Texas bans chaplains from its execution chamber

[Likkmee]

The state of Texas has banned all prison chaplains from its execution chamber, days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state could not execute an inmate without allowing a Buddhist chaplain into the death chamber with him.

The high court last week halted the execution of Patrick Murphy, a member of the infamous "Texas Seven," after Murphy claimed that the state was violating his religious rights by not allowing him to have a Buddhist chaplain in the room with him at the time of his scheduled death. The state only allows prison employees in the death chamber, and only Christian and Muslim clerics are employed with the state. During executions, a chaplain will often stand at the feet of the prisoner and rest a hand on his leg mouthing silent prayers.

The court stopped Murphy’s execution hours after it was scheduled to begin, ruling Texas could not execute him until his late appeal was considered unless the state provided a Buddhist spiritual adviser in the execution chamber. The ruling came less than two months after the same court decided against stopping the execution of a black prisoner in Alabama who requested a Muslim imam at his execution. Justice Brett Kavanaugh issued an opinion declaring that the exclusion of a Buddhist adviser was religious discrimination and proposed two alternatives for the Texas prison system: Don’t allow any chaplains into the execution chambers, or allow chaplains of all religions.
Texas bans chaplains from its execution chamber

And that is exactly how that works.

Did they happen to mention WHY they restrict admittance to the execution chamber to prison employees? Sounds to me like a policy that had a reason behind it.

I can understand why the Department of Corrections only has Christians and Muslims on their staff. It's not like funding is unlimited, and they probably don't have a lot of call for Buddhists.

No.

Prison employees have extensive training. It would be a liability. Prison chaplains have some pretty extensive training and are certified. It's not just about a spiritual adviser that can go to a death chamber and be a security risk.

What a nonsense. Do you live in fear someone could be a suicide bomber in a death chamber?

Neither you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on running a prison. You know who is? The Texas Department of Corrections. Absent any glaring evidence to the contrary, I think it's prudent to give them the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT know something we don't.

I'm sure !

 

[Cecilie1200]

The state of Texas has banned all prison chaplains from its execution chamber, days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state could not execute an inmate without allowing a Buddhist chaplain into the death chamber with him.

The high court last week halted the execution of Patrick Murphy, a member of the infamous "Texas Seven," after Murphy claimed that the state was violating his religious rights by not allowing him to have a Buddhist chaplain in the room with him at the time of his scheduled death. The state only allows prison employees in the death chamber, and only Christian and Muslim clerics are employed with the state. During executions, a chaplain will often stand at the feet of the prisoner and rest a hand on his leg mouthing silent prayers.

The court stopped Murphy’s execution hours after it was scheduled to begin, ruling Texas could not execute him until his late appeal was considered unless the state provided a Buddhist spiritual adviser in the execution chamber. The ruling came less than two months after the same court decided against stopping the execution of a black prisoner in Alabama who requested a Muslim imam at his execution. Justice Brett Kavanaugh issued an opinion declaring that the exclusion of a Buddhist adviser was religious discrimination and proposed two alternatives for the Texas prison system: Don’t allow any chaplains into the execution chambers, or allow chaplains of all religions.
Texas bans chaplains from its execution chamber

And that is exactly how that works.

Did they happen to mention WHY they restrict admittance to the execution chamber to prison employees? Sounds to me like a policy that had a reason behind it.

I can understand why the Department of Corrections only has Christians and Muslims on their staff. It's not like funding is unlimited, and they probably don't have a lot of call for Buddhists.

No.

Prison employees have extensive training. It would be a liability. Prison chaplains have some pretty extensive training and are certified. It's not just about a spiritual adviser that can go to a death chamber and be a security risk.

What a nonsense. Do you live in fear someone could be a suicide bomber in a death chamber?

Neither you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on running a prison. You know who is? The Texas Department of Corrections. Absent any glaring evidence to the contrary, I think it's prudent to give them the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT know something we don't.

I'm sure !

Sorry, but your completely irrelevant and unrelated graphic tells me that you only THINK you're sure, and you're actually clueless.

