Tesla Bankruptcy Looms!

[elektra]

Why are you against electric cars? They might hurt your oil stocks?

Electric cars increase oil stocks. It requires more energy to charge an electric car, no matter where that energy comes from, it is not a direct source as is pouring gasoline in my tank. We will get to pump oil to make you charging station. We will pump oil to make your secondary charging station where you work. We will pump oil to manufacture batteries. Batteries at your home that will charge while you are away. Batteries for your car. It all takes oil to be made. Of course you will now be using all the energy your solar panels produce to charge your car at night. So we will get to sell you more energy. We will also sell more energy to your place of work. That will come from fossil fuels or Nuclear power. There is no way around it, you buying an electric car raises the price of all stocks. The stock market benefits from building more stuff. You buying lousy electric cars ensures we will be using oil to build whatever the government brainwashes you into buying, to save the earth. Yes, to save the earth you must buy a lot more stuff. Technically, you are a real sucker. Sorry to be blunt, but how else can I put it. To save the Earth you must destroy it, buy buying more stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff.

 

[Yarddog]

I can carry an extra ten gallons if need be...but those batteries are kinda heavy.

EV Battery Energy Density To Be At Parity With Gasoline By 2045, But That Misses The Point

28 years? Hell, most of us won't be around. By that time they'll have man flying around like Superman. Won't need Teslas.

You'll still be around Hoss, we need you to kick some ass then.

 

[elektra]

OK, You run out of gasoline in the middle of that off ramp, what good is a jump going to do you? Lordy, lordy, at least use a smidgen of logic when you post.

If I run out of gas on the, "off ramp", you can bet your ass nobody is going to risk their life or mine, or others by showing up in an electric tow truck.

 

[Old Rocks]

True, but we are, or at least I was, referring to subsidies for cars, not fuel or power. Tesla sales would plummet if the buyers were not getting tax payer money to help purchase the cars they produce.

As would everything currently powered by highly govt subsidized fossil fuels. It's you - clearly, desperately, deliberately, repeatedly - missing the point.

The point is Tesla would have failed long ago without the government giving money to people to buy their cars. Go ahead and end subsidies for fossil fuels. Then watch the cost of driving your car go up, but not enough to convince you to buy a Tesla. Sorry sport, you took a tangent and ran into a brick wall.

Now $7500 might make a difference when you are buying a Leaf or a Bolt. But a $100,000 to 160,000 auto? Not really.

Well if that is your position, then you stepped into a shit hole with both feet. Who spends $100,000 to $160,000 on a car? Yep, those people are millionaires getting those subsidies. So the subsidies for Tesla is very regressive.
Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies
Tesla buyers also get a $7,500 federal income tax credit and a $2,500 rebate from the state of California. The federal government has capped the $7,500 credit at a total of 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer; Tesla is about a quarter of the way to that limit. In all, Tesla buyers have qualified for an estimated $284 million in federal tax incentives and collected more than $38 million in California rebates.

Tesla has sold over 180,000 vehicles so far, so that rebate is just about gone.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, You run out of gasoline in the middle of that off ramp, what good is a jump going to do you? Lordy, lordy, at least use a smidgen of logic when you post.

If I run out of gas on the, "off ramp", you can bet your ass nobody is going to risk their life or mine, or others by showing up in an electric tow truck.

What? What difference does it make as to whether the tow truck is a diesel, gas powered, or an EV? Given what Tesla and others, including Cummins, are doing, in a decade there is a good chance it would be an EV.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

True, but we are, or at least I was, referring to subsidies for cars, not fuel or power. Tesla sales would plummet if the buyers were not getting tax payer money to help purchase the cars they produce.

As would everything currently powered by highly govt subsidized fossil fuels. It's you - clearly, desperately, deliberately, repeatedly - missing the point.

The point is Tesla would have failed long ago without the government giving money to people to buy their cars. Go ahead and end subsidies for fossil fuels. Then watch the cost of driving your car go up, but not enough to convince you to buy a Tesla. Sorry sport, you took a tangent and ran into a brick wall.

Now $7500 might make a difference when you are buying a Leaf or a Bolt. But a $100,000 to 160,000 auto? Not really.

Well if that is your position, then you stepped into a shit hole with both feet. Who spends $100,000 to $160,000 on a car? Yep, those people are millionaires getting those subsidies. So the subsidies for Tesla is very regressive.
Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies
Tesla buyers also get a $7,500 federal income tax credit and a $2,500 rebate from the state of California. The federal government has capped the $7,500 credit at a total of 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer; Tesla is about a quarter of the way to that limit. In all, Tesla buyers have qualified for an estimated $284 million in federal tax incentives and collected more than $38 million in California rebates.

Tesla has sold over 180,000 vehicles so far, so that rebate is just about gone.

Yep, and California wants to pick up the Federal subsidy and more. People in Callie are looking to subsidize buyers of Tesla EVs to the tune of another $3billion.
It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla
The California state Assembly passed a $3-billion subsidy program for electric vehicles, dwarfing the existing program. The bill is now in the state Senate. If passed, it will head to Governor Jerry Brown, who has not yet indicated if he’d sign what is ostensibly an effort to put EV sales into high gear, but below the surface appears to be a Tesla bailout.

