Tell Me Why Profiling is WRONG and a BAD Law Enforcement Policy???

[Wry Catcher]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

Here is the study http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
Here is the cspan video explaining the findings of the study with a Q & A secession Race and Crime Report - C-SPAN Video Library

Thanks for the link. I looked up the New Century Foundation in Wikipedia, here is the first sentence from that site:

"The New Century Foundation is an organization founded in 1994 known primarily for publishing American Renaissance. From 1994 to 1999 its activities received considerable funding by the Pioneer Fund,[1][2][3] and has been described as a white supremacist group,[4] which its founder, Jared Taylor, denies, calling it white separatist."

Now, I'm not suggesting the numbers posted are not true, I have no way of knowing if they are true or not. However, I also looked up the Pioneer Fund and given what I've learned in just a few minutes suggests the agenda of these groups isn't something I'd be proud to offer as a source for anything.

 

[Katzndogz]

How bout a personal anecdote?

The prison I was in in the 80's had a much larger population of blacks than whites. And just like me everyone of them I met deserved to be there. People bitch about the disproportionate number of blacks in prison but everyone of them I met IN REAL LIFE deserved their sentence.
There is an underlying reason for these problems and it isnt skin color. I never met a single black inmate who was convicted and sentenced to prison for being black.

If there were, you'd never know it. Innocent black men have to be just as big and bad as the guilty ones.

I've seen many innocent black men sent to prison. Usually because they are black. Because they are black, they have to act out in the courtroom. They have to be a bad-ass. Take a black man completely innocent of assaulting a white woman. Then just as she is taking the stand, he makes a lunge at her from the defendant's table and screams out that she's a white bitch. All the exculpatory evidence shown to the jury is gone. They won't see anything but that lunge and won't hear anything except him calling her a white bitch. They will only feel secure when the bailiff chains him to the floor.

When he is finally sent away for years, his prison story is going to be that he whipped some white ho's ass.

If you bias your own jury I suppose you can blame no one but yourself. Indeed, you just proved the tendency of deviance of the defendant while likewise proving ignorance and the inability to control ones self in proven civil discourse.

They can't help themselves. I've seen it personally, I know attorney friends that it happened to. To be sure, white men also go crazy in the courtroom, but very seldom (there might be one, but I've never heard of it or seen it) are they innocent. They are usually quite guilty. It's black men that are innocent and are somehow compelled to play the fool in front of an audience.

 

[whitehall]

The freaking justice dept recommends profiling as part of the "neighbor watch program". Listen to the commercials or pick up a flier. It doesn't necessarily focus specifically on racial profiling, every stranger in the neighborhood is subject to profiling. On the other hand if a white boy mistakenly walks into a "bad neighborhood" he can consider himself lucky if he is just "profiled". When he is beaten and robbed or the Police find his dead body the first question is "what was he doing there".

 

[Publius1787]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

Here is the study http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
Here is the cspan video explaining the findings of the study with a Q & A secession Race and Crime Report - C-SPAN Video Library

Thanks for the link. I looked up the New Century Foundation in Wikipedia, here is the first sentence from that site:

"The New Century Foundation is an organization founded in 1994 known primarily for publishing American Renaissance. From 1994 to 1999 its activities received considerable funding by the Pioneer Fund,[1][2][3] and has been described as a white supremacist group,[4] which its founder, Jared Taylor, denies, calling it white separatist."

Now, I'm not suggesting the numbers posted are not true, I have no way of knowing if they are true or not. However, I also looked up the Pioneer Fund and given what I've learned in just a few minutes suggests the agenda of these groups isn't something I'd be proud to offer as a source for anything.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled them as racists. Indeed many of them do believe in racial differences on the bases of genetics and racial make up. I do not. I blame it on cultural make up. You can take an black infant out of the ghetto and raise him as a wealthy white child and he will convey the culture of his adopted parents. Nevertheless, whatever you believe about those numbers and the way they were portrayed, they hint at neither racism nor cultural differences. Indeed, citing an accurate study based on objective federal and public data as presented objectively by an unpopular group certainly opens me up for criticism by those who would ignore the methodology and attack the group. Doing so takes the objectivity out of objective data. Whatever their ends, their data is accurate and thus I stand by the study. Academic honesty demands objective analysis even if conducted by those you disagree with.

 

[Sallow]

I know the PC response, not all black people are criminals, not all Hispanics are illegals, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. and they have some legitimacy, but it's doesn't defute the fact that profiling is necessary.

For instances, ask any Chicago Cop, if he sees a car full of white kids near Humbolt Park, he pulls them over immediately, because they are on their way to purchase drugs or have purchased drugs.