Do let me know if you figure out something to say that is meaningful to the conversation, won't you?

 

[zaangalewa]

The state of Texas has banned all prison chaplains from its execution chamber, days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state could not execute an inmate without allowing a Buddhist chaplain into the death chamber with him.

The high court last week halted the execution of Patrick Murphy, a member of the infamous "Texas Seven," after Murphy claimed that the state was violating his religious rights by not allowing him to have a Buddhist chaplain in the room with him at the time of his scheduled death. The state only allows prison employees in the death chamber, and only Christian and Muslim clerics are employed with the state. During executions, a chaplain will often stand at the feet of the prisoner and rest a hand on his leg mouthing silent prayers.

The court stopped Murphy’s execution hours after it was scheduled to begin, ruling Texas could not execute him until his late appeal was considered unless the state provided a Buddhist spiritual adviser in the execution chamber. The ruling came less than two months after the same court decided against stopping the execution of a black prisoner in Alabama who requested a Muslim imam at his execution. Justice Brett Kavanaugh issued an opinion declaring that the exclusion of a Buddhist adviser was religious discrimination and proposed two alternatives for the Texas prison system: Don’t allow any chaplains into the execution chambers, or allow chaplains of all religions.
Texas bans chaplains from its execution chamber

And that is exactly how that works.

Did they happen to mention WHY they restrict admittance to the execution chamber to prison employees? Sounds to me like a policy that had a reason behind it.

I can understand why the Department of Corrections only has Christians and Muslims on their staff. It's not like funding is unlimited, and they probably don't have a lot of call for Buddhists.

No.

Prison employees have extensive training. It would be a liability. Prison chaplains have some pretty extensive training and are certified. It's not just about a spiritual adviser that can go to a death chamber and be a security risk.

What a nonsense. Do you live in fear someone could be a suicide bomber in a death chamber?

Neither you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on running a prison.

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

You know who is? The Texas Department of Corrections.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Absent any glaring evidence to the contrary, I think it's prudent to give them the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT know something we don't.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?



Papa du siehst so traurig aus, Papa was ist mit dir los?
Kind sei still und hilf mir beim Sammeln und
frag nicht als wärst du schon groß!
Guck mal Papa ich hab uns ein Schiff aus alten Kanistern gebaut.
Damit segeln wir los durch Welle und Wind bevor
noch der Morgen graut.
Ach Kind wie soll denn dein Schiffchen nur schwimmen und viel zu
klein ist es auch. Das Meer liegt am anderen Ende der Welt, geh hol
mir den Reifenschlauch! Den will ich versuchen zu flicken und dann
mit etwas Glück zu verkaufen. Dann hast du heut was zu essen
mein Kind und ich hab was zu saufen.
Mensch Papa siehst du die Wellen denn nicht an
unserem Ufer sich brechen? Ein Segel aus Sacktuch hab ich gesetzt
in See können wir morgen früh stechen. Die Distel, die Ratte,
den Floh nehmen wir mit und den Hund und die Katz und den
Wurm. Den Reifen nehmen wir als Rettungsring bei Mann über
Bord im Sturm.
Still jetzt ich will nichts mehr hören davon es gibt hier kein Schiff
und kein Meer. Und kein Haus und kein Bett und kein Geld und kein Glück
hör auf zu träumen! Komm her! Und hilf mir jetzt leere Flaschen zu suchen
wir kriegen darauf etwas Pfand, ja das reicht dann vielleicht für
'ne heiße Suppe, vergiss dein Schlaraffenland!
Die Flaschen Papa die können wir brauchen ich hab da eine Idee, wir
nehmen sie mit und wir lassen sie schwimmen draußen auf hoher See! Und in
jede tun wir nen Zettel hinein und ist sie lange geschwommen ja
dann findet sie einer und liest unsre Post: Hallo wir sind wir
kommen!

Konstantin Wecker

 

[Disir]

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

Did you learn anything about liability? No. And do you know why? Because you spoke with the prisoners.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Actually, Texas has been at the front of the line in getting rid of pseudo-science that the rest of the US is a bit behind the times on. They were pushing for sentencing reform before it hit the front pages and became a cover for available cash. I'm telling you that as so not a Texas fan. They cannot drive for shit.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?

