Terrorism equals a WAR forever

[Nightwish]

Yea, its real simple to negotiate with them. If we all convert to Islam, they will be happy. Otherwise, forget it.

Were you under the impression that all terrorists are Muslims? Or that all Muslim terrorists are radical Islamists? You would be wrong on both counts.

And you cant even begin to compare the arrogant British to our Marines, and Army, Navy and Air Force.

Congratulations, you missed the point by as wide a margin as it could have possibly been missed. Instead of just seeking every possible opportunity to say something the opposite of what I've said, because you probably perceive me as a leftist enemy Dem (I'm not, I'm a centrist who dislikes the Dems almost as much as the Repubs), why don't you instead take the time to read what I actually wrote, and take a moment to form your own thoughts, rather than asking yourself, "What would the [insert GOP shill] say?"

 

[Gunny]

If you think that treating terrorism as a military problem is the best way to go, then you're probably part of the problem. Too damn many people sleeping in this country.

Y'know .... you had my interest piqued until you had to go and insult MtnBiker for daring disagree with your wonderful assessment.

Your argument is that we need to figure out how to un-brainwash an entire culture that is backwards-assed to ours, and one of its basic tenets is that we are evil, not to be trusted, but to be feared.

Add to that the Islamic fundamentalist sub-cult that preaches our uncompromising destruction, and I'm just wondering how you go about carying out your little idea of destroying the cause for the terrorists since the cause is our existence. Do you propose all of Western civilization jump off the world just so a 7th century culture and religion won't feel threatened?

 

[Nightwish]

Y'know .... you had my interest piqued until you had to go and insult MtnBiker for daring disagree with your wonderful assessment.

It wasn't an insult, it was a caution. When people don't understand the root of a problem, they become part of it, because they allow it to persist untreated. Treating terrorism like a military problem is kind of like trying to cure poison ivy by sanding off the bumps as they appear (which as I'm sure you can imagine, makes the problem worse, not better).

Your argument is that we need to figure out how to un-brainwash an entire culture that is backwards-assed to ours, and one of its basic tenets is that we are evil, not to be trusted, but to be feared.

Well, completely changing their way of thinking, a completely getting them to abandon their fundamentalist Islamic beliefs would certainly do the trick. But that's not going to happen. But there are reasons why they think we're evil, not to be trusted, but to be feared, and it's not because the Koran says so.

Add to that the Islamic fundamentalist sub-cult that preaches our uncompromising destruction, and I'm just wondering how you go about carying out your little idea of destroying the cause for the terrorists since the cause is our existence.

The cause is not our existence. The cause is our intrusive foreign policy, our support of Israel, our contribution to the Nakba, and so on. It's not who we are, it's what we've done to interfere in their lives and culture.

 

[Hobbit]

The cause is not our existence. The cause is our intrusive foreign policy, our support of Israel, our contribution to the Nakba, and so on. It's not who we are, it's what we've done to interfere in their lives and culture.

Bullshit.

What has caused them to hate us in psychotic dictators like Saddam Hussein keeping their people in abject poverty, then successfully placing the blame for the whole thing on us. In fact, Osama bin Laden's entire schtick was just a bid for power. His whole family is really influential, but he wanted to be fully in charge, so he freed Afghanistan from the Soviets, hoping he'd get to be the Shah or the Sultan or something. Later, he turned his attention towards America.

Having an enemy to fight makes a great power base. Do you really think Lincoln would have been famous without the Civil War? What about the founding fathers, who were mostly just businessmen? That's why we're in danger. What we and Israel do have nothing to do with their hatred of us. All it is is a bunch of horrible old men who want to be in charge and use the U.S. and Israel as the bogeymen to get their subjects to do their bidding.

