Thank God For The Gop's Health Plan

[CowboyTed]

I didn't think the GOP presented a plan. They want to keep things as is... forever. Why are they opposed to all people being covered. Is this not aq good thing? Health care should never be a privilege, if you care about the sanctity of life.

It depends on what you think the purpose of government is. If you think government is there to take care of us and provide us with our needs, then health care should be a priority for government. If you think government is there to protect our rights, and it's up to us to take care of ourselves, then government has no responsibility to provide us with health care, and no authority to dictate how we manage it ourselves.

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

 

[dblack]

I didn't think the GOP presented a plan. They want to keep things as is... forever. Why are they opposed to all people being covered. Is this not aq good thing? Health care should never be a privilege, if you care about the sanctity of life.

It depends on what you think the purpose of government is. If you think government is there to take care of us and provide us with our needs, then health care should be a priority for government. If you think government is there to protect our rights, and it's up to us to take care of ourselves, then government has no responsibility to provide us with health care, and no authority to dictate how we manage it ourselves.

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

 

[emilynghiem]

The GOP health plan, die early, leave a pretty corpse....

ObamaCare was the GOP healthcare plan ... until Obama passed it. Then they hated it.

Sorry but no Republican plan I ever saw
created a pseudo-govt exchange mixing federal mandates with private insurance business.

Romney was criticized as being too moderate by
passing the state version of insurance mandates, and that did not create
a federal exchange that imposed IRS penalties on all citizens.
It was on a state level which is different from federal.

If you do not know the difference between state and federal laws and govt,
then no wonder you do not understand the arguments and outrage incited over ACA.

Please tell me you understand
the limits between federal govt and state jurisdiction to pass laws for itself (by citizens voting within that State)
vs. laws passed by Congress through federal govt where the citizens of the states did NOT get to vote on it.

Do you understand the difference this makes
when it comes to decisions about Health care, which used to be a personal liberty and private choice,
made on a federal level where the tax penalties are on individual citizens?

Do you understand the concept of depriving citizens of rights previously enjoyed,
but without going through ANY due process to prove that such citizens committed a crime that warrants losing freedom?

Do you understand this is why conservatives and even liberal prochoice Constitutionalists
like me are opposed to ACA on Constitutional grounds? I'm a prochoice Democrat, and I can see it is anti-choice and pushing a belief-based agenda through federal govt as a nationalized religion based on "health care as a right through govt" and excluding equal exercise of beliefs in natural rights and freedoms as the default, not govt.

Sorry if you cannot see or understand Constitutional beliefs as valid.

Your assessment of ACA as supported by Republicans
reminds me of people who insist that Muslims support Jihadist interpretations
of killing in the name of God, when they will tell you that runs totally contrary to their Islamic beliefs.

You haven't seen it? Well now you have ... the individual mandate, brought to you by those Librules over at the Heritage Foundation...

History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate 1989-2010 - Obamacare Health Care Laws - ProCon.org

I would link you directly to the Heritage Foundations healthcare plan, but it seems the link to that page is not working...

Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans

But essentially, ObamaCare was modeled on RomneyCare, and RomneyCare was modeled on the Heritage Foundation's healthcare plan.

The right loved the plan when Conservatives pitched the idea ... they hate it now because Obama passed it.

Hi Faun Yes I have already seen the Heritage plan that Dante and maybe others posted previously.

But still, I do not see any "pseudo/hybrid" mixes of private business with federal mandates
as created under ACA without a Constitutional Amendment that authorized the creation of this new authority.

Also the state insurance plan and previous attempts to pass such laws through Congress on a federal level
were SOUNDLY OPPOSED on Constitutional grounds.

How would you like this argument:
1. The fact that in the past gay people agreed to laws that only allowed straight couples to marry.
2. And some gay people VOCALLY OPPOSE gay marriage being endorsed through the state.

Are you going to say that since "SOME gay people oppose gay marriage"
then ALL GAY PEOPLE AGREE TO THAT????

The gay people I know may have gone along with straight-marriage only in the past,
but when enough support was finally organized to push and win cases, then they started objecting.

Does that mean this is a lie, they "really consent" as they did in the past,
because they didn't argue until now? And it is only POLITICAL that they object,
but they "really don't mind" and should put up with laws they don't agree with?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

That's like saying that chemo therapy is basically the same as cancer. A healthy person would never want to take the poison of chemo, but when you have cancer, it could save your life.