You have demonstrated why only trained people are allowed in. I am against the death penalty. To ask another human being to participate.............is too much for a random.

 

[zaangalewa]

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

Did you learn anything about liability?

¿liability? ... strange ...

No.

No? Why no?

And do you know why?

No.

Because you spoke with the prisoners.

It was a project of a German university in combination with the prison authorities of a German federal state under control of a professor for psychology.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Actually, Texas has been at the front of the line in getting rid of pseudo-science that the rest of the US is a bit behind the times on.

One moment please. Texas is the US-state where people are driving in climatized cars from one climatized garage to the next climatized garage - what makes this nature boys to experts for the fashion of Buffalo Bill. By the way: The Texanian George W. Bush (a man from the East coast of Texas) was responsible for the most expensive barbecue Germany ever had made.

They were pushing for sentencing reform before it hit the front pages and became a cover for available cash. I'm telling you that as so not a Texas fan. They cannot drive for shit.

No idea what you like to say with this words.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?

You have demonstrated why only trained people are allowed in. I am against the death penalty.

Wonderful. So why do you think Texas makes everything in the right way? Beause you live in Texas?

To ask another human being to participate.............is too much for a random.

To participate in what? Let me repeat - I said:

"I see this "mit brennender Sorge" - with burning anxiety. A human being should not be executed at all. Death penalty is definitely wrong. But if a state misuses the own might to execute a human being, then a consecrated man or woman from the own religion should be on the side of the doomed person. That's in my eyes a human right."

 

[Disir]

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

Did you learn anything about liability?

¿liability? ... strange ...

No.

No? Why no?

And do you know why?

No.

Because you spoke with the prisoners.

It was a project of a German university in combination with the prison authorities of a German federal state under control of a professor for psychology.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Actually, Texas has been at the front of the line in getting rid of pseudo-science that the rest of the US is a bit behind the times on.

One moment please. Texas is the US-state where people are driving in climatized cars from one climatized garage to the next climatized garage - what makes this nature boys to experts for the fashion of Buffalo Bill. By the way: The Texanian George W. Bush (a man from the East coast of Texas) was responsible for the most expensive barbecue Germany ever had made.

They were pushing for sentencing reform before it hit the front pages and became a cover for available cash. I'm telling you that as so not a Texas fan. They cannot drive for shit.

No idea what you like to say with this words.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?

You have demonstrated why only trained people are allowed in. I am against the death penalty.

Wonderful. So why do you think Texas makes everything in the right way? Beause you live in Texas?

To ask another human being to participate.............is too much for a random.

To participate in what? Let me repeat - I said:

"I see this "mit brennender Sorge" - with burning anxiety. A human being should not be executed at all. Death penalty is definitely wrong. But if a state misuses the own might to execute a human being, then a consecrated man or woman from the own religion should be on the side of the doomed person. That's in my eyes a human right."

That's right. You're a troll. I forgot about you.

What's going down in Germany is probably not going down in Texas. Different regulations and rules and things like the 8th amendment.

This is going to be a wasted effort but, Texas has been pushing to have specific standards set for forensic science to combat wrongful convictions. I told you in my last post that I am not a Texas fan.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The state of Texas has banned all prison chaplains from its execution chamber, days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state could not execute an inmate without allowing a Buddhist chaplain into the death chamber with him.

The high court last week halted the execution of Patrick Murphy, a member of the infamous "Texas Seven," after Murphy claimed that the state was violating his religious rights by not allowing him to have a Buddhist chaplain in the room with him at the time of his scheduled death. The state only allows prison employees in the death chamber, and only Christian and Muslim clerics are employed with the state. During executions, a chaplain will often stand at the feet of the prisoner and rest a hand on his leg mouthing silent prayers.

