Ten Questions - Buddha - Buddhism

[emilynghiem]

Well yes, the questions designed (not sure if you read them?) were meant for discussing Buddism from the view that it's not true. I'm getting different answers, some believe in Nirvana, some dont, some believe you can combine Buddhism with Christianity, some don't.
But unless there's a thread or a mod tells me I've done something wrong, what's wrong with it? If you don't wanna partake or answer, I won't be offended, nor am I offended with your answers. You shared, thank you. It's cool.

Dear Marie: If Sky does not want to discuss this in the framework you gave, I am willing to read your msgs and reply in the meantime. I admit I did not read them in the full detail I would like, because it was late at night, but prefer to follow up in the context you established as Christians first. That is not Sky's approach. I would like to finish exploring Scriptures from the Bible on this. I can even start a new thread if you like so it doesn't have to offend Sky.

As for Sky she made it clear
1. She is still rejecting Christianity and does not want to invite that in
2. She believes any interaction is a masked form of Christians trying to convert Buddhists so that is why she resents and rejects this
So she is projecting that bias on her messages.

I mentioned before that in the healing process, sometimes wounds form a "scab" and it is best not to pick at it. Not to force the protective wall to come off too soon. But let it fall off on its own when the time is right, and the wound can heal without being vulnerable.

So perhaps Sky's rejection and anger is serving as a scab on her wounds from religious abuse, until that wound is farther along in the healing process.

I am happy to start a new thread from the perspective you and I might share in common.
Thanks, Marie
Yours truly,
Emily

P.S. I did post a second reply about comparing the spirit of the laws/teachings in
Buddhism and Christianity. Would you like to start there?

 

[Marie888]

I need to figure out how to "quote" without quoting a whole thingymabob! LOL. I'm just gonna post.

Re: Comparing the spirit/laws of Buddhism and Christianity, no thank you, that's ok, Emily. I appreciate it. I already know where I stand, and see where you stand, where Sky stands, etc. If you want to answer any of the other questions here as you were, please feel free. Thanks.

 

[Marie888]

Emily--

If you want to mix it up with Christians, be my guest. I'm not going to. I'm done. I have nothing to say to Christians other than I hate them, and I am committed to working through my anger and hate.

Good luck.

Sky

((((((( Sky )))))))) With all you went through in your past, I can understand from your perspective how hurt you've been and why you are even saying this. You've suffered abuse. You may think I want to harm you, but please know that I do not whatsover. My acceptance of you is about you, (not Buddism of course) But if I don't believe in Buddism, that doesn't mean I don't like you. I can still accept you, I hope you can with me too.

I seen your other thread about fear and hate, etc. I'm going to reply here, if thats ok.. because what you said above kinda goes with it. I'm seriously only trying to help and encourage you. Even if you lash back at me, I'm gonna take it. It's ok. It's my belief it's not even "me" personally you are mad at. It goes wayyyy deeper than that. And I know about deep hurts myself too. I understand.

I just wanna share a verse with you... you can take it or leave. But truly it's to try to HELP you..not hurt you. Like you said, you don't hate Jesus, but you hate what people try to do in God's name. (Understandably in alot of cases) So perhaps this verse here may possibly help. It sheds light on fear/punishment.

When others hurt us, sometimes we lash out and try to hurt others, or we hurt ourselves (punish others, or punish ourselves). I believe the release you are looking for, is in what Jesus said -- to love one another. (That means forgiving them, even the unforgivable) Forgiving someone doesn't mean what they did is "right". It's still wrong when people wrong us. But it's like Jesus did... taking the "lashes" (that were so underserved) on that Cross. We take them too sometimes. Did He deserve it? No. Do we at times? No. But when we think about it, we are ALL capable and DO hurt others also. With our words, with our actions, with our physical bodies even. How do we get over that? LOVE. Love covers a multitude of sins (wrong doings). It is hard? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that's the whole point. Others are going to hurt us. We will hurt others. We've got that "nature". How do we overcome? LOVE.

Here's the verse:

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

You don't have to reply even, just wanted to share that with you. If it helps inside you, great. If not, well I was only trying. Take care and hang in there.

.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Sky and Marie:
First Sky I do want to applaud your honesty in saying exactly how you feel.
That shows you are not in denial about that.
Claiming your experiences and expressions for these is an important step in healing.
And you made it clear you are working on your anger and hatred and THIS is where you are right now. Completely honest and that is the way to set yourself free from what it is that you know is plaguing you right now. There are ways to use this anger stage to further the process, and you are seeking to do that, to understand and work through this!

