From my experience, a LOT of the variance in SOP has to do with the number of people you are dealing with. When qualifying a battalion, that is simply how it is done because there are to many people that can cause a problem. When qualifying just a few, things go a LOT differently though it is still rather inane.I was in the field artillery, 18th attached to the 82nd Airborne in Fort Bragg. It matters not because the range SOP is the same for everyone. And having qualified at Fort Jackson, Fort Sill, Fort Bragg, and in Korea (we shot at a paper target with pictures of target silhouettes at 50 meters there), I can tell you the same SOP is in every Army base.That last paragraph I already agreed with earlier.If you had any sense you would stop talking. Soldiers are brought to the range for qualification in company and battery, sometimes battalion strength. They are rodded onto the range (I'm purposely using terms you don't know to illustrate a point), and then every move on the range is regimented and supervised. Once they approach the firing line, they are given opportunity to prepare their foxhole and hasty. Then at the same time, every soldier on the line is issued a two magazines and given specific instructions not to load them or to even TOUCH them by the range NCOIC. After firing, the magazines are policed and returned to storage. No soldier possesses their own magazines and if they did, they wouldn't be allowed on the firing range. Soldiers being rodded off the range are searched for brass and ammo or any other contraband that can't be removed from the range before. Every soldier is well aware they can be court martialed for any misconduct on the range.
So there's ZERO opportunity to inspect magazines prior to firing them. They are loaded by a detail of soldiers under the supervision of an NCO and they are returned, a count ensuring that EVERY MAGAZINE has been accounted for.
Moreover, you have NO IDEA how often weak springs are a factor in firing ranges. They are used daily, repeatedly, for weeks, months, and aren't thrown out until they're actually broken. They look something like this:
And another point, I served under Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, and no president has any influence on these policies. 420,000 Army soldiers have to qualify on these ranges every 6 months, and then there are the other branches of service and federal agencies....ALL OF THEM using these same magazines.
And finally, you miss the larger point. It's unbecoming of any military service member to criticize the marksmanship of a U.S. Army soldier. Somebody who's able to knock down 32-35 out of 40 targets that pop up unpredictably between 50 and 300 meters, giving only a few seconds to acquire, aim, and fire, is somebody that I trust on the battlefield to have my back.
This is what us real combat veterans believe.
So please stop talking. Everything you say is ignorance, and offensive at that.
Had you bothered to read more than the beginning I was stating that it is sad that the military treats the weapons so poorly. That the soldiers have no ability to maintain what they are using for range qualification is ridiculous to me. As far as being rodded go's it is an old phrase having to do with a q tip shoved up your dick to check for VD. It also refers to the brass rod inserted in the bore to make sure the weapon is empty. It has many other derivations, but those are the basics.
Don't ever presume that because I didn't serve I don't know anything. You will find it embarrassing.
BTW, aren't soldiers able to buy their own mags? PMAGs can be had for 12 bucks or so. Then they would have good mags for their use that they could maintain? Are there regs against having mags? I know there are for personal weapons, but does that extend to mags as well?
Finally, I am not into PC talk. The subject of marksmanship was brought up as a qualifier that that made him an expert and that his opinion carried more weight because of that which is absolute horseshit. That's why the subject of marksmanship came up in the first place.
And as I said, range time is heavily regulated by the range NCOIC, soldiers cannot bring their own magazines, not to be repetitive, but you seemed to miss that the first time. The reason for this is to exercise tight control and supervision on when soldiers possess live ammunition so that hundreds of soldiers can get through the process safely, up to a battalion a day. Every movement is controlled, right face, forward march, detail halt, one two! Stand at parade rest in front of your firing position but do not enter your fox hole until instructed by the range officer.
Once soldiers enter their foxholes, there are loaded magazines to their right. When instructed, they insert a magazine, release the bolt carrier, and wait, weapons pointed down range. Then when they're instructed, they rotate their selector switch from safe to semi and the range is now hot. Several NCO's pace behind the firing line supervising the soldiers, ensuring compliance with every command. All of this has a reason; accidents on the range are rare.
Are you getting the picture now?
Are you talking about basic training? I retired after 23 years in the Infantry. The only time we did as you say was in basic. Each Soldier uses their own magazines, they load them also. If you can't trust a Soldier on a range how are you going to trust them in combat when the carry a loaded weapon 24/7.
If you were not infantry then maybe you did it that way. I have construction engineers conduct a range as you say, but the Infantry does it a lot different.
The range is exactly as you said, not trusting soldiers. Too many accidents occurred and now they're all treated like incompetent babies. For real.
Not to argue but the SOP is not the same for everyone. I just retired a short time ago. I was a 1SG for 5 years. You are giving people the wrong idea about the military. Not all Soldiers are treated as babies on the range. Don't give people who haven't served wrong information. These people are taking your word for it as they haven't served and want to know how things are done.
My avatar picture is me. If you want I can give you more info about me to verify I know what I am talking about. Bottom line I am not a poser or keyboard warrior. I just want the correct info give to our friends here on USMB.
If you need proof of who I am that is me in my avatar.
There are STILL accidents though. Had a cop shoot himself because they did not clear the weapon correctly this year. Another round went through the back wall in class during an class on the M16. That many people something is bound to happen.