I mean, all these guys hear is "The U.S. causes all of your problems. Destroy them and it will all go away." That being the case, the best way to fight terrorism has nothing to do with appeasing the terrorists and doing what they want, because most of what they blame us for is stuff we didn't do. The average terrorist has a very poor grasp on world politics and doesn't hate America for giving money to Israel. They hate America for starving their children and eating Muslim babies. The best way to solve the terrorism problem is exactly what we're doing right now, and that's to remove the psychos from power and show the rest of the population that we're realy not that bad. That's the main reason we passed out Hershey bars in Germany. The Germans thought we would throw them on a spit and roast them alive. The best way to shatter that illusion is by giving out free food, labor, and medical care.

 

[Mariner]

people here are using the word "terrorist" loosely, as if all terrorists were the same. The world is more complicated than that, and we have to deal with it.

Al Qaeda terrorists, who committed 9/11, were incensed about U.S. military presence on holy Saudi soil. As best we now know, they had nothing to do with Iraq, though they are there now, since that's become a good place to kill Americans.

Home-grown Iraqi insurgents make up 90% of the terrorists there. These are terrorists we created, by invading the country. Some are angry about relatives whom we have killed. Most are angry about the Sunni loss of prestige due to our invasion, which upset the power balance there (a power balance we used to support, right through Saddam's worst crimes, when it was in our interest, when Reagan was president).

Palestinian terrorists are people pushed off their land by the establishment of the state of Israel. Israel started this one--there was vicious Israeli terrorism towards Arabs before there was any Arab terrorism in return. This fact is so hidden that I never knew it until reading a comprehensive (and neutral) history of the region recently.

Let's stop saying "terrorists" as if all these people know and like each other, and are planning together for our doom. They all have different--and often completely conflicting aims. They may use the language of the Koran to inspire their followers, but that hardly makes them representative of the religion of Islam.

Let's also admit that we have supported terrorism ourselves. Many Irish-Americans supported the IRA until Al Qaeda gave terrorism such a bad name that they had to disarm. Reagan's "Freedom Fighters" were terrorists. The American Revolutionaries who started our Revolution were seen by the British as lawless terrorists. ANC terrorism likely helped end apartheid in South Africa.

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

I like Bully Pulpit's essay--an excellent synopsis of history that is often ignored in discussions on these message boards. Finally, we can talk on USMB about what the terrorists might be thinking and feeling. A year ago, they weren't human here. They were like the bad guys in bad American movies, swarming all over and waiting to shot down by Rambo.

Mariner.

 

[Nightwish]

Bullshit.

What has caused them to hate us in psychotic dictators like Saddam Hussein keeping their people in abject poverty, then successfully placing the blame for the whole thing on us.

Yeah? So why did they hate us before Saddam came along? And why didn't they even really care about us before we started intruding in Middle Eastern affairs?

In fact, Osama bin Laden's entire schtick was just a bid for power. His whole family is really influential, but he wanted to be fully in charge, so he freed Afghanistan from the Soviets, hoping he'd get to be the Shah or the Sultan or something. Later, he turned his attention towards America.

Interesting theory. Anything besides conjecture to back it up? At any rate, what does it have to do with why some terrorists hate us?

Having an enemy to fight makes a great power base.

Sure. Problem is, they've always had an enemy to fight. We've been here for 200 years. They've not been without an enemy to fight for a few thousand. Were they just using all that time to rehearse for us? Did they have some prophecy saying that several hundred years from now, the United States will be born, and we must begin training now by fighting a never-ending war so that we'll be ready when the Great White Devil comes along?

Do you really think Lincoln would have been famous without the Civil War?

Well, there was that little emancipation thing.

What about the founding fathers, who were mostly just businessmen? That's why we're in danger.

We're in danger because the founding fathers were businessmen? Sorry, you just lost me!

What we and Israel do have nothing to do with their hatred of us. All it is is a bunch of horrible old men who want to be in charge and use the U.S. and Israel as the bogeymen to get their subjects to do their bidding.

Uh huh.