And I'm sorry if I said things to acknowledge Allie's statements in any way that was
not fair or not true and was hurtful or damaging to you. I hope this can be corrected, Sky.

For Marie, my mother does not get the things in Christianity like forgiveness when it is presented in that language. However, she did accept the concept the way a Buddhist monk explained it to her.

He advised her to have "equal compassion" for all people, whether or not they do good or bad to you, you still treat them good. This is in keeping with Buddha's teaching and goals to have compassion for all beings, all life in the world, and not to discriminate.

I can't say it exactly as he did, but he addressed her within her context and undertsanding and she got the concept she got the message. She let go of some attachments that way and renewed her commitment to her responsibility independent of other people.

But having equal compassion at all times for all people inherently involves forgiveness.
It just doesn't say it directly.
Once you make the commitment to receive this compassion in your relationships with people, then anything that blocks it or is contrary to that equal compassion has to be identified and removed.

I believe Sky is seeking to take these steps, but her path is different from mine or anyone else on here.

That is very kind of you to agree to walk with her and support her even if she distrusts your intent or mine, or others. That is understandable. In Buddhism you don't believe things on faith necessarily, but seek to understand what you adopt as truth; once you find the truth you stick to that consistently. But getting there by reason and free will, by observing and making changes is up to that person's process.

Sky BTW my friend who is more Buddhist and hates Christianity probably more than you do, I'm not kidding, received spiritual healing and prayer in Christ Jesus but this DID NOT CONVERT HIM. He merely let go so he could be truer to his own path in purpose in life which he uses Buddhism to define and map out, he does NOT relate to Christianity and still dislikes it like an allergy to something you just have to avoid so you don't react negatively.

That did not stop him from receiving and applying Christian prayer to heal extreme rage and abusive crap from his past that was keeping him trapped in selfdestruction and misery.

So his path did use Christianity but does not convert him to it.
You can use the laws of gravity to help you do things in life,
but that does not mean you convert and become a scientist and study these laws yourself.

Same with the concepts in any religion that are universal wisdom and truth we
can all benefit from. There are like different languages for the same laws or concepts that
repeat in all systems because human nature is consistent and goes through the same spiritual process no matter what ways we use to describe or map out this process.

I love the teachings in Buddhism and also the spirit in Christianity for making this process accessible where we can talk about and share to further our own path, even though each of us is unique in that.

Take care and I hope you feel better and better
about your relationships with people on here
and in life in general. The labels should matter
less and less the more the false divisions and
conflicts of the past are renounced and let go.

The same things you or me or others hate in any group or religion is found in
abuses in general, so that is a universal pain we all feel in one way or another.

Your process of working this out is yours, and I hope and pray you always
have just the right support you need for each step you take in order to
make the most of your journey in life!

Thank you Sky
Thanks Marie
I appreciate your both sharing so honestly on here
Where we speak the truth with love that helps to set us free

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Sky Dancer]

Emily--

If you want to mix it up with Christians, be my guest. I'm not going to. I'm done. I have nothing to say to Christians other than I hate them, and I am committed to working through my anger and hate.

Good luck.

Sky

((((((( Sky )))))))) With all you went through in your past, I can understand from your perspective how hurt you've been and why you are even saying this. You've suffered abuse. You may think I want to harm you, but please know that I do not whatsover. My acceptance of you is about you, (not Buddism of course) But if I don't believe in Buddism, that doesn't mean I don't like you. I can still accept you, I hope you can with me too.

I seen your other thread about fear and hate, etc. I'm going to reply here, if thats ok.. because what you said above kinda goes with it. I'm seriously only trying to help and encourage you. Even if you lash back at me, I'm gonna take it. It's ok. It's my belief it's not even "me" personally you are mad at. It goes wayyyy deeper than that. And I know about deep hurts myself too. I understand.

I just wanna share a verse with you... you can take it or leave. But truly it's to try to HELP you..not hurt you. Like you said, you don't hate Jesus, but you hate what people try to do in God's name. (Understandably in alot of cases) So perhaps this verse here may possibly help. It sheds light on fear/punishment.

When others hurt us, sometimes we lash out and try to hurt others, or we hurt ourselves (punish others, or punish ourselves). I believe the release you are looking for, is in what Jesus said -- to love one another. (That means forgiving them, even the unforgivable) Forgiving someone doesn't mean what they did is "right". It's still wrong when people wrong us. But it's like Jesus did... taking the "lashes" (that were so underserved) on that Cross. We take them too sometimes. Did He deserve it? No. Do we at times? No. But when we think about it, we are ALL capable and DO hurt others also. With our words, with our actions, with our physical bodies even. How do we get over that? LOVE. Love covers a multitude of sins (wrong doings). It is hard? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that's the whole point. Others are going to hurt us. We will hurt others. We've got that "nature". How do we overcome? LOVE.