I talked to a cop buddy of mine who works in a bad part of the city. Nearly all black. Whites get pulled over immediately (doesn't matter how many in the car). A car full of blacks gets pulled over, because in his experience, 9 out of 10 times, he finds things above weed possession.

Now take a black youth in a white neighborhood looking like a thug, why wouldn't a cop or NEIGHBORHOOD watch personal view this person as suspicious. They don't need to arrest him, but they could question him. Heck even a thuggish or drug addict looking white person should be questioned!

Profiling is done for serial killers. First thing they profile is a middle aged white guy and then go from there.

Sorry Muslims, but you are the majority of terrorists in the WORLD at the moment, you should be viewed with extra scrutiny in terrorist cases and vulnerable areas.

Profiling isn't without it's victims, but it's a necessary evil in protecting one's community and law enforcement!

It's not a "PC" response..it's a Citizen response.

No American Citizen should be automatically suspected of criminal activity based on what they look like.

It's a violation of our civil liberties.

When people talk about institutional racism, this is a prime example of it.

 

[squeeze berry]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

and what is the whole story?

BTW, you can find the same info other places

 

[bitterlyclingin]

When a man of any skin color enters a busy supermarket on a hot, 96 degrees, and humid July day wearing a parka suitable for ten or twenty degree below zero weather, there's very little doubt about what his immediate intentions are. Insert the words "Stealing", "Stealing" into the melody of Barabara Streisands 1960's era hit song "Feelings" for a clue for the clueless.

One of them entered the store attired in that very way one day and store security paid close attention to him immediately upon entry. When he was observed busily stuffing store merchandise into the parka's plentiful supply of pockets, an effort to apprehend him was made. Surrounded by store security and several ordinary employees the would be thief then brandished a large knife and began to chase the employees across the sales floor. At some point the would be thief stowed the knife at which point the store employees again gave pursuit. This little Keystone Cops routine went on for some roughly twenty minutes inside the store, thief pulls knife chasing away employees, thief puts away knife, employees give pursuit. Gradually the little circus worked its way out into the parking lot and onto the vacant lot next door. After about fourty five minutes, (better than Detroit, but not by much) the police finally arive with one cruiser driving across the vacant lot in the thief's direction, at which point the thief begins hurling rocks at the oncoming police car. The police officer later remarked, after the thief had been safely subdued, bundled up and carted off, "I didn't know whether to shoot him or run him down with the car"

 

[squeeze berry]

I know the PC response, not all black people are criminals, not all Hispanics are illegals, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. and they have some legitimacy, but it's doesn't defute the fact that profiling is necessary.

For instances, ask any Chicago Cop, if he sees a car full of white kids near Humbolt Park, he pulls them over immediately, because they are on their way to purchase drugs or have purchased drugs.

I talked to a cop buddy of mine who works in a bad part of the city. Nearly all black. Whites get pulled over immediately (doesn't matter how many in the car). A car full of blacks gets pulled over, because in his experience, 9 out of 10 times, he finds things above weed possession.

Now take a black youth in a white neighborhood looking like a thug, why wouldn't a cop or NEIGHBORHOOD watch personal view this person as suspicious. They don't need to arrest him, but they could question him. Heck even a thuggish or drug addict looking white person should be questioned!

Profiling is done for serial killers. First thing they profile is a middle aged white guy and then go from there.

Sorry Muslims, but you are the majority of terrorists in the WORLD at the moment, you should be viewed with extra scrutiny in terrorist cases and vulnerable areas.

Profiling isn't without it's victims, but it's a necessary evil in protecting one's community and law enforcement!

It's not a "PC" response..it's a Citizen response.

No American Citizen should be automatically suspected of criminal activity based on what they look like.

It's a violation of our civil liberties.

When people talk about institutional racism, this is a prime example of it.

no one can enjoy liberty if the are taking a dirt nap.

I'll agree that law enforcement should not profile on race, sex , religion or national origin alone.

But put two or more together and throw in suspicious activity??????

 

[Pete7469]

Why?

Because it's an effective law enforcement tactic, and in order to be a liberal you're either an idiot that doesn't have sense enough to see the negative effects of your policies or you're a criminally insane sociopath.

Liberals don't want effective policing, they need the chaos and crime in order to push forth their agenda of control. They piss and moan about how inner city crime is rampant and how it's because whitey doesn't care about the inner cities. Then when cops do something proactive, or God forbid shoots a violent repeat felon, the Dept is tied up with lawsuits and arbitration costing millions in legal fees paid to leftist legal thugs.

It's a vicious cycle.

 

[Publius1787]

I know the PC response, not all black people are criminals, not all Hispanics are illegals, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. and they have some legitimacy, but it's doesn't defute the fact that profiling is necessary.