I mean, all these guys hear is "The U.S. causes all of your problems. Destroy them and it will all go away." That being the case, the best way to fight terrorism has nothing to do with appeasing the terrorists and doing what they want, because most of what they blame us for is stuff we didn't do. The average terrorist has a very poor grasp on world politics and doesn't hate America for giving money to Israel. They hate America for starving their children and eating Muslim babies. The best way to solve the terrorism problem is exactly what we're doing right now, and that's to remove the psychos from power and show the rest of the population that we're realy not that bad. That's the main reason we passed out Hershey bars in Germany. The Germans thought we would throw them on a spit and roast them alive. The best way to shatter that illusion is by giving out free food, labor, and medical care.

Dude, who the heck have you been talking to? Have you even bothered to talk to anyone who is actually from over there? Or have you gotten all your information from those moronic dimwits like Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Savage, who are constantly shouting at you from their electronic pulpits?

 

[manu1959]

Yeah? So why did they hate us before Saddam came along? And why didn't they even really care about us before we started intruding in Middle Eastern affairs?

Interesting theory. Anything besides conjecture to back it up? At any rate, what does it have to do with why some terrorists hate us?

Sure. Problem is, they've always had an enemy to fight. We've been here for 200 years. They've not been without an enemy to fight for a few thousand. Were they just using all that time to rehearse for us? Did they have some prophecy saying that several hundred years from now, the United States will be born, and we must begin training now by fighting a never-ending war so that we'll be ready when the Great White Devil comes along?

Well, there was that little emancipation thing.

We're in danger because the founding fathers were businessmen? Sorry, you just lost me!

Uh huh.

Dude, who the heck have you been talking to? Have you even bothered to talk to anyone who is actually from over there? Or have you gotten all your information from those moronic dimwits like Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Savage, who are constantly shouting at you from their electronic pulpits?

so tell me then why do they hate the US.....why do they blow up london....spain...bali...indonesia....manila....germany....etc....tell of belgium (home of the world court) and their treatment of muslims in the congo?

please enlighten us

 

[MtnBiker]

so tell me then why do they hate the US.....why do they blow up london....spain...bali...indonesia....manila....germany....etc....tell of belgium (home of the world court) and their treatment of muslims in the congo?

Don't forget attacks in Turkey and Jordan.

 

[manu1959]

Don't forget attacks in Turkey and Jordan.

ah yes....and those poor children in russian.....and all those cars in france....

 

[MtnBiker]

.....and all those cars in france....

I think down trodden muslims have a genetic hatered for Renaults.

 

[manu1959]

I think down trodden muslims have a genetic hatered for Renaults.

possible....somehow i think it is all those years of colonial imperialistic opression by the french.....the congo, iraq, vietnam etc,.....

 

[Mariner]

"Having an enemy to fight makes a great power base."

Bush's strategy, exactly, enacted brilliantly.

I'm wondering how all of you are so sure of why some Muslims hate us. From talking to some actual Muslims, the impression I've gotten is that many of them feel the same way about American culture that fundamentalist Christians do--too much sex and violence. Another batch feel we're hypocritical, labelling ourselves as "all good" and being very unwilling to examine our errors. I haven't talked to any terrorists, but I have spoken with the chief psychiatrist who advises the CIA (we belong to the same think tank), who has spoken with many of them. He feels their religion has been distorted into a perfect tool for manipulation by people such as Osama bin Laden. The obedience they are taught to cultivate works against them in this situation.

Mariner.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah? So why did they hate us before Saddam came along? And why didn't they even really care about us before we started intruding in Middle Eastern affairs?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a major conflict with Iraq prior to Saddam. In fact, the Arab "hate America" stance started in Iran when we helped Iraq fight them. Libya didn't like us because we kept blocking their nuclear program (due to "instability" in their government), and they were pretty much it until the Arab nations didn't have the Soviet Union to fight any more. The only conflict the U.S. had prior to any of the above with a Muslim populace (rather than a single leader) was in the Philipines, and, to be fair to the Philipinos, we were trying to conquor them to expand an empire.

Interesting theory. Anything besides conjecture to back it up? At any rate, what does it have to do with why some terrorists hate us?