Here's the verse:

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

You don't have to reply even, just wanted to share that with you. If it helps inside you, great. If not, well I was only trying. Take care and hang in there.

.

I appreciate that you have a good heart and motivation. Bible verses do nothing for me. I see they comfort you.

We have common humanity, but little else to share with each other.

I wish you well. What I've determined is that because I hate Christians, I will not post on any Christian thread from now on. I am completely at peace with my hatred. I am sitting with it with interested curiosity. I won't post on any thread pretending to be about Buddhism, when it's really about Christians discrediting Buddhism. I consider this thread aggressive.

Take care. Bye.

sky

 

[Zander]

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Marie Hi Sky:
1. I thought of one other advantage that we come from differing perspectives:
Sky as Buddhist only, excludes Christianity
Marie as Christian only, believes Buddhism is false
Emily as open to both B and C, as necessary complements interconnected

I realize that if all three of us agree that some point X is a wiser choice (for whatever reasons)
then that thing is more likely to be true by all our standards "independent" of religion.
It is not that any of us is pushing that point X to promote our preference or agenda,
if all of us agree to it! Does that make sense?
It would be like having 3 independent witnesses all agree on the same thing.
So maybe there is an advantage to that.
If all of us came from the same background, it could be because of that common bias.
Clearly, we have such different preferences or biases, anything we agreed on
would mean it was independent of that. Whatever points are so universal we each agree from a different angle,
that would reinforce that point independent of any religion or reasoning behind it.

2. Also Marie I thought of an example of how Buddhism could open the door to negative spiritism. In past life regressions, people can bring up false memories or want to stay attached to connections to past soul-mates or generations from before.

In Christian deliverance prayer, the purpose of tracing where some generational curses may have come from is strictly to remove these unnatural obstructions caused by unforgiven events or attachment to them.

Even in Catholic exorcisms, the priests can get endangered or caught up in demonic or satanic attacks, so that method of inserting someone "in the role of church authority" is not the best way. The difference with safer forms of deliverance is the person gives Jesus alone the authority and does not take this on.

I also found certain Christian denominations (Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness) who believe that spiritual healing as in deliverance/exorcism is unnatural spiritism and is not the healing in Christ Jesus authority recorded in the Bible (which they believe ended).

So the same way you would avoid anything like Buddhism for fear of spiritism,
some Christians treat spiritual healing, even in Christ Jesus name, the same way!

Thanks for that understanding
I would agree with you that with either method of releasing someone from generational curses or karma from the unconscious past, this must be done in the proper spirit or it can be manipulated as spiritism. This is true of either the Buddhist or Christian process for it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hi Marie Hi Sky:
1. I thought of one other advantage that we come from differing perspectives:
Sky as Buddhist only, excludes Christianity
Marie as Christian only, believes Buddhism is false
Emily as open to both B and C, as necessary complements interconnected

I realize that if all three of us agree that some point X is a wiser choice (for whatever reasons)
then that thing is more likely to be true by all our standards "independent" of religion.
It is not that any of us is pushing that point X to promote our preference or agenda,
if all of us agree to it! Does that make sense?
It would be like having 3 independent witnesses all agree on the same thing.
So maybe there is an advantage to that.
If all of us came from the same background, it could be because of that common bias.
Clearly, we have such different preferences or biases, anything we agreed on
would mean it was independent of that. Whatever points are so universal we each agree from a different angle,
that would reinforce that point independent of any religion or reasoning behind it.

2. Also Marie I thought of an example of how Buddhism could open the door to negative spiritism. In past life regressions, people can bring up false memories or want to stay attached to connections to past soul-mates or generations from before.

In Christian deliverance prayer, the purpose of tracing where some generational curses may have come from is strictly to remove these unnatural obstructions caused by unforgiven events or attachment to them.

Even in Catholic exorcisms, the priests can get endangered or caught up in demonic or satanic attacks, so that method of inserting someone "in the role of church authority" is not the best way. The difference with safer forms of deliverance is the person gives Jesus alone the authority and does not take this on.

I also found certain Christian denominations (Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness) who believe that spiritual healing as in deliverance/exorcism is unnatural spiritism and is not the healing in Christ Jesus authority recorded in the Bible (which they believe ended).

So the same way you would avoid anything like Buddhism for fear of spiritism,
some Christians treat spiritual healing, even in Christ Jesus name, the same way!

