Ten Most Harmful Government Programs

[jillian]

You just can't seem to get it. It's called free market economics. If the public schools suffer no lack of funding from lack of business, they have no valid competition, ergo they have no incentive to do well, ergo they will only do what is required to avoid enough outcry to cut their funding. In a free market society, any business will do as little work as it can get away with and still turn the same profit. The same holds true for schools, which must do little to maintain their tax funding.

And if you look at my original post, I specifically used the word 'compete.' I never said that you had to send kids to public schools. I stated that public schools don't have to compete with anyone, which is 100% true. And if you still fail to grasp that concept, it's very indicative of the fact that you were taught by a government school with no incentive to do very well.

He *gets* your point. I think we *all* get your point. Vouchers have nothing to do with competiton. They have everything to do with trying to get the rest of us to pay for the parochial school education for your children.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

He *gets* your point. I think we *all* get your point. Vouchers have nothing to do with competiton. They have everything to do with trying to get the rest of us to pay for the parochial school education for your children.

Non religious schools will pop up, for sure. If vouchers and "making people pay for other people's stuff" upset you, just cut all the taxes pertaining to education and make education totally free market. How about that?

 

[Hobbit]

He *gets* your point. I think we *all* get your point. Vouchers have nothing to do with competiton. They have everything to do with trying to get the rest of us to pay for the parochial school education for your children.

Ok, then screw private schools. Give them vouchers that let them choose their district. The whole concept is making sure that the schools knows that you can take your money elsewhere if you get sick of putting up with their crap.

I went to a private school...

Lucky bastard. I went to private school until 7th grade, and middle school is the worst thing anybody ever thought of.

 

[Annie]

Ok, then screw private schools. Give them vouchers that let them choose their district. The whole concept is making sure that the schools knows that you can take your money elsewhere if you get sick of putting up with their crap.



Lucky bastard. I went to private school until 7th grade, and middle school is the worst thing anybody ever thought of.

Ah Hobbit, I would really like to meet ya, I'm sorry you weren't in my school. I have a bunch of 'misfits' that have returned to say that I made middle school the best years for them. Truth to tell, every 'misfit' I've known was much more normal than the popular kids, better homes, study habits, self confidence.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

It only matters because it's very easy to comment in the abstract based on things one reads. Not that the opinions aren't valid, but he also isn't juggling paying for a couple of kids in private school while saving for the college and all that. Plus, I find that the quality of public school education can differ greatly from district to district, even within the same city or county.

Your response makes no sense. Anyone who pays taxes gets to have say about public education.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Too lazy to read the link, but I think property tax sucks big time. My FIL said this at his retirement. "I worked my whole adult life, paid off my mortgage, but we're still not secure. If I can't pay taxes, I can still lose my home."

I'd rather see income taxed than property. If you make no income, you owe nothing. But, with property taxes, you make nothing, and you still owe. How you gonna pay?

Agreed. If you truly own property, it should be yours no matter what, otherwise you're just renting from The State. In Texas and Nevada, you can get alloidial title, which basically means you really and truly own the land. I'm not sure how you get that, I just heard about it from Michael Badnarik's constitution class videos.

Another great thing about property taxes: They're based on value, not square footage (which would still be bad). So if you were to build a nice, dignified building it will be taxed more heavily than a shack. No wonder our towns and cities are such sprawling eyesores compared with how they were built in the past.

Side note about education: I often hear public school proponents say that it's vital to have universal "free" education, because you have to have informed educated voters for democracy to work. But wait a second. Why would a government school have any incentive at all to produce citizens with reasoning and logic and a good grasp of history? Wouldn't the government actually have an incentive to crank out helpless dumbasses?

 

[Annie]

Agreed. If you truly own property, it should be yours no matter what, otherwise you're just renting from The State. In Texas and Nevada, you can get alloidial title, which basically means you really and truly own the land. I'm not sure how you get that, I just heard about it from Michael Badnarik's constitution class videos.

Another great thing about property taxes: They're based on value, not square footage (which would still be bad). So if you were to build a nice, dignified building it will be taxed more heavily than a shack. No wonder our towns and cities are such sprawling eyesores compared with how they were built in the past.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...ens&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

What I could find.

 

[Dr Grump]

But wait a second. Why would a government school have any incentive at all to produce citizens with reasoning and logic and a good grasp of history? Wouldn't the government actually have an incentive to crank out helpless dumbasses?

Aw, that is soooo cynical. You think teachers conciously go "hey, I'm gonna create a dumbass today?"...

 

[Annie]

Aw, that is soooo cynical. You think teachers conciously go "hey, I'm gonna create a dumbass today?"...

When I subbed in public schools about 10 years ago, it would seem so. I don't teach in public schools, and use socratic method encompassing the philosophers our founding fathers used, not to mention our founding fathers, including the Federalist Papers for my middle school students...

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Aw, that is soooo cynical. You think teachers conciously go "hey, I'm gonna create a dumbass today?"...

No, not really. Lots of teachers probably do the best they can under the circumstances. (Of course, there are some who are genuinely incompetent, and cannot be fired) I blame the state and federal bureaucrats, mostly. The ones who decide standards and curricula. And it may not be that they are deliberately creating morons, it's just that they have no particular incentive for creating people who can think. In politics, failure is rewarded with larger budgets, because hey, every problem can be fixed with more money, right? They also have no incentive to select history books that portray The State or it's modern dogmas in a bad light.

 

[Annie]

No, not really. Lots of teachers probably do the best they can under the circumstances. (Of course, there are some who are genuinely incompetent, and cannot be fired) I blame the state and federal bureaucrats, mostly. The ones who decide standards and curricula. And it may not be that they are deliberately creating morons, it's just that they have no particular incentive for creating people who can think. In politics, failure is rewarded with larger budgets, because hey, every problem can be fixed with more money, right? They also have no incentive to select history books that portray The State or it's modern dogmas in a bad light.

I disagree. Many are pushing an agenda, sold via unions and based on their personal idiosyncrasies. While they may be 'social studies' teachers, they are not political science or history scholars.

 

[Dr Grump]

When I subbed in public schools about 10 years ago, it would seem so. I don't teach in public schools, and use socratic method encompassing the philosophers our founding fathers used, not to mention our founding fathers, including the Federalist Papers for my middle school students...

Is that part of the public cirriculam in your state? Or do private schools get leeway in what they teach?

 

[Annie]

Is that part of the public cirriculam in your state? Or do private schools get leeway in what they teach?

private schools always have 'leeway', it's a school to school decision. I am required however to meet the state standards, which I exceed. My 6th graders are on a curriculum that exceeds 10th grade standards.

 

[Mr.Conley]

He *gets* your point. I think we *all* get your point. Vouchers have nothing to do with competiton. They have everything to do with trying to get the rest of us to pay for the parochial school education for your children.

Since when does voucher mean parochial school?

Vouchers aren't about sending kids to parochial schools, they're about helping good kids escape- yes , escape is the correct word- some of the most horrible schools, teachers, and classmates in the nation.

 

[jillian]

Your response makes no sense. Anyone who pays taxes gets to have say about public education.

But it is very easy for someone with no kids to say they want to destroy the public school system. The reality of that has no resonance for them.

What I wrote made perfect sense. You just didn't like what I wrote. :cof: