Tell me how paranoid I am

[musicman]

G.T.'s right. If you see it as a problem, don't just sit around bitching about it. We have a process for challenging these things for a reason. Use it.

Oh, I shall, goldcatt.

I'm sure there are all kinds of advocacy groups just foaming at the mouth for a named plaintiff to take it on, since it's such a no-brainer that it's completely unconstitutional. Go ahead, volunteer, take the plunge!

No need for all that; a rather large advocacy group is gearing up for one hell of a plunge in November.

 

[goldcatt]

G.T.'s right. If you see it as a problem, don't just sit around bitching about it. We have a process for challenging these things for a reason. Use it.

Oh, I shall, goldcatt.

I'm sure there are all kinds of advocacy groups just foaming at the mouth for a named plaintiff to take it on, since it's such a no-brainer that it's completely unconstitutional. Go ahead, volunteer, take the plunge!

No need for all that; a rather large advocacy group is gearing up for one hell of a plunge in November.

Ah yes, the political party as special interest group. You nailed it. That part of it, anyway.

What that has to do with QW's paranoia is another story.

 

[syrenn]

Then why do people wear tin foil hats?

The mind control rays the government has is blocked by them.

But it's not the gubmint you really need to worry about. They're child's play.

It's THEM.

Oh NO! THEM!

 

[syrenn]

What exactly has the government "taken over" with the health care plan? What "power" did they "grab"?

Oh, I don't know - how about "the power to tell me I have to buy health insurance"?

Ok, maybe we should try this again.

What does the government gain from forcing you to buy health insurance? Other than paying off their buddies in the Insurance business?

It buys votes.

 

[syrenn]

Yep...you are misinterpreting what was said. I really don't think you are as stupid as you are pretending to be in this thread, but if you are, my apologies.

lol don't sell anyone short

Nah, we've butted heads a few times and QW's not dumb.

Occasionally deliberately obtuse maybe.

A raging paranoid definitely.

But not stupid.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Oh, I don't know - how about "the power to tell me I have to buy health insurance"?

Ok, maybe we should try this again.

What does the government gain from forcing you to buy health insurance? Other than paying off their buddies in the Insurance business?

It buys votes.

From who? Insurance companies?

 

[syrenn]

Ok, maybe we should try this again.

What does the government gain from forcing you to buy health insurance? Other than paying off their buddies in the Insurance business?

It buys votes.

From who? Insurance companies?

And who is the "government"? Politicians who need votes to keep their jobs.

 

[musicman]

Ah yes, the political party as special interest group. You nailed it. That part of it, anyway.

Actually, the idea - or, more accurately, IDEAL - is political party as servant of the electorate. Won't happen overnight, if it happens at all - the parasites are deeply embedded, and self-government takes energy and commitment. Human nature and history give little reason for optimism, but you gotta fight anyway, don't you?

What that has to do with QW's paranoia is another story.

Been away from here for a long time, and hardly know anyone any more. So, I won't even go in to that!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It buys votes.

From who? Insurance companies?

And who is the "government"? Politicians who need votes to keep their jobs.

But, at least so far, insurance companies don't get to decide who gets elected.

I think it was more of a pay-back thing than a pay-forward thing. But it doesn't really matter, does it? We're still getting fucked, from the front or from the back.

 

[goldcatt]

Ah yes, the political party as special interest group. You nailed it. That part of it, anyway.

Actually, the idea - or, more accurately, IDEAL - is political party as servant of the electorate. Won't happen overnight, if it happens at all - the parasites are deeply embedded, and self-government takes energy and commitment. Human nature and history give little reason for optimism, but you gotta fight anyway, don't you?

What that has to do with QW's paranoia is another story.

Been away from here for a long time, and hardly know anyone any more. So, I won't even go in to that!

Ideally, bumblebees can't fly and trickle down economics should work.

We live in reality, and the reality is the political parties are nothing more than private special interest groups propping up their own power, lining their own pockets and exploiting their target populations within the electorate.

Let me know when you wake up.

 

[musicman]

Ideally, bumblebees can't fly and trickle down economics should work.

We live in reality, and the reality is the political parties are nothing more than private special interest groups propping up their own power, lining their own pockets and exploiting their target populations within the electorate.

Let me know when you wake up.

I repeat - you gotta fight anyway, don't you?

 

[goldcatt]

Ideally, bumblebees can't fly and trickle down economics should work.

We live in reality, and the reality is the political parties are nothing more than private special interest groups propping up their own power, lining their own pockets and exploiting their target populations within the electorate.

Let me know when you wake up.

I repeat - you gotta fight anyway, don't you?

