations."Surround and contain" became the patrol doctrine norm so that SWAT could be called out to work with negotiators in resolving the situation.With regard to incidents like the one at Columbine High School, the law enforcement community has had to evolve again to depend on patrol officers to take aggressive action to resolve deadly situations.Let's take a look at some of the incidents that spawned SWAT teams and then those that have mandated a more aggressive response from patrol officers.
Active Shooter Response Training: A Modern Police Necessity – Police Officers Association of Michigan
We call it "cordon and contain" but it's the same concept. Believe it or not it's still slightly contentious in some areas. Columbine was a tragedy but it caused a re-think of tactics and doctrine (if I can use what is a military term) in the US and that has informed practice where I am.
JenyEliza
Princess of Rhetoric
Kimberly Munley said:"I live a good life...a hard one, but I go to sleep peacefully at night knowing that I may have made a difference in someone's life." --
~~Kimberly Munley
Yes ma'am, you have made a HUGE difference in many lives.
Sidestreamer
Silver Member
- Banned
- #34
Not to take away from what Munley has done, but from what I have heard her supervisor/partner also was on scene with her to help take out the shooter. Doesn't he also deserve some recognition for his actions?
JW Frogen
Gold Member
- May 10, 2009
- 6,220
- 1,243
- 155
Not to take away from what Munley has done, but from what I have heard her supervisor/partner also was on scene with her to help take out the shooter. Doesn't he also deserve some recognition for his actions?
No.
Diuretic
Permanently confused
Not to take away from what Munley has done, but from what I have heard her supervisor/partner also was on scene with her to help take out the shooter. Doesn't he also deserve some recognition for his actions?
Yes, police work is a team game, especially in situations like this, but it's also not an approval auction, so kudos where it's deserved for sure.
Mike458877
Conservative
Yes. she did do her job, the same job which many are expected to do daily.
I don't use the word hero often, but, this woman is a true hero.
She took multiple hits, yet still stayed engaged and took down the threat.
She performed in heroic fashion and is a hero!
Mike
I don't use the word hero often, but, this woman is a true hero.
She took multiple hits, yet still stayed engaged and took down the threat.
She performed in heroic fashion and is a hero!
Mike
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