Yes, but it's in print, so I can't post it here, and if you'd read my post as a whole instead of breaking the thing up and taking it out of context, you'd know. Osama didn't attack the U.S. to make us do something or not do something. He attacked the U.S. because blaming everyone's problems on the U.S. and then calling for attacks on us made him a hero, and heros are very powerful politically.

Sure. Problem is, they've always had an enemy to fight. We've been here for 200 years. They've not been without an enemy to fight for a few thousand. Were they just using all that time to rehearse for us? Did they have some prophecy saying that several hundred years from now, the United States will be born, and we must begin training now by fighting a never-ending war so that we'll be ready when the Great White Devil comes along?

I can only reach a couple of conclusions from this posting. One is that you lack a basic understanding of anything I have said, most of it being that hatred of the U.S. is merely a recent power base. Before that, it was the Soviet Union. Before that, the British. Before that, the Europeans in general. Arab leaders have been using percieved enemies as their power base for thousands of years. We just happen to be the latest target, not the greatest, nor the only.

Well, there was that little emancipation thing.

Study history a little more closely. More has been done for the black man in the past 50 years than in the 200 before that. Emancipation changed little, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a brilliant, but purely political, move that ensure the British and French, who condemned slavery, would not enter the war on the side of the South to protect their main source of cotton.

We're in danger because the founding fathers were businessmen? Sorry, you just lost me!

Ok, maybe that necessitated a change in paragraphs, but still, there's this idea where I make a point (conflict makes people into heros, who are powerful), then, when I think I've made the point, I, now follow me, move on to another point namely that this phenomenon is why Muslim leaders breed conflict, thus endangering us. Neat concept, huh?

Uh huh.

Wow, what a thrilling, fact-filled retort. How long did it take you to research that fact-filled and logical retort? I mean, I must now bow down to your superior intellect and agree with everything you say because this argument has so perfectly countered mine that I must assume that you know everything.

Dude, who the heck have you been talking to? Have you even bothered to talk to anyone who is actually from over there? Or have you gotten all your information from those moronic dimwits like Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Savage, who are constantly shouting at you from their electronic pulpits?

See, this is a typical excuse. First, you assume that Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Savage are all idiots. This is a downright fallacy. Hannity is rude, Limbaugh is flamboyant and arrogant, O'Reilly is pompous and a little wierd, and Savage is downright hostile and occasionally vulgar, but they're all very smart people who are far more qualified to give opinions on national issues than any of us here.

Second, you assume that I cannot possibly have an opinion or any original ideas not given to me by somebody else. Therefore, since I have opinions you so obviously think of as absolutely wrong, then I must get them from people you "know" are idiots simply because democrats usually call them such. I reached these conclusions not because of anything I heard on the radio, but after an extensive look at how the Muslim leaders tend to operate. No Muslim leader has intentionally sacrificed himself for a cause. Most of the violent ones are related to people who hold power, but don't share it. In fact, most of the ones who run terrorist countries live quite lavishly while blaming everything on the U.S. The obvious answer is that they want to exploit the people, then find somewhere else to funnel the blame when the mob gets ornery.

So far, your main defense against any logical argument I make is basically a better articulated version of "You're a stupid head," and then sticking out your tongue. Now, I've seen others that do this (like TheClayTaurus) eventually turn out to be pretty knowledgable people who can and will debate once they get over all of this childishness. Then, there are ones like Psychoblues, who just never grow up. I really hope you're in the first group, but right now, your debate skills are just barely above grade school.

 

[Nightwish]

so tell me then why do they hate the US....

Our support for Israel, their hereditary enemy, for one. Bin Laden has actually said that in so many words, that Al Qaeda will not stop targeting the US until we back off our support for Israel. The Nakba (the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by the US/British/Israeli Hagganah in the late 40s engendered a new level of hatred for Israel and those who contributed to that event. They are also intent upon uniting the Arab Middle East as a theocratic collective, with all member states ruled by the Clergy under Islamic Law. We are trying to nudge the Middle East in exactly the opposite direction, thus we've put ourselves in their target sights.

why do they blow up london....spain...

They already told us why -- to force those countries to withdraw their support for the US-led occupation of Iraq. It worked with Spain, didn't work with Britain.

bali...indonesia....manila....germany....etc....