Thanks for that understanding
I would agree with you that with either method of releasing someone from generational curses or karma from the unconscious past, this must be done in the proper spirit or it can be manipulated as spiritism. This is true of either the Buddhist or Christian process for it.

Not good to mix Christianity and Buddhism. Better to keep them separate. As for interfaith dialogue, it only works when all sides see their religions as equal.

It doesn't work for me and Marie because she feels Buddhism is inherently flawed.

 

[Newby]

Hi Marie Hi Sky:
1. I thought of one other advantage that we come from differing perspectives:
Sky as Buddhist only, excludes Christianity
Marie as Christian only, believes Buddhism is false
Emily as open to both B and C, as necessary complements interconnected

I realize that if all three of us agree that some point X is a wiser choice (for whatever reasons)
then that thing is more likely to be true by all our standards "independent" of religion.
It is not that any of us is pushing that point X to promote our preference or agenda,
if all of us agree to it! Does that make sense?
It would be like having 3 independent witnesses all agree on the same thing.
So maybe there is an advantage to that.
If all of us came from the same background, it could be because of that common bias.
Clearly, we have such different preferences or biases, anything we agreed on
would mean it was independent of that. Whatever points are so universal we each agree from a different angle,
that would reinforce that point independent of any religion or reasoning behind it.

2. Also Marie I thought of an example of how Buddhism could open the door to negative spiritism. In past life regressions, people can bring up false memories or want to stay attached to connections to past soul-mates or generations from before.

In Christian deliverance prayer, the purpose of tracing where some generational curses may have come from is strictly to remove these unnatural obstructions caused by unforgiven events or attachment to them.

Even in Catholic exorcisms, the priests can get endangered or caught up in demonic or satanic attacks, so that method of inserting someone "in the role of church authority" is not the best way. The difference with safer forms of deliverance is the person gives Jesus alone the authority and does not take this on.

I also found certain Christian denominations (Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness) who believe that spiritual healing as in deliverance/exorcism is unnatural spiritism and is not the healing in Christ Jesus authority recorded in the Bible (which they believe ended).

So the same way you would avoid anything like Buddhism for fear of spiritism,
some Christians treat spiritual healing, even in Christ Jesus name, the same way!

Thanks for that understanding
I would agree with you that with either method of releasing someone from generational curses or karma from the unconscious past, this must be done in the proper spirit or it can be manipulated as spiritism. This is true of either the Buddhist or Christian process for it.

Not good to mix Christianity and Buddhism. Better to keep them separate. As for interfaith dialogue, it only works when all sides see their religions as equal.

It doesn't work for me and Marie because she feels Buddhism is inherently flawed.

And you see Christianity as being inherently flawed. So, don't make Marie out to be the biased villian here.

 

[Rogo]

Marie-

If you want to share about Jesus, do so. Don't start a Buddhist thread when you have no sincere interest in Buddhism for it's own sake. You're only interested in comparing the two to put Buddhism down.

Stick to Jesus and leave Buddhism alone. Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

On the other hand, if this is a bash Buddhism thread, I suppose we're due for one. Carry on.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

I'm sure you'll find lots of takers for discussing Jesus.

I actually have to disagree with you on saying that Buddhism and Christianity have nothing in common. There are many Christian/Buddhist scholars who have written books about the similarities between Buddha's teachings and Jesus's teachings. There's even a theory out there that Jesus himself was actually a Buddhist (and some surprisingly legitimate proof to back it up, but I won't get into that).

Also, you mentioned that you've made threads bashing Christianity. What do you mean by "bash"? Because I thought that Buddhism taught against that sort of thing. After all, "Right Speech" is apart of the Eightfold Path.

 

[emilynghiem]

Also, you mentioned that you've made threads bashing Christianity. What do you mean by "bash"? Because I thought that Buddhism taught against that sort of thing. After all, "Right Speech" is apart of the Eightfold Path.

Perhaps I am not the only Constitutionalist on here!

Where the belief in "free speech" allows for wrong speech, as long as you don't abuse free speech to commit a crime, and/or you respect the same rights of others as well as the right to petition and due process in case of conflict.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Marie-

If you want to share about Jesus, do so. Don't start a Buddhist thread when you have no sincere interest in Buddhism for it's own sake. You're only interested in comparing the two to put Buddhism down.

Stick to Jesus and leave Buddhism alone. Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

On the other hand, if this is a bash Buddhism thread, I suppose we're due for one. Carry on.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

I'm sure you'll find lots of takers for discussing Jesus.