 

[elektra]

Tesla has sold over 180,000 vehicles so far, so that rebate is just about gone.

Tesla has lost over $1 billion dollars, just this year. Tesla has lost at least $100 million dollars every quarter since it began business. That is at least 18 quarters in a row! Well over $2 billion dollars. Funny thing is, Tesla's building is right next to Solyndra.

 

[Viacheslav]

Why are you against electric cars? They might hurt your oil stocks?

Tesla plans to produce half a million cars a year in 2018, Tesla 3 has a battery of 50-70 kWh, and for half a million Tesla 3 you need installed power 25GW and this without taking into account the energy loss for charging. Only one Tesla will increase power consumption by at least 25GWh for example
installed power Grand Coulee Dam is 7GWh.

 

[Taz]

Actually, the imbecile is you, since my electricity comes from hydro power. Must be getting harder to find qualified staff here.

Wow, you are one of those who gets to use the 2.4% of the electricity generated by hydroelectric power. How about the rest of the world doofus? Do they not count? It is sure getting harder to find qualified posters around here, more and more they are uneducated morons, like you.

It'll take until the next generation when there aren't so many doofuses who are against renewable power. Young people aren't so afraid of change, especially when it's for the better.

No, it will take until there is a renewable power source that is more efficient than the fossil fuel powered system they wish to replace. Take a look at biofuels. They sound great on paper but the reality is they cost ten times more than the fossil fuel they are replacing, and they USE fossil fuel in their creation. That is what is known as reality.

As I added to my post, people are already trying out car paint that acts as a solar panel. Don't be afraid. There, there.

I have a solar system silly boy. You? I also have a water wheel that is in use when the creek isn't frozen over. You? I have been a proponent of USEFUL renewable power systems for probably longer than you've been alive. What I despise are idiots who claim that wind power is the "newest" and bestest, when they were abandoned decades ago in favor of the more efficient fossil fuel power.

Let me put it in simple terms so you can understand, you would not be able to live in your cushy apartment, tapping away on your computer if your sole power source were wind and solar. I am happy that you get you power from hydroelectric, that is one of the best power systems that has ever been developed, but the overwhelming majority of the world doesn't get to.

I have a solar system, a water wheel AND a wind turbine, as well as getting the rest of my energy for hydro. You lose nimrod. Now go ban yourself for being a rude, pompous jackass. A week will do for this time.

 

[Taz]

Why are you against electric cars? They might hurt your oil stocks?

Electric cars increase oil stocks. It requires more energy to charge an electric car, no matter where that energy comes from, it is not a direct source as is pouring gasoline in my tank. We will get to pump oil to make you charging station. We will pump oil to make your secondary charging station where you work. We will pump oil to manufacture batteries. Batteries at your home that will charge while you are away. Batteries for your car. It all takes oil to be made. Of course you will now be using all the energy your solar panels produce to charge your car at night. So we will get to sell you more energy. We will also sell more energy to your place of work. That will come from fossil fuels or Nuclear power. There is no way around it, you buying an electric car raises the price of all stocks. The stock market benefits from building more stuff. You buying lousy electric cars ensures we will be using oil to build whatever the government brainwashes you into buying, to save the earth. Yes, to save the earth you must buy a lot more stuff. Technically, you are a real sucker. Sorry to be blunt, but how else can I put it. To save the Earth you must destroy it, buy buying more stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff.

I haven't bought an electric car yet because they don't make sense economically or length-of-trip-wise, for where I live. It'll take another decade or two for them to get it all right. But they are for sure on the right path. They are working on car paint that acts as a solar panel, which for a lot of people, will be enough, ex: drive to work, leave it outside all day, drive home..

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yep, and California wants to pick up the Federal subsidy and more. People in Callie are looking to subsidize buyers of Tesla EVs to the tune of another $3billion.
It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla
The California state Assembly passed a $3-billion subsidy program for electric vehicles, dwarfing the existing program. The bill is now in the state Senate. If passed, it will head to Governor Jerry Brown, who has not yet indicated if he’d sign what is ostensibly an effort to put EV sales into high gear, but below the surface appears to be a Tesla bailout.

While I agree with the author there in that the rich stand to benefit too much from this deal, that's always appeared to be Musk's business strategy. But if the people of CA prefer the potential long term benefits over the current cost that's up to them. Democracy. Horrors.

 

[Taz]

Why are you against electric cars? They might hurt your oil stocks?

Tesla plans to produce half a million cars a year in 2018, Tesla 3 has a battery of 50-70 kWh, and for half a million Tesla 3 you need installed power 25GW and this without taking into account the energy loss for charging. Only one Tesla will increase power consumption by at least 25GWh for example
installed power Grand Coulee Dam is 7GWh.

People are already experimenting with things like car paint that acts like a solar panel. Sure, the math doesn't add up now, but they're working on it, not just complaining like you folks here.

 

[Viacheslav]

People are already experimenting with things like car paint that acts like a solar panel..

It’ll never fly becouse effective area will not be more than two-three square meters, and if the paint has an efficiency of 30% (which is very much), then the cars will have "the installed power of solar charging" 600 -900Wh

Sure, the math doesn't add up now, but they're working on it, not just complaining like you folks here.

I agree and I "don't mind" an electric vehicle, Tesla or renewable energy sources, I'm just trying to say that an electric car isn't a threat to the "oil reserves".

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Yep, and California wants to pick up the Federal subsidy and more. People in Callie are looking to subsidize buyers of Tesla EVs to the tune of another $3billion.
It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla
The California state Assembly passed a $3-billion subsidy program for electric vehicles, dwarfing the existing program. The bill is now in the state Senate. If passed, it will head to Governor Jerry Brown, who has not yet indicated if he’d sign what is ostensibly an effort to put EV sales into high gear, but below the surface appears to be a Tesla bailout.

While I agree with the author there in that the rich stand to benefit too much from this deal, that's always appeared to be Musk's business strategy. But if the people of CA prefer the potential long term benefits over the current cost that's up to them. Democracy. Horrors.

Hey, I got no issue with Callie continuing to prop up Tesla. But lets see what happens to Tesla Inc in an economic downturn, when money is tight. I think Musk is a genius and a visionary, but Tesla has survived on Government money, extraordinary low interest rates, and low inflation. None of those things will continue forever, and it remains to be seen if Tesla can survive with out all 3.

 

[Taz]

People are already experimenting with things like car paint that acts like a solar panel..

It’ll never fly becouse effective area will not be more than two-three square meters, and if the paint has an efficiency of 30% (which is very much), then the cars will have "the installed power of solar charging" 600 -900Wh

Sure, the math doesn't add up now, but they're working on it, not just complaining like you folks here.

I agree and I "don't mind" an electric vehicle, Tesla or renewable energy sources, I'm just trying to say that an electric car isn't a threat to the "oil reserves".

Sure, not now, but as time goes on, less and less people will be paying for gas, which won't help the price at the pump, and it'll be less and less profitable to explore for gas, because all the easy pickings have already been taken, well, except for those stinky arabs, lol.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

People are already experimenting with things like car paint that acts like a solar panel..

It’ll never fly becouse effective area will not be more than two-three square meters, and if the paint has an efficiency of 30% (which is very much), then the cars will have "the installed power of solar charging" 600 -900Wh

Sure, the math doesn't add up now, but they're working on it, not just complaining like you folks here.

I agree and I "don't mind" an electric vehicle, Tesla or renewable energy sources, I'm just trying to say that an electric car isn't a threat to the "oil reserves".

Sure, not now, but as time goes on, less and less people will be paying for gas, which won't help the price at the pump, and it'll be less and less profitable to explore for gas, because all the easy pickings have already been taken, well, except for those stinky arabs, lol.

Ultimately you will be correct, fewer people will be using gas because fossil fuels are finite. However you, nor anybody else can’t predict exactly when that will occur. Can we both agree it is decades in the future?

 

[Old Rocks]

No, I cannot agree at all. You see, the development of the fast charging glass batteries is going much faster than expected. In less than a decade, the EV's will be less costly than the ICE's, as well as faster and more dependable.

 

[Viacheslav]

No, I cannot agree at all. You see, the development of the fast charging glass batteries is going much faster than expected. In less than a decade, the EV's will be less costly than the ICE's, as well as faster and more dependable.

it is very likely that EV will be less than the ICE, but if the number of EVs increases not less than one million a year (this is just a plan for only one Tesla in 2020), it needs to increase the installed "real" power by at least 50 GWh per year. And without "fossil" energy this is unsolvable.

 

[Old Rocks]

Viacheslav, we have an area hundreds of miles wide from Texas, through the mid-West to the Dakotas and Eastern Montana that has prime wind generation potential. Put in the grids, and we can easily supply that amount just with wind. Our Southwest and Texas has huge solar potential. All it takes is putting in a grid, and there is profit to be made, they will build the solar and turbines.

WINDExchange: U.S. Installed and Potential Wind Power Capacity and Generation

 

[Old Rocks]

Notable Statistics
In 2016, the United States solar market produced these key figures:

• The U.S. solar market nearly doubled its capacity in 2016 compared to results from 2015.
• Solar ranked as the #1 source of new electric generating capacity additions.
• Non-residential PV was up 49% from 2015.
• For Q2 2017, U.S. solar added 2.4 GW of capacity, making it the second-largest second quarter in history.

The Emerging United States Solar Market | Seeking Alpha

As the demand for electricity grows with the sale of more and more EV's, you will see more individual households installing residential PV solar in 5 kw and 10 kw packages in the US. That will take care of some of the demand. At the same time, I think that we are going to see and explosion of PV mounted on the roofs of warehouses, malls, industrial, and commercial businesses. A source of income for the businesses, and a source of generation for the utilities for which they do not have to pay the maintenance or installation bill.