Bali because it's a secular Muslim state that resists efforts to desecularize it's government. Same with Indonesia. With Manila, in the southern Phillipines, there is a strong Muslim core, and they're trying to encourage Muslims in that area to turn against the Filipino government and break away their own Muslim state. I don't know what the reason was in Germany, but I suspect it was similar to the reasoning behind the Spain and London attacks.

tell of belgium (home of the world court) and their treatment of muslims in the congo?

I'm curious why you brought this up. In Belgium, it was the Belgians mistreating the Muslims, not the other way around. Why do you bring that up in a discussion of attacks perpetrated by Muslims?

 

[manu1959]

Our support for Israel, their hereditary enemy, for one. Bin Laden has actually said that in so many words, that Al Qaeda will not stop targeting the US until we back off our support for Israel. The Nakba (the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by the US/British/Israeli Hagganah in the late 40s engendered a new level of hatred for Israel and those who contributed to that event. They are also intent upon uniting the Arab Middle East as a theocratic collective, with all member states ruled by the Clergy under Islamic Law. We are trying to nudge the Middle East in exactly the opposite direction, thus we've put ourselves in their target sights.

They already told us why -- to force those countries to withdraw their support for the US-led occupation of Iraq. It worked with Spain, didn't work with Britain.

Bali because it's a secular Muslim state that resists efforts to desecularize it's government. Same with Indonesia. With Manila, in the southern Phillipines, there is a strong Muslim core, and they're trying to encourage Muslims in that area to turn against the Filipino government and break away their own Muslim state. I don't know what the reason was in Germany, but I suspect it was similar to the reasoning behind the Spain and London attacks.

I'm curious why you brought this up. In Belgium, it was the Belgians mistreating the Muslims, not the other way around. Why do you bring that up in a discussion of attacks perpetrated by Muslims?

why did they invade spain long before the US existed? if belgium was so evil way do they not try and kill them still? you do know that the US did not create israel? you are aware of the balfor agreement?

 

[Nightwish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a major conflict with Iraq prior to Saddam.

We're talking about Muslims in general, not Iraqis specifically.

In fact, the Arab "hate America" stance started in Iran when we helped Iraq fight them. Libya didn't like us because we kept blocking their nuclear program (due to "instability" in their government), and they were pretty much it until the Arab nations didn't have the Soviet Union to fight any more. The only conflict the U.S. had prior to any of the above with a Muslim populace (rather than a single leader) was in the Philipines, and, to be fair to the Philipinos, we were trying to conquor them to expand an empire.

Okay, now I'm confused. I said that they hate us not because of who were are, but because of things we did. Your response to that was, oh yes, "Bullshit." And now you're saying they hate us because of, let me see, hmmm, errr, uh, things we did? But I thought you just said that was bullshit?

Yes, but it's in print, so I can't post it here, and if you'd read my post as a whole instead of breaking the thing up and taking it out of context, you'd know. Osama didn't attack the U.S. to make us do something or not do something. He attacked the U.S. because blaming everyone's problems on the U.S. and then calling for attacks on us made him a hero, and heros are very powerful politically.

Perhaps, but that only explains one example of a terrorist, and doesn't support your earlier contention that they hate us for no other reason than that we're "American."

I can only reach a couple of conclusions from this posting. One is that you lack a basic understanding of anything I have said, most of it being that hatred of the U.S. is merely a recent power base. Before that, it was the Soviet Union. Before that, the British. Before that, the Europeans in general. Arab leaders have been using percieved enemies as their power base for thousands of years. We just happen to be the latest target, not the greatest, nor the only.

Well, you seemed to be saying that "our existence" was the reason for their mindset, proclaiming the suggestion that it wasn't our existence, but instead our actions, as "bullshit." Then just above you flip-flopped and said that it was, in fact, our actions that have brought this ire upon us. I just wish you'd make up your mind.