The court stopped Murphy’s execution hours after it was scheduled to begin, ruling Texas could not execute him until his late appeal was considered unless the state provided a Buddhist spiritual adviser in the execution chamber. The ruling came less than two months after the same court decided against stopping the execution of a black prisoner in Alabama who requested a Muslim imam at his execution. Justice Brett Kavanaugh issued an opinion declaring that the exclusion of a Buddhist adviser was religious discrimination and proposed two alternatives for the Texas prison system: Don’t allow any chaplains into the execution chambers, or allow chaplains of all religions.
Texas bans chaplains from its execution chamber

And that is exactly how that works.

Did they happen to mention WHY they restrict admittance to the execution chamber to prison employees? Sounds to me like a policy that had a reason behind it.

I can understand why the Department of Corrections only has Christians and Muslims on their staff. It's not like funding is unlimited, and they probably don't have a lot of call for Buddhists.

No.

Prison employees have extensive training. It would be a liability. Prison chaplains have some pretty extensive training and are certified. It's not just about a spiritual adviser that can go to a death chamber and be a security risk.

What a nonsense. Do you live in fear someone could be a suicide bomber in a death chamber?

Neither you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on running a prison.

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

You know who is? The Texas Department of Corrections.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Absent any glaring evidence to the contrary, I think it's prudent to give them the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT know something we don't.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?



Papa du siehst so traurig aus, Papa was ist mit dir los?
Kind sei still und hilf mir beim Sammeln und
frag nicht als wärst du schon groß!
Guck mal Papa ich hab uns ein Schiff aus alten Kanistern gebaut.
Damit segeln wir los durch Welle und Wind bevor
noch der Morgen graut.
Ach Kind wie soll denn dein Schiffchen nur schwimmen und viel zu
klein ist es auch. Das Meer liegt am anderen Ende der Welt, geh hol
mir den Reifenschlauch! Den will ich versuchen zu flicken und dann
mit etwas Glück zu verkaufen. Dann hast du heut was zu essen
mein Kind und ich hab was zu saufen.
Mensch Papa siehst du die Wellen denn nicht an
unserem Ufer sich brechen? Ein Segel aus Sacktuch hab ich gesetzt
in See können wir morgen früh stechen. Die Distel, die Ratte,
den Floh nehmen wir mit und den Hund und die Katz und den
Wurm. Den Reifen nehmen wir als Rettungsring bei Mann über
Bord im Sturm.
Still jetzt ich will nichts mehr hören davon es gibt hier kein Schiff
und kein Meer. Und kein Haus und kein Bett und kein Geld und kein Glück
hör auf zu träumen! Komm her! Und hilf mir jetzt leere Flaschen zu suchen
wir kriegen darauf etwas Pfand, ja das reicht dann vielleicht für
'ne heiße Suppe, vergiss dein Schlaraffenland!
Die Flaschen Papa die können wir brauchen ich hab da eine Idee, wir
nehmen sie mit und wir lassen sie schwimmen draußen auf hoher See! Und in
jede tun wir nen Zettel hinein und ist sie lange geschwommen ja
dann findet sie einer und liest unsre Post: Hallo wir sind wir
kommen!

Konstantin Wecker

Well, that was an enormous, space-wasting load of blather.

Let's boil it down to the essentials. Basically, you just said, "I know everything about how prisons are and should be run, because I talked to the inmates AND I read a lot of propaganda from the foreign media about US prisons."

Thank you. You're dismissed.

 

[zaangalewa]

Did they happen to mention WHY they restrict admittance to the execution chamber to prison employees? Sounds to me like a policy that had a reason behind it.

I can understand why the Department of Corrections only has Christians and Muslims on their staff. It's not like funding is unlimited, and they probably don't have a lot of call for Buddhists.

No.

Prison employees have extensive training. It would be a liability. Prison chaplains have some pretty extensive training and are certified. It's not just about a spiritual adviser that can go to a death chamber and be a security risk.

What a nonsense. Do you live in fear someone could be a suicide bomber in a death chamber?

Neither you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on running a prison.

When I was a student I was in a group of people, who spoke with prisoners about themes they liked to speak with us. In this context I learned a little about prisons. I do not see your problem.