I actually have to disagree with you on saying that Buddhism and Christianity have nothing in common. There are many Christian/Buddhist scholars who have written books about the similarities between Buddha's teachings and Jesus's teachings. There's even a theory out there that Jesus himself was actually a Buddhist (and some surprisingly legitimate proof to back it up, but I won't get into that).

Also, you mentioned that you've made threads bashing Christianity. What do you mean by "bash"? Because I thought that Buddhism taught against that sort of thing. After all, "Right Speech" is apart of the Eightfold Path.

This thread was started in order to discredit Buddhism. That doesn't lend itself to an interfaith dialogue. While I am critical of some Christian groups like FRC and RCC, I don't disparage the actual teachings of Jesus.

It's not Christianity that I take issue with. It's what some Christians do to others in the name of their God that I have a problem with.

I don't feel that Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common, just that our goals and teachings are quite different and shouldn't be mixed.

Right speech includes telling the truth, speaking back to power. That means I don't sugar coat my feelings about things like dominionism or the hate group, FRC. I am honest and speak out and that seems like Christian bashing to many Christian posters here, even the ones who don't approve of the Scott Lively's in their camp.

Hope this helps.

sky

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hi Marie Hi Sky:
1. I thought of one other advantage that we come from differing perspectives:
Sky as Buddhist only, excludes Christianity
Marie as Christian only, believes Buddhism is false
Emily as open to both B and C, as necessary complements interconnected

I realize that if all three of us agree that some point X is a wiser choice (for whatever reasons)
then that thing is more likely to be true by all our standards "independent" of religion.
It is not that any of us is pushing that point X to promote our preference or agenda,
if all of us agree to it! Does that make sense?
It would be like having 3 independent witnesses all agree on the same thing.
So maybe there is an advantage to that.
If all of us came from the same background, it could be because of that common bias.
Clearly, we have such different preferences or biases, anything we agreed on
would mean it was independent of that. Whatever points are so universal we each agree from a different angle,
that would reinforce that point independent of any religion or reasoning behind it.

2. Also Marie I thought of an example of how Buddhism could open the door to negative spiritism. In past life regressions, people can bring up false memories or want to stay attached to connections to past soul-mates or generations from before.

In Christian deliverance prayer, the purpose of tracing where some generational curses may have come from is strictly to remove these unnatural obstructions caused by unforgiven events or attachment to them.

Even in Catholic exorcisms, the priests can get endangered or caught up in demonic or satanic attacks, so that method of inserting someone "in the role of church authority" is not the best way. The difference with safer forms of deliverance is the person gives Jesus alone the authority and does not take this on.

I also found certain Christian denominations (Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness) who believe that spiritual healing as in deliverance/exorcism is unnatural spiritism and is not the healing in Christ Jesus authority recorded in the Bible (which they believe ended).

So the same way you would avoid anything like Buddhism for fear of spiritism,
some Christians treat spiritual healing, even in Christ Jesus name, the same way!

Thanks for that understanding
I would agree with you that with either method of releasing someone from generational curses or karma from the unconscious past, this must be done in the proper spirit or it can be manipulated as spiritism. This is true of either the Buddhist or Christian process for it.

Not good to mix Christianity and Buddhism. Better to keep them separate. As for interfaith dialogue, it only works when all sides see their religions as equal.

It doesn't work for me and Marie because she feels Buddhism is inherently flawed.

And you see Christianity as being inherently flawed. So, don't make Marie out to be the biased villian here.

Absolutely not. I do not see the teachings of Jesus as inherently flawed. I see RCC doctrine as flawed and I see the actions of the hate group, FRC, and the man, Scott Lively as flawed.

Marie has an agenda. She considers Buddhism inferior to Christianity and that is no basis for an interfaith dialogue. She has no sincere interest in understanding what Buddhist teachings are about. I think You consider Marie a saint and me some kind of a devil. So be it.

Bye.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Sky:
In both posts above, you mention that once a thread is started by someone who believes Buddhism is false, and isn't opened to changing that bias, then "interfaith dialogue is not possible."

1. I disagree.
1a. This reminds me of people who used to say the Constitution did not apply to black people because it was originally written to treat them as property with no right to vote.
A longer example is given below under 1b.

Just because someone or something starts with "one intention" doesn't mean something else can't happen instead. A lot of negative situations or premises in life end up leading to unexpected benefits despite the problems that motivated the interaction.

2. If you can "forgive" Marie's intent you can still have dialogue with her or anyone on here. It is also up to you if there can be dialogue.

In return, if Marie can "forgive" you and me for our respect and teaching of Buddhism as constructive or positive, then she can still accept to have dialogue with us.

That "forgiveness" is the key factor in restoring good faith relations.
Anything else can be corrected in that spirit, of speaking with truth and extending equal charity and grace to others as we ask for ourselves.