For instances, ask any Chicago Cop, if he sees a car full of white kids near Humbolt Park, he pulls them over immediately, because they are on their way to purchase drugs or have purchased drugs.

I talked to a cop buddy of mine who works in a bad part of the city. Nearly all black. Whites get pulled over immediately (doesn't matter how many in the car). A car full of blacks gets pulled over, because in his experience, 9 out of 10 times, he finds things above weed possession.

Now take a black youth in a white neighborhood looking like a thug, why wouldn't a cop or NEIGHBORHOOD watch personal view this person as suspicious. They don't need to arrest him, but they could question him. Heck even a thuggish or drug addict looking white person should be questioned!

Profiling is done for serial killers. First thing they profile is a middle aged white guy and then go from there.

Sorry Muslims, but you are the majority of terrorists in the WORLD at the moment, you should be viewed with extra scrutiny in terrorist cases and vulnerable areas.

Profiling isn't without it's victims, but it's a necessary evil in protecting one's community and law enforcement!

It's not a "PC" response..it's a Citizen response.

No American Citizen should be automatically suspected of criminal activity based on what they look like.

It's a violation of our civil liberties.

When people talk about institutional racism, this is a prime example of it.

I believe the jury is out on this one. Even blacks think blacks are breeding a culture of racism more so than that of whites.

More Americans View Blacks As Racist Than Whites, Hispanics - Rasmussen Reports?

Among black Americans, 31% think most blacks are racist, while 24% consider most whites racist and 15% view most Hispanics that way.

Nevertheless, if a white neighborhood had a crime rate 3 times that of a black neighborhood I would suggest the police use their scarce resources mostly in the white neighborhood. The same if reversed. Is that profiling? Sure. Is it wrong? Absolutely not. If you can place only 5 people at the scene of a murder and 4 of them are elderly my money would be on the guy who isn't elderly. Could I be wrong? Sure. However, the numbers are in my favor. Indeed, I would bet good money on it knowing nothing but their age. Is that ageism?

 

[squeeze berry]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

Here is the study http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
Here is the cspan video explaining the findings of the study with a Q & A secession Race and Crime Report - C-SPAN Video Library

Thanks for the link. I looked up the New Century Foundation in Wikipedia, here is the first sentence from that site:

"The New Century Foundation is an organization founded in 1994 known primarily for publishing American Renaissance. From 1994 to 1999 its activities received considerable funding by the Pioneer Fund,[1][2][3] and has been described as a white supremacist group,[4] which its founder, Jared Taylor, denies, calling it white separatist."

Now, I'm not suggesting the numbers posted are not true, I have no way of knowing if they are true or not. However, I also looked up the Pioneer Fund and given what I've learned in just a few minutes suggests the agenda of these groups isn't something I'd be proud to offer as a source for anything.

I'm certain you get your talking points from the NAACP, right?

Why in hell the NAACP is not labeled a hate group is beyond comprehension

 

[Skull Pilot]

My biggest problem is that profiling always leads to the harassment of innocent citizens.

Cops need probable cause and skin color, bumper stickers, wardrobe choices etc are not probable cause

 

[Wry Catcher]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

and what is the whole story?

BTW, you can find the same info other places

The who is posted, not the why.

 

[KissMy]

Why are gun owners always profiled, chased, stopped, harassed, beaten & or arrested???

[youtube]OWpGRnldTp0[/youtube]

 

[Publius1787]

My biggest problem is that profiling always leads to the harassment of innocent citizens.

Cops need probable cause and skin color, bumper stickers, wardrobe choices etc are not probable cause

Race aside, let's say your police department is in charge of policing two equally populated neighborhoods. One has a crime rate 5 times that of the other. Which one do you dedicate most of your recourses toward? Be careful, if the more violent neighborhood happens to be a black neighborhood liberals will accuse you of "violating civil liberties" via racial profiling. Walk alone as an unarmed white guy through the SE side of Chicago projects and try not to profile. Good luck! That's a good way to get yourself killed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My biggest problem is that profiling always leads to the harassment of innocent citizens.

Cops need probable cause and skin color, bumper stickers, wardrobe choices etc are not probable cause

Race aside, let's say your police department is in charge of policing two equally populated neighborhoods. One has a crime rate 5 times that of the other. Which one do you dedicate most of your recourses toward?

That has nothing to do with profiling individuals or groups.

If three people are walking down the street and a cop decides to stop just one of them because of skin color, style of dress etc with no reason then that is profiling.

My town doesn't even have a police department. There is little or no crime. We have 2 state troopers assigned to the town hall.

Now 100 miles south of me the crime rate is very high and there are more cops assigned to that area.

That is not profiling.