Study history a little more closely. More has been done for the black man in the past 50 years than in the 200 before that. Emancipation changed little, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a brilliant, but purely political, move that ensure the British and French, who condemned slavery, would not enter the war on the side of the South to protect their main source of cotton.

How quickly progress happened for blacks after the emancipation, and Lincoln's motives for enacting are irrelevant. You implied that he wouldn't have been famous had the Civil War not happened. But the Emancipation Proclamation is among his very strongest claims to fame. Now, if you wish to argue that the Emancipation wouldn't have happened if the Civil War hadn't happened, that's a whole nothing thing.

Ok, maybe that necessitated a change in paragraphs, but still, there's this idea where I make a point (conflict makes people into heros, who are powerful), then, when I think I've made the point, I, now follow me, move on to another point namely that this phenomenon is why Muslim leaders breed conflict, thus endangering us. Neat concept, huh?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your intent. Okay, I can see how the argument that "our existence" is what engenders their hatred, in the context that these extremist leaders are sort of "wagging the dog," maintaining an enemy to fight just so they'll stay popular. The problem is, the argument that "our existence" is what they hate is a common one, you're not the first to make it, and it is almost invariably coupled with ideological arguments that it is all the things we stand for -- freedom, democracy, god-fearing Christianity -- that they hate and want to abolish from the earth. But none of that is true, they don't care in the least about democracy or Christianity, except where it intrudes upon Islamic lands.

Wow, what a thrilling, fact-filled retort. How long did it take you to research that fact-filled and logical retort? I mean, I must now bow down to your superior intellect and agree with everything you say because this argument has so perfectly countered mine that I must assume that you know everything.

You were offering what appeared to be little more than wild conjecture and vitriolic aspersions, so what more would you expect. Now, I think I am coming to understand what you meant by "our existence," and that has put your argument in better context, but first I had to remove it from the rhetorical arguments that invariable accompany it in almost every other instance in which I've encountered it.

See, this is a typical excuse. First, you assume that Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Savage are all idiots. This is a downright fallacy. Hannity is rude, Limbaugh is flamboyant and arrogant, O'Reilly is pompous and a little wierd, and Savage is downright hostile and occasionally vulgar, but they're all very smart people who are far more qualified to give opinions on national issues than any of us here.

As soon as Limbaugh proclaimed that there's no such thing as a moderate, that moderate's are nothing but spineless wimps who lack the courage to commit to fully liberal or fully conservative stance, he gave up his qualifications to give opinions, as far as I'm concerned. Likewise with O'Reilly when he tried to claim that a handful of isolated incidents of stupidity represent a widespread conspiracy to steal Christmas (when Letterman told him off on the Late Show, that was possibly the greatest TV moment ever!)

I reached these conclusions not because of anything I heard on the radio, but after an extensive look at how the Muslim leaders tend to operate. No Muslim leader has intentionally sacrificed himself for a cause. Most of the violent ones are related to people who hold power, but don't share it. In fact, most of the ones who run terrorist countries live quite lavishly while blaming everything on the U.S. The obvious answer is that they want to exploit the people, then find somewhere else to funnel the blame when the mob gets ornery.

Your point about their leaders may be perfectly valid. But it isn't the leaders carrying out the attacks, and without a following, the motives of the leaders are meaningless. What is important is why do those followers follow them, and why do they feel as they do about the US? And you still didn't completely answer the question -- did any part of your opinions derive from having actually talked to Muslims who live in that part of the world? After all, you can develop an opinion from listening to pundits or from reading the headlines, or from examining trends and patterns in terrorist attacks, but there's still no better source than the horse's mouth.

So far, your main defense against any logical argument I make is basically a better articulated version of "You're a stupid head," and then sticking out your tongue. Now, I've seen others that do this (like TheClayTaurus) eventually turn out to be pretty knowledgable people who can and will debate once they get over all of this childishness. Then, there are ones like Psychoblues, who just never grow up. I really hope you're in the first group, but right now, your debate skills are just barely above grade school.