If you can practice that level of "compassion for all beings" as a Buddhist, that would show it is possible to reach spiritual maturity on that path.

However, if the only people who can extend "perfect compassion" to all people, unconditionally of past or current intents that may be negative or abusive,
are people who respect the divine grace in Christ Jesus, then that would prove
my point that all paths lead to this central union anyway.

If you can truly forgive on your own accord, you wouldn't need the divine intervention and gift of grace that Jesus Christ represents.

I agree that there are so many things that members and leaders of the RCC have done to restrict, mask or abuse the true message in Christianity.

But by forgiveness, I am able to credit the good things and focus on that while the wrongs are addressed and corrected, instead of rejection which does not solve the problems.

I am sorry the abuses you suffered affected you so deeply.
For everyone who has benefited from Christian charity and teaching practiced the right way, there are those as you who suffered from the abusive side.

So I thank you for the Sacrifices you have made while these lessons and corrections are being made.

I hope that with forgiveness, you can reap the benefits and allow the wrongs to be corrected and healed with love instead of carrying the wounds and anger from the past.

P.S.
1b. Another example of one intent leading to the opposite outcome:
one of the books I give out free to people is by Scott Peck who set out to PROVE that there was no such thing as outside demonic or satanic influences but all such "hallucinations or delusions" could be explained purely by psychiatric diagnosis as mentally contained in the patient's minds. He was convinced -- not only there was no such independent entity as the devil, but also that he could actually prove this was delusion by applying the scientific method and observing alleged cases of possession himself as a psychiatric professional.

He challenged his friend to send him two patients that would "convince him otherwise."

What resulted instead was that he changed his mind completely to the opposite.
Even though he had set out to prove there was no devil, no demons,
he changed his mind and become convinced 100% there was a spiritual level
beyond just the patients' minds where these influences or forces were coming from.

He acknowledged he could not fully explain this without further research and repeat studies. Most of what he observed could be explained using traditional psychology. But the last 1-5% that he witnessed just defied everything he originally believed, and was enough to justify in his mind ascribing this to some other spiritual dimension or level with an independent hierarchy of entities, outside of human nature and psychology -- even though he could never prove this scientifically. He acknowledged it would take other professionals observing the same phenomena to draw the same conclusion. He strongly urged formal research toward establishing a medical standard process of diagnostics and treatment in this field. (With the neurological and technological advances being developed today, I do believe there will be scientific proof of these negative energies existing or being removed.)

 

[Rogo]

This thread was started in order to discredit Buddhism. That doesn't lend itself to an interfaith dialogue. While I am critical of some Christian groups like FRC and RCC, I don't disparage the actual teachings of Jesus.

It's not Christianity that I take issue with. It's what some Christians do to others in the name of their God that I have a problem with.

I don't feel that Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common, just that our goals and teachings are quite different and shouldn't be mixed.

Right speech includes telling the truth, speaking back to power. That means I don't sugar coat my feelings about things like dominionism or the hate group, FRC. I am honest and speak out and that seems like Christian bashing to many Christian posters here, even the ones who don't approve of the Scott Lively's in their camp.

Hope this helps.

sky

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity, but what sect of Buddhism are you apart of? It's a bit of a pointless question, considering the sects of Buddhism aren't as divisive as those of Islam and Christianity (or divisive at all).

 

[Sky Dancer]

This thread was started in order to discredit Buddhism. That doesn't lend itself to an interfaith dialogue. While I am critical of some Christian groups like FRC and RCC, I don't disparage the actual teachings of Jesus.

It's not Christianity that I take issue with. It's what some Christians do to others in the name of their God that I have a problem with.

I don't feel that Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common, just that our goals and teachings are quite different and shouldn't be mixed.

Right speech includes telling the truth, speaking back to power. That means I don't sugar coat my feelings about things like dominionism or the hate group, FRC. I am honest and speak out and that seems like Christian bashing to many Christian posters here, even the ones who don't approve of the Scott Lively's in their camp.

Hope this helps.

sky

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity, but what sect of Buddhism are you apart of? It's a bit of a pointless question, considering the sects of Buddhism aren't as divisive as those of Islam and Christianity (or divisive at all).

I study Tibetan Buddhism, Vajrayana, Nyingma School. I have studied Theravadin Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism in the Gelukpa school of Tibetan Buddhism, and Vajrayana in the Kagyu School of Tibetan Buddhism.