This nation has a deadly cancer that is eating away our liberty and our market economy, that cancer is the democrats.

 

[Moonglow]

The ACA was merely a move to supplant more profit into medical for profit care and the insurance industry has a steady income flow in one segment of their speculative business..

 

[Moonglow]

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

That's like saying that chemo therapy is basically the same as cancer. A healthy person would never want to take the poison of chemo, but when you have cancer, it could save your life.

This nation has a deadly cancer that is eating away our liberty and our market economy, that cancer is the democrats.

Now that is specific and to the point..

 

[emilynghiem]

I didn't think the GOP presented a plan. They want to keep things as is... forever. Why are they opposed to all people being covered. Is this not aq good thing? Health care should never be a privilege, if you care about the sanctity of life.

It depends on what you think the purpose of government is. If you think government is there to take care of us and provide us with our needs, then health care should be a priority for government. If you think government is there to protect our rights, and it's up to us to take care of ourselves, then government has no responsibility to provide us with health care, and no authority to dictate how we manage it ourselves.

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

1. I agree to push and support the GOP to separate and create private or party-run systems to manage these areas
by localized programs with direct accountability and create jobs and communities for Vets to train in the leadership.

2. The problem is the GOP is just as divided over whether to play along with the given politics
or to fight to reform it which takes more work, and not everyone agrees.

3. I propose to separate by party, so each party has more time and freedom to work out their own plans
for their membership to support, without pressure to compete with opposing parties. Let each fund their own.
That way they could better work out sustainable effective solutions to health care, vet, immigration and prison systems
by reverting the conflicting policies to parties to manage and develop separately with respect to their members' beliefs; and only keep the agreed parts and roles/programs under federal govt so this is uniform and reflects the public without conflict.

 

[emilynghiem]

I didn't think the GOP presented a plan. They want to keep things as is... forever. Why are they opposed to all people being covered. Is this not aq good thing? Health care should never be a privilege, if you care about the sanctity of life.

It depends on what you think the purpose of government is. If you think government is there to take care of us and provide us with our needs, then health care should be a priority for government. If you think government is there to protect our rights, and it's up to us to take care of ourselves, then government has no responsibility to provide us with health care, and no authority to dictate how we manage it ourselves.

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

No, the GOP is suffering from division, over whether to play the same Democrat politics to get the popular votes
and keep selling out to the same corporate interests; or to stand up for Constitutional principles even though this is demonized by the media as something bad to be opposed and is thus unpopular right now. The Tea Party is able to organize voters around the Constitutional base, despite being demonized in the media where many Republicans buy into that bad media rap, fear to lose elections, and undercut each other so the Democrats can take advantage either way.

Very selfish politics.

If more Democrats cared for Constitutional principle over party, they would work WITH Republicans, Libertarians, Greens and all parties to fix problems with govt
instead of abusing fear and conflict to try to win the most votes just have political influence.

Some of the GOP has fallen into this same habit of putting elections before principles,
so this is causing a dangerous split that is costing the whole country, in my opinion
as a Democrat and a Constitutionalist who cares about principles first before party.

If any Republicans are reading this, and know what I mean by Tea Party being denounced, please do not play into this division, but please work by all means possible to reach out and unite fellow members under the Constitution, include each other, resolve issues objections and conflicts, and quit excluding and ripping the membership apart blaming each other.

Please pull together because our country needs a strong unified Constitutional base among all citizens and parties, where Republicans, Libertarians, and also Progressives and Democrats join together under the Constitution first and quit this partisan exploitation of conflict.
Please. We cannot afford to be divided, we need all resources and hands on board
working together on agreed solutions!

 

[Vandalshandle]

You have got to give Obama credit for one thing. He has certainly succeeded in keeping the death panels hidden that Sarah and the other RW nuts have predicted. I have heard that they meet in an undisclosed location at midnight somewhere in central Montana.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

My health plan's simple enough, take a handfull of vitamins and supplements every morning (skip the Sabbath usually letting everything fully absorb and get used up,) and masturbate at least twice a day (upon rising, before retiring.) Am 43, no health issues, can't remember the last time I got sick, and have hardly any stress.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The ACA was merely a move to supplant more profit into medical for profit care and the insurance industry has a steady income flow in one segment of their speculative business..