You know who is? The Texas Department of Corrections.

Sorry to have to correct you - but as far as I know Texas worldwide is seen as one of the most incompetent countries in context peniteniary system. This means not that the prison guards are doing not a very good job too within the crazy framework of the US-American and Texanian society. A problem could perhaps be how discouraged are your political leaders and judges. 5% of the world population and 25% of all world prisoners - so for sure something is wrong in your country.

Absent any glaring evidence to the contrary, I think it's prudent to give them the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT know something we don't.

To violate unalienable human rights has nothing to do with to know or not to know - nor has it to do with a question in context "amateur vs professional". Noahs arch was made from laymen, the Titanic from professionals. By the way: Prison guards and policemen are often first "social workers" too - but do they learn something about?



Papa du siehst so traurig aus, Papa was ist mit dir los?
Kind sei still und hilf mir beim Sammeln und
frag nicht als wärst du schon groß!
Guck mal Papa ich hab uns ein Schiff aus alten Kanistern gebaut.
Damit segeln wir los durch Welle und Wind bevor
noch der Morgen graut.
Ach Kind wie soll denn dein Schiffchen nur schwimmen und viel zu
klein ist es auch. Das Meer liegt am anderen Ende der Welt, geh hol
mir den Reifenschlauch! Den will ich versuchen zu flicken und dann
mit etwas Glück zu verkaufen. Dann hast du heut was zu essen
mein Kind und ich hab was zu saufen.
Mensch Papa siehst du die Wellen denn nicht an
unserem Ufer sich brechen? Ein Segel aus Sacktuch hab ich gesetzt
in See können wir morgen früh stechen. Die Distel, die Ratte,
den Floh nehmen wir mit und den Hund und die Katz und den
Wurm. Den Reifen nehmen wir als Rettungsring bei Mann über
Bord im Sturm.
Still jetzt ich will nichts mehr hören davon es gibt hier kein Schiff
und kein Meer. Und kein Haus und kein Bett und kein Geld und kein Glück
hör auf zu träumen! Komm her! Und hilf mir jetzt leere Flaschen zu suchen
wir kriegen darauf etwas Pfand, ja das reicht dann vielleicht für
'ne heiße Suppe, vergiss dein Schlaraffenland!
Die Flaschen Papa die können wir brauchen ich hab da eine Idee, wir
nehmen sie mit und wir lassen sie schwimmen draußen auf hoher See! Und in
jede tun wir nen Zettel hinein und ist sie lange geschwommen ja
dann findet sie einer und liest unsre Post: Hallo wir sind wir
kommen!

Konstantin Wecker

Well, that was an enormous, space-wasting load of blather.

Is it?

Let's [/uote]

Who is "us"?

[Quiote]boil it down to the essentials. Basically, you just said, "I know everything about how prisons are and should be run,"

I never said anything in this way. I spoke about unalienable human rights. "You" use this expression for example in your declaration of independence. For me natural human rights are not created from human beings - human beings are only able to try to understand this god given rights and are only able to accept it. You could call me a damned stubborn colonist in questions of real human rights.

because I talked to the inmates AND I read a lot of propaganda from the foreign media about US prisons."

Thank you. You're dismissed.

What do you think about to reduce the numbers of prisoners and the time in prison too? And without any doubt you have to abolish death penalty. If not today then tomorrow. But as long as people have to die, because death penalty unfortunatelly still exists, every prisoner has the right on spiritual aid in the moment of death from an sacred (authorized) person of the own religious community.

 

[beautress]

Justice Brett Kavanaugh issued an opinion declaring that the exclusion of a Buddhist adviser was religious discrimination and proposed two alternatives for the Texas prison system: Don’t allow any chaplains into the execution chambers, or allow chaplains of all religions.

By proxy, Kavanaugh can extend this same ruling to Congressional sessions, where a christian preacher foists prayer for every kick off
~S~

Does that thrill you, sparky.

 

[beautress]

It is a first amendment issue

A person should be allowed a chaplain of his religion, not the states chosen religion

I agree with you, rightwinger.