Thanks for asking.

sky

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hi Marie Hi Sky:
1. I thought of one other advantage that we come from differing perspectives:
Sky as Buddhist only, excludes Christianity
Marie as Christian only, believes Buddhism is false
Emily as open to both B and C, as necessary complements interconnected

I realize that if all three of us agree that some point X is a wiser choice (for whatever reasons)
then that thing is more likely to be true by all our standards "independent" of religion.
It is not that any of us is pushing that point X to promote our preference or agenda,
if all of us agree to it! Does that make sense?
It would be like having 3 independent witnesses all agree on the same thing.
So maybe there is an advantage to that.
If all of us came from the same background, it could be because of that common bias.
Clearly, we have such different preferences or biases, anything we agreed on
would mean it was independent of that. Whatever points are so universal we each agree from a different angle,
that would reinforce that point independent of any religion or reasoning behind it.

2. Also Marie I thought of an example of how Buddhism could open the door to negative spiritism. In past life regressions, people can bring up false memories or want to stay attached to connections to past soul-mates or generations from before.

In Christian deliverance prayer, the purpose of tracing where some generational curses may have come from is strictly to remove these unnatural obstructions caused by unforgiven events or attachment to them.

Even in Catholic exorcisms, the priests can get endangered or caught up in demonic or satanic attacks, so that method of inserting someone "in the role of church authority" is not the best way. The difference with safer forms of deliverance is the person gives Jesus alone the authority and does not take this on.

I also found certain Christian denominations (Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness) who believe that spiritual healing as in deliverance/exorcism is unnatural spiritism and is not the healing in Christ Jesus authority recorded in the Bible (which they believe ended).

So the same way you would avoid anything like Buddhism for fear of spiritism,
some Christians treat spiritual healing, even in Christ Jesus name, the same way!

Thanks for that understanding
I would agree with you that with either method of releasing someone from generational curses or karma from the unconscious past, this must be done in the proper spirit or it can be manipulated as spiritism. This is true of either the Buddhist or Christian process for it.

Not good to mix Christianity and Buddhism. Better to keep them separate. As for interfaith dialogue, it only works when all sides see their religions as equal.

It doesn't work for me and Marie because she feels Buddhism is inherently flawed.

And you see Christianity as being inherently flawed. So, don't make Marie out to be the biased villian here.

Show me one place where I stated that christianity is inherently flawed. I never said that. I've said the doctrine of the RCC is flawed, and that christians like FRC and Scott Lively, who hate gays, and who brag about dropping nuclear bombs on us, the way Lively did in Uganda, practice christianity in a flawed way. They spread hate instead of love.

There is nothing flawed about the essential teachings of Jesus, there is something amiss with the things some christians do in the name of their god.

That's a huge difference in position. Too bad you can't see it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Show me one place where I stated that christianity is inherently flawed. I never said that. I've said the doctrine of the RCC is flawed, and that christians like FRC and Scott Lively, who hate gays, and who brag about dropping nuclear bombs on us, the way Lively did in Uganda, practice christianity in a flawed way. They spread hate instead of love.

There is nothing flawed about the essential teachings of Jesus, there is something amiss with the things some christians do in the name of their god.

That's a huge difference in position. Too bad you can't see it.

Hi Sky: Do you believe in the Divinity of Jesus? That he is the Son of God sent to earth to bring salvation through divine grace and forgiveness which can break the cycle of sin/suffering where men cannot overcome collective karma on our own (since it did not come from us individually but collectively, so it takes a collective force to change this).

If you, like many Buddhists, do not see Jesus as Divinely Perfect,
then that is basically saying Christians are teaching something false.
So that would be a flaw, to teach something that isn't true.

If you believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit/Spirit of truth "could be" in the teachings of Buddha, as part of the last stages where the last Buddha comes to "enlighten all the other Buddhas" then this could still include Jesus and Christianity as taught today.

But denying the divinity of Jesus, and the role of Christ as central to salvation of all humanity which Christianity teaches would mean you don't believe Christianity is true.

You may believe that the teachings of compassion, charity and forgiveness are true.
But if you believe it is false that Jesus is the Messiah for all humanity,
then Christianity must be flawed for teaching that!

If you are open that "it could be true" that is in keeping with Buddhism,
not to believe until it is proven.
Only denying it and assuming it is already false, when that hasn't been proven either,
would be a conflict.

Where I find Christianity problematic is NOT in teaching that Jesus is Messiah bringing salvation for all humanity inclusively, but where salvation is taught as excluding some and only including certain denominations of Christianity, instead of universally including all tribes in the plan for salvation, including gentiles nontheists atheists.

There are Universalist interpretations of Christianity and salvation,
and that is what I believe in, and do not find it contradicts but fulfills the Bible
as well as all other paths pointing to God and truth.