Sort of, but it also makes sure that all profits go to selected concerns, those who are merged with the federal government. George Soros, the owned of the democratic party, is also a majority stock holder of Blue Cross. Coincidence? Hardly.

 

[emilynghiem]

You have got to give Obama credit for one thing. He has certainly succeeded in keeping the death panels hidden that Sarah and the other RW nuts have predicted. I have heard that they meet in an undisclosed location at midnight somewhere in central Montana.

Maybe this special panel came out for the Ebola outbreak?

Someone is apparently in charge of whether or not Black people receive drugs that White people are getting.
And if more Black people in Africa are dying, but the media and public outrage is focused on cases in the US.
What is that, racist or nationalist?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The GOP health plan, die early, leave a pretty corpse....

But be sure to vote for them before you kick off cuz you wouldn't want your kids to be any better off than you are now.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

You have got to give Obama credit for one thing. He has certainly succeeded in keeping the death panels hidden that Sarah and the other RW nuts have predicted. I have heard that they meet in an undisclosed location at midnight somewhere in central Montana.

Maybe this special panel came out for the Ebola outbreak?

Someone is apparently in charge of whether or not Black people receive drugs that White people are getting.
And if more Black people in Africa are dying, but the media and public outrage is focused on cases in the US.
What is that, racist or nationalist?

Thank you for a short and understandable post.

As long as most of the victims are black Africans, there are those who don't care.

Elsewhere on the board, some RW nutter wrote that the US has an epidemic. Two patients is not what I would call an epidemic but that's not what Fox is telling the faithful.

 

[emilynghiem]

The GOP health plan, die early, leave a pretty corpse....

But be sure to vote for them before you kick off cuz you wouldn't want your kids to be any better off than you are now.

Heck while you're at it,
quit voting or giving money to either party!

Tell leaders of both parties to take the money you've already invested
and create the health care system the members want.

How much has been invested?
6 billion on Obama's re-election alone?
Ask for that in credits toward a party-based system of insuring and proving for members.

Or ask for the 24 billion of taxmoney estimated it cost the public
over the federal shutdown in conflict over ACA and the budget.

24 billion divided by half
= 12 billion blamed on each side of the shutdown

That should be enough to start revamping
the VA system to create jobs to be run by vets and
look at providing services to the general public through those structures.

if unions can collectively bargain and go on strike
why not taxpayers, voters and party members
until we get what we want out of our party leaders and platforms?

We've invested how much money, time and effort? over how many years and how many election cycles?
Can't we ask for a health care system in return?

 

[emilynghiem]

You have got to give Obama credit for one thing. He has certainly succeeded in keeping the death panels hidden that Sarah and the other RW nuts have predicted. I have heard that they meet in an undisclosed location at midnight somewhere in central Montana.

Maybe this special panel came out for the Ebola outbreak?

Someone is apparently in charge of whether or not Black people receive drugs that White people are getting.
And if more Black people in Africa are dying, but the media and public outrage is focused on cases in the US.
What is that, racist or nationalist?

Thank you for a short and understandable post.

As long as most of the victims are black Africans, there are those who don't care.

Elsewhere on the board, some RW nutter wrote that the US has an epidemic. Two patients is not what I would call an epidemic but that's not what Fox is telling the faithful.

I guess we have become part of the African epidemic?
We are not so separated are we, but all affected.

Researching online, I found many American doctors and activists
have long adopted Liberia and these communities as their own.
We just didn't hear about it until now.

What one person complained about was why not enough
was done when Ebola broke out before, and only infected contained areas.
and only when it spread to "WEALTHY areas" (like US/Europe)
did people start pushing the more expensive drugs to be produced .

So they saw it as rich vs poor.
Either way we need to see both the good work going on that didn't get publicity it deserved,
along with the bad we didn't know was that serious until now.

The stories I read online were absolute humbling and uplifting at the same time.
So that is one good thing that has come out of this heightened awareness:

I found about solutions and heroic efforts coming out of Africa that
just inspire me as a model of what all people can do instead of waiting on govt.
So I see much more good coming out of this, for Africa and for the rest of the world
who are having to coordinate resources more effectively, than the bad that this going to cost us until this is contained.

Thanks Luddly!

 

[dblack]

It depends on what you think the purpose of government is. If you think government is there to take care of us and provide us with our needs, then health care should be a priority for government. If you think government is there to protect our rights, and it's up to us to take care of ourselves, then government has no responsibility to provide us with health care, and no authority to dictate how we manage it ourselves.