 

[Billy000]

I know the PC response, not all black people are criminals, not all Hispanics are illegals, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. and they have some legitimacy, but it's doesn't defute the fact that profiling is necessary.

For instances, ask any Chicago Cop, if he sees a car full of white kids near Humbolt Park, he pulls them over immediately, because they are on their way to purchase drugs or have purchased drugs.

I talked to a cop buddy of mine who works in a bad part of the city. Nearly all black. Whites get pulled over immediately (doesn't matter how many in the car). A car full of blacks gets pulled over, because in his experience, 9 out of 10 times, he finds things above weed possession.

Now take a black youth in a white neighborhood looking like a thug, why wouldn't a cop or NEIGHBORHOOD watch personal view this person as suspicious. They don't need to arrest him, but they could question him. Heck even a thuggish or drug addict looking white person should be questioned!

Profiling is done for serial killers. First thing they profile is a middle aged white guy and then go from there.

Sorry Muslims, but you are the majority of terrorists in the WORLD at the moment, you should be viewed with extra scrutiny in terrorist cases and vulnerable areas.

Profiling isn't without it's victims, but it's a necessary evil in protecting one's community and law enforcement!

If you are a conservative then you are such a hypocrite. You value the importance of protecting civil liberties for yourself, yet when it comes to minorities, profiling is acceptable.

Typical.

 

[Pete7469]

I know the PC response, not all black people are criminals, not all Hispanics are illegals, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. and they have some legitimacy, but it's doesn't defute the fact that profiling is necessary.

For instances, ask any Chicago Cop, if he sees a car full of white kids near Humbolt Park, he pulls them over immediately, because they are on their way to purchase drugs or have purchased drugs.

I talked to a cop buddy of mine who works in a bad part of the city. Nearly all black. Whites get pulled over immediately (doesn't matter how many in the car). A car full of blacks gets pulled over, because in his experience, 9 out of 10 times, he finds things above weed possession.

Now take a black youth in a white neighborhood looking like a thug, why wouldn't a cop or NEIGHBORHOOD watch personal view this person as suspicious. They don't need to arrest him, but they could question him. Heck even a thuggish or drug addict looking white person should be questioned!

Profiling is done for serial killers. First thing they profile is a middle aged white guy and then go from there.

Sorry Muslims, but you are the majority of terrorists in the WORLD at the moment, you should be viewed with extra scrutiny in terrorist cases and vulnerable areas.

Profiling isn't without it's victims, but it's a necessary evil in protecting one's community and law enforcement!

It's not a "PC" response..it's a Citizen response.

No American Citizen should be automatically suspected of criminal activity based on what they look like.

It's a violation of our civil liberties.

When people talk about institutional racism, this is a prime example of it.

Swallow's idiocy illustrates a big part of our cultural problems.

If you carry yourself like a slob, people will consider you a slob. If you drive around parks in a beat up van and stare at people's kids, they'll figure you for a pervert. If you walk around with long unkempt hair and a leather biker jacket they'll assume you're into dope. If you walk around with your britches around your knees people will assume you're a thug.

If I walk around in a black neighborhood after midnight, it's a good chance I'll be faced with either a mugging, or a dope peddler. It's also likely I would be stopped by a cop to see if I was looking for dope.

There is nothing wrong with how people react to you when you make the choice to have yourself percieved that way. If you want to work in a professional capacity, don't get tattoos on your face and hands. Perception is reality.

 

[Publius1787]

My biggest problem is that profiling always leads to the harassment of innocent citizens.

Cops need probable cause and skin color, bumper stickers, wardrobe choices etc are not probable cause

Race aside, let's say your police department is in charge of policing two equally populated neighborhoods. One has a crime rate 5 times that of the other. Which one do you dedicate most of your recourses toward?

That has nothing to do with profiling individuals or groups.

If three people are walking down the street and a cop decides to stop just one of them because of skin color, style of dress etc with no reason then that is profiling.

My town doesn't even have a police department. There is little or no crime. We have 2 state troopers assigned to the town hall.

Now 100 miles south of me the crime rate is very high and there are more cops assigned to that area.

That is not profiling.

Excellent. What about age? Gender? If you hear gunshots from one gun and you see 5 people running away from a dead body and 4 of them are elderly who do you chase after? 4 of them are running out of fear, one is leaving the crime scene. Who do you choose and why? Certainly the elderly people would be easier to chase down. Would you run past them to get to the younger victim? Would you stop at the first person you could catch?

 

[squeeze berry]

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics"

Numbers don't tell the whole story, and can be used to 'prove' any point.

BTW, the link posted in #5 above doesn't work.

and what is the whole story?

BTW, you can find the same info other places

The who is posted, not the why.

is the "why" relevant or even important?