The divisive/unforgiving approaches to Christianity are the ones I find contradict their own message, but this can be corrected by forgiveness and applying the scriptures. So even that is not a permanent problem, but can be overcome by following Christianity itself.

Thanks Sky
I agree with you to oppose Christian abuses.
Where we differ is that I find, as with any group, such abuses are best addressed and corrected among peers within that group where the correction is mutual and accepted. So it takes other Christians correcting the abusive Christians, to be effective and heard. I find this works, so that is a major reason why I do accept and practice Christianity. It really was not for my sake, but to help address and correct abuses and conflicts.
If I had my way, I would not be involved in any religious anything at all. But it was to help foster communication and understanding with other people who speak and think using these concepts and terms that I committed to learn these diverse languages.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Show me one place where I stated that christianity is inherently flawed. I never said that. I've said the doctrine of the RCC is flawed, and that christians like FRC and Scott Lively, who hate gays, and who brag about dropping nuclear bombs on us, the way Lively did in Uganda, practice christianity in a flawed way. They spread hate instead of love.

There is nothing flawed about the essential teachings of Jesus, there is something amiss with the things some christians do in the name of their god.

That's a huge difference in position. Too bad you can't see it.

Hi Sky: Do you believe in the Divinity of Jesus? That he is the Son of God sent to earth to bring salvation through divine grace and forgiveness which can break the cycle of sin/suffering where men cannot overcome collective karma on our own (since it did not come from us individually but collectively, so it takes a collective force to change this).

If you, like many Buddhists, do not see Jesus as Divinely Perfect,
then that is basically saying Christians are teaching something false.
So that would be a flaw, to teach something that isn't true.

If you believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit/Spirit of truth "could be" in the teachings of Buddha, as part of the last stages where the last Buddha comes to "enlighten all the other Buddhas" then this could still include Jesus and Christianity as taught today.

But denying the divinity of Jesus, and the role of Christ as central to salvation of all humanity which Christianity teaches would mean you don't believe Christianity is true.

You may believe that the teachings of compassion, charity and forgiveness are true.
But if you believe it is false that Jesus is the Messiah for all humanity,
then Christianity must be flawed for teaching that!

If you are open that "it could be true" that is in keeping with Buddhism,
not to believe until it is proven.
Only denying it and assuming it is already false, when that hasn't been proven either,
would be a conflict.

Where I find Christianity problematic is NOT in teaching that Jesus is Messiah bringing salvation for all humanity inclusively, but where salvation is taught as excluding some and only including certain denominations of Christianity, instead of universally including all tribes in the plan for salvation, including gentiles nontheists atheists.

There are Universalist interpretations of Christianity and salvation,
and that is what I believe in, and do not find it contradicts but fulfills the Bible
as well as all other paths pointing to God and truth.

The divisive/unforgiving approaches to Christianity are the ones I find contradict their own message, but this can be corrected by forgiveness and applying the scriptures. So even that is not a permanent problem, but can be overcome by following Christianity itself.

Thanks Sky
I agree with you to oppose Christian abuses.
Where we differ is that I find, as with any group, such abuses are best addressed and corrected among peers within that group where the correction is mutual and accepted. So it takes other Christians correcting the abusive Christians, to be effective and heard. I find this works, so that is a major reason why I do accept and practice Christianity. It really was not for my sake, but to help address and correct abuses and conflicts.
If I had my way, I would not be involved in any religious anything at all. But it was to help foster communication and understanding with other people who speak and think using these concepts and terms that I committed to learn these diverse languages.

Do I believe in the divinity of Jesus? No. I do not believe in God. Do I believe Jesus may have been a bodhisattva, a buddha or an enlightened being? Yes. I think Jesus was enlightened and he attained rainbow body.

Do I think all Christians understand and practice in Christ's footsteps? No. Do I think Christ taught a path to enlightenment? Yes. Do I think many christians achieve enlightenment by practicing institutional christianity like that practiced in the RCC? NO

I don't appreciate you trying to trap me into disparaging Jesus teachings. Jesus taught to Love God, (or goodness)and to Love Thy Neighbor. I have no problem with those essential teachings of Jesus. Jesus never uttered a word about homosexuals. I have a problem with the Scott Lively's of the faith who are on a world mission to hurt gay people.

Abuses are best corrected among peers. I should never have aired my complaints about the RCC, the FRC or Scott Lively. It only shows my folly in trying to discuss religious politics or spiritual practice with christians.

 

[icyteru]

If Jesus was still alive: Why do you suppose that you, of all humankind, were the son of God?