Nice try at using subtle ad homs to unsettle your opponent. Didn't work, but it was a nice effort. Now that I think I understand a little better where you're coming from, I'll look forward to continuing this discussion later. Now, it's time for bed.

 

[Nightwish]

why did they invade spain long before the US existed?

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Al Qaeda attack in Spain just a couple years ago, right before their election. As for the ancient invasion of Spain, that's pretty much a non-issue. In those times, everybody was trying to expand and conquer. You had the British Empire, the French Empire, the Moors, and probably quite a few others. The Moors invading Spain was pretty typical of the times.

If Belgium was so evil way do they not try and kill them still?

Belgium is not a Muslim nation, nor were they interfering in the affairs of a Muslim nation. I'm sure they don't have the time or inclination to target each and every nation or government which mistreats Muslims. That's not their goal. They aren't out to spread Islam around the world. They are out to protect and preserve the identity of nations and regions that are already predominately Muslim.

you do know that the US did not create israel? you are aware of the balfor agreement?

The Balfour agreement was dissolved five years after it was enacted. The modern state of Israel was created in 1947 by the Partition Act, sponsored by the US and Great Britain, which sectioned off parts of Syria, Jordan and Egypt to establish a Jewish state. Although there wasn't a state of Palestine at the time, there was an ethnic identity of Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian Palestinians. The Hagganah was a militant organization comprised of conscripted American, British, and Israeli troops who went on a spree just after the partition and forced Palestinians (most of whom were just farmers) from their homes to make way for the ingress of displaced German, Russian, and Austrian Jews who would make up much of the population of Israel. They even massacred a few villages, just for good measure.

http://www.alnakba.org/

 

[manu1959]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Al Qaeda attack in Spain just a couple years ago, right before their election. As for the ancient invasion of Spain, that's pretty much a non-issue. In those times, everybody was trying to expand and conquer. You had the British Empire, the French Empire, the Moors, and probably quite a few others. The Moors invading Spain was pretty typical of the times.


Belgium is not a Muslim nation, nor were they interfering in the affairs of a Muslim nation. I'm sure they don't have the time or inclination to target each and every nation or government which mistreats Muslims. That's not their goal. They aren't out to spread Islam around the world. They are out to protect and preserve the identity of nations and regions that are already predominately Muslim.


The Balfour agreement was dissolved five years after it was enacted. The modern state of Israel was created in 1947 by the Partition Act, sponsored by the US and Great Britain, which sectioned off parts of Syria, Jordan and Egypt to establish a Jewish state. Although there wasn't a state of Palestine at the time, there was an ethnic identity of Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian Palestinians. The Hagganah was a militant organization comprised of conscripted American, British, and Israeli troops who went on a spree just after the partition and forced Palestinians (most of whom were just farmers) from their homes to make way for the ingress of displaced German, Russian, and Austrian Jews who would make up much of the population of Israel. They even massacred a few villages, just for good measure.

http://www.alnakba.org/

no problem.....i find it odd that you discount the history of the issues and jump to the US as the cause for why it is the way it is...if i cut to the chase if not for 1776 the middle east would be just fine......i think maybe if you look to holland and england and france and belgium and spain you may not be so quick to fall on your US sword. not that you are not without guilt but yet you may not be the only one.....and lastly if the koran and the muslim faith is the religion of peace why are they killing everyone...

 

[Nightwish]

no problem.....i find it odd that you discount the history of the issues and jump to the US as the cause for why it is the way it is...

I didn't jump to the US as the cause for why it is the way it is. I was addressing the allegation that "our existence" is the reason they hate us. My response to that allegation was that, regarding their animosity toward the US, it is because of things we've done, not simply because of who we are. That is not meant to imply that the US is the sole or primary cause of the problems in the Middle East. If the radical muslims of the Arab world collectively have a Public Enemy #1, it is probably Israel, not the US.

 

[Nightwish]

and lastly if the koran and the muslim faith is the religion of peace why are they killing everyone...

I haven't said that it is a religion of peace. I know some Muslims who say that, and I know some Christians who say the same of Christianity. Honestly, I don't believe it from either camp.