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

No, the GOP is suffering from division, over whether to play the same Democrat politics to get the popular votes
and keep selling out to the same corporate interests; or to stand up for Constitutional principles even though this is demonized by the media as something bad to be opposed and is thus unpopular right now. The Tea Party is able to organize voters around the Constitutional base, despite being demonized in the media where many Republicans buy into that bad media rap, fear to lose elections, and undercut each other so the Democrats can take advantage either way.

Very selfish politics.

If more Democrats cared for Constitutional principle over party, they would work WITH Republicans, Libertarians, Greens and all parties to fix problems with govt
instead of abusing fear and conflict to try to win the most votes just have political influence.

Some of the GOP has fallen into this same habit of putting elections before principles,
so this is causing a dangerous split that is costing the whole country, in my opinion
as a Democrat and a Constitutionalist who cares about principles first before party.

If any Republicans are reading this, and know what I mean by Tea Party being denounced, please do not play into this division, but please work by all means possible to reach out and unite fellow members under the Constitution, include each other, resolve issues objections and conflicts, and quit excluding and ripping the membership apart blaming each other.

Please pull together because our country needs a strong unified Constitutional base among all citizens and parties, where Republicans, Libertarians, and also Progressives and Democrats join together under the Constitution first and quit this partisan exploitation of conflict.
Please. We cannot afford to be divided, we need all resources and hands on board
working together on agreed solutions!

I've danced to this tune before. The Republican party is no home for libertarians. They only talk to us when they're not in power.

 

[emilynghiem]

Pretty sure 'right to life' is a right...

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

No, the GOP is suffering from division, over whether to play the same Democrat politics to get the popular votes
and keep selling out to the same corporate interests; or to stand up for Constitutional principles even though this is demonized by the media as something bad to be opposed and is thus unpopular right now. The Tea Party is able to organize voters around the Constitutional base, despite being demonized in the media where many Republicans buy into that bad media rap, fear to lose elections, and undercut each other so the Democrats can take advantage either way.

Very selfish politics.

If more Democrats cared for Constitutional principle over party, they would work WITH Republicans, Libertarians, Greens and all parties to fix problems with govt
instead of abusing fear and conflict to try to win the most votes just have political influence.

Some of the GOP has fallen into this same habit of putting elections before principles,
so this is causing a dangerous split that is costing the whole country, in my opinion
as a Democrat and a Constitutionalist who cares about principles first before party.

If any Republicans are reading this, and know what I mean by Tea Party being denounced, please do not play into this division, but please work by all means possible to reach out and unite fellow members under the Constitution, include each other, resolve issues objections and conflicts, and quit excluding and ripping the membership apart blaming each other.

Please pull together because our country needs a strong unified Constitutional base among all citizens and parties, where Republicans, Libertarians, and also Progressives and Democrats join together under the Constitution first and quit this partisan exploitation of conflict.
Please. We cannot afford to be divided, we need all resources and hands on board
working together on agreed solutions!

I've danced to this tune before. The Republican party is no home for libertarians. They only talk to us when they're not in power.

Well to be fair, the Democrats need to quit pimping the:
Black vote, Green vote, Pink women's vote, Pink peace vote, and Singlepayer health care vote, too!
Right now the wheel has hit the "Pink and Purple Triangle vote" which seems to be cashing in for the party.
All the other contributors and constituents seem to have bet all their money and lost it getting nothing in return.

If Republicans only have Libertarians and Tea Party to reconcile with, and they all believe in the Constitution that seems a heckuva lot easier to pull that act together than the rainbow of diversity the Democrats advertise as including but just use that to get candidates elected.
(so if it is any comfort to you, I think the Democrats are worse off and farther behind.)

If defending the Constitution is not enough to unite everyone, what can the Libertarians and Tea Party do to step up the game?

How is it going with connecting with Progressive leadership, such as with Ralph Nader and Ron Paul? Any way to use the Progressive push to unite the Libertarian and Tea Party independents on common Constitutional approaches to solutions?

What is missing, what's the next step, what can be done to refocus on a common goal?
What's the plan for health care, what about the Libertarian idea of just delegating
proportional resources to the states to handle their own policies and programs and quit trying to dictate through federal govt.

Do you think Libertarians, GOP and Tea Party would unite in pushing to
manage health care by state in order to respect people's beliefs about health care, free market and govt limits?
and then organize by party to cover the national level?

What about a Constitutional Convention? Could that help unify these Constitutional forces to work together?

 

[dblack]

Well, that gets right to confusion at the heart of this issue. Protecting our rights isn't the same thing as empowering us to exercise them. Protecting your right to life doesn't mean government is responsible for providing you everything you might need to live, just as protecting your right to free speech doesn't mean government must ensure your capability to speak.

Right so...

Why doesn't the GOP run in the next election to end Medicare, Medicaid and privatised the VA? That's getting the government out of Health.

Also better pull all funding from Ebola research and any other virus.

Just to be consistent.

Because they're basically the same as the Democrats.

No, the GOP is suffering from division, over whether to play the same Democrat politics to get the popular votes
and keep selling out to the same corporate interests; or to stand up for Constitutional principles even though this is demonized by the media as something bad to be opposed and is thus unpopular right now. The Tea Party is able to organize voters around the Constitutional base, despite being demonized in the media where many Republicans buy into that bad media rap, fear to lose elections, and undercut each other so the Democrats can take advantage either way.

Very selfish politics.

If more Democrats cared for Constitutional principle over party, they would work WITH Republicans, Libertarians, Greens and all parties to fix problems with govt
instead of abusing fear and conflict to try to win the most votes just have political influence.

Some of the GOP has fallen into this same habit of putting elections before principles,
so this is causing a dangerous split that is costing the whole country, in my opinion
as a Democrat and a Constitutionalist who cares about principles first before party.

If any Republicans are reading this, and know what I mean by Tea Party being denounced, please do not play into this division, but please work by all means possible to reach out and unite fellow members under the Constitution, include each other, resolve issues objections and conflicts, and quit excluding and ripping the membership apart blaming each other.

Please pull together because our country needs a strong unified Constitutional base among all citizens and parties, where Republicans, Libertarians, and also Progressives and Democrats join together under the Constitution first and quit this partisan exploitation of conflict.
Please. We cannot afford to be divided, we need all resources and hands on board
working together on agreed solutions!

I've danced to this tune before. The Republican party is no home for libertarians. They only talk to us when they're not in power.

Well to be fair, the Democrats need to quit pimping the:
Black vote, Green vote, Pink women's vote, Pink peace vote, and Singlepayer health care vote, too!
Right now the wheel has hit the "Pink and Purple Triangle vote" which seems to be cashing in for the party.
All the other contributors and constituents seem to have bet all their money and lost it getting nothing in return.

If Republicans only have Libertarians and Tea Party to reconcile with, and they all believe in the Constitution that seems a heckuva lot easier to pull that act together than the rainbow of diversity the Democrats advertise as including but just use that to get candidates elected.
(so if it is any comfort to you, I think the Democrats are worse off and farther behind.)

If defending the Constitution is not enough to unite everyone, what can the Libertarians and Tea Party do to step up the game?

How is it going with connecting with Progressive leadership, such as with Ralph Nader and Ron Paul? Any way to use the Progressive push to unite the Libertarian and Tea Party independents on common Constitutional approaches to solutions?

What is missing, what's the next step, what can be done to refocus on a common goal?
What's the plan for health care, what about the Libertarian idea of just delegating
proportional resources to the states to handle their own policies and programs and quit trying to dictate through federal govt.

Do you think Libertarians, GOP and Tea Party would unite in pushing to
manage health care by state in order to respect people's beliefs about health care, free market and govt limits?
and then organize by party to cover the national level?

What about a Constitutional Convention? Could that help unify these Constitutional forces to work together?

"If Republicans only have Libertarians and Tea Party to reconcile with, and they all believe in the Constitution that ..."

That's a big "if", and quite unrealistic from what I've seen. There are myriad factions just within the Tea Party, and when you include "moderate" Republicans you end up with just as many "mouths to feed" as the Democrats.

I think the key is to keep pushing both parties to either adopt policies that meaningfully limit government intrusion, or clearly reject them. The goal should be to either steer one of the existing parties back to constitutional government, or force them both to admit they have no intention of doing so.

 

[Henrik]

I think all who is in America should gain emergency care to a small cost. Those who won't be able to pay for it will be owe the state money. None should be obliged to take out health insurance.

A health insurance which is bit by bit state funded should be inserted and availbe to a small cost. This insurance should cover basic medical aid and care - All who is neccesary to keep people healthy.