Depends what you're fighting for. From your earlier quip, sounds like you're a partisan. I don't know you from Jack and could be wrong, but I doubt it. So what is it you want to accomplish by supporting a broken system you're claiming to fight?

 

[syrenn]

From who? Insurance companies?

And who is the "government"? Politicians who need votes to keep their jobs.

But, at least so far, insurance companies don't get to decide who gets elected.

I think it was more of a pay-back thing than a pay-forward thing. But it doesn't really matter, does it? We're still getting fucked, from the front or from the back.

Yes we are, and you forgot about sideways.

 

[musicman]

Depends what you're fighting for. From your earlier quip, sounds like you're a partisan. I don't know you from Jack and could be wrong, but I doubt it. So what is it you want to accomplish by supporting a broken system you're claiming to fight?

What's the alternative - walking away in disgust? What we have to do is reclaim the process - remain involved and engaged - and pull the plug on every future elected official who shows signs of forgetting who he's working for (a.k.a., "growing into the job"). As I said before, it won't happen overnight, if it happens at all. But, damn - we've got to try! This is supposed to be a constitutional republic. I want it back. I'll fight for it.

 

[MaggieMae]

It buys votes.

From who? Insurance companies?

And who is the "government"? Politicians who need votes to keep their jobs.

What I don't understand is that most people (regardless which political party they support at the moment) all understand that. So why is it some continue to believe that a sweep in November by Republicans will change much? The new House members will still only actually WORK for one year; they'll begin campaigning with their hands out to lobbyists the following year in order to get reelected.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ideally, bumblebees can't fly and trickle down economics should work.

We live in reality, and the reality is the political parties are nothing more than private special interest groups propping up their own power, lining their own pockets and exploiting their target populations within the electorate.

Let me know when you wake up.

I repeat - you gotta fight anyway, don't you?

Campaign finance reform won't work, because the party in power wants to stay in power and don't want something silly like reforming the way they collect donations to affect getting reelected. The only thing that will change the system is a Constitutional Amendment (preferably a Constitutional Convention, which would be quicker and easier) to actually EXTEND the time for House members to remain in their elected seats. Two years means one year, in reality, the way it is Constitutionally mandated now. If it were even amended to three years, at least there would be more time spent on the job. And remember that Congress is only in session about three-quarters of a calendar year (if that).

 

[MaggieMae]

Depends what you're fighting for. From your earlier quip, sounds like you're a partisan. I don't know you from Jack and could be wrong, but I doubt it. So what is it you want to accomplish by supporting a broken system you're claiming to fight?

What's the alternative - walking away in disgust? What we have to do is reclaim the process - remain involved and engaged - and pull the plug on every future elected official who shows signs of forgetting who he's working for (a.k.a., "growing into the job"). As I said before, it won't happen overnight, if it happens at all. But, damn - we've got to try! This is supposed to be a constitutional republic. I want it back. I'll fight for it.

You'll never get 535 lawmakers all to suddenly become sympathetic to what really goes on in the lives of people outside the beltway. When they run, they campaign on what the majority of their constituents say they're interested in, but once they launch themselves on The Hill, it may be a different story. There's also a process. It really doesn't work like Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which any noob (and even new presidents) will tell you.

There's also absolutely no guarantee that even if all your people got elected that it would mean instant change that would be 100% satisfactory to millions of other Americans. Just because you might get some changes back in place that would satisfy your own philosophical outlook doesn't mean I'll like them at all.

 

[musicman]

You'll never get 535 lawmakers all to suddenly become sympathetic to what really goes on in the lives of people outside the beltway.

You are quite right.

There's also absolutely no guarantee that even if all your people got elected that it would mean instant change that would be 100% satisfactory to millions of other Americans.

Right again. And, as I have tried to make clear, I am under no illusions about miracles emanating from political parties. Governments are the creations of men, and are subject to human frailty.

Let me be clearer yet. The GOP have demonstrated, time and again, that they are a gang of maggots who are more than happy to give lip service to conservative principles as long as doing so gets them elected. What they do after they gain power is another story entirely.

So, why will I vote Republican? Quite frankly, it is because His Majesty has got to be put on a leash - NOW. I haven't seen this level of contempt for the American electorate since LBJ - I'm not kidding.

And, what, on the American political scene, has to change? WE do. We, the voters, have to reclaim this process. We have to remain actively involved and engaged, and hold our public servants accountable. I say again - for the third time - it's not going to happen overnight. The Beltway style of doing things - even if beaten back for a time - will always try to reassert itself. Human nature guarantees it. This is a fight we're going to have to figure on being in FROM NOW ON.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If it's unconstitutional then where are all of the tough-guy conservative freedom fighters taking it on in court and winning? Unconstitutional is a fun word to throw around, but when used it should at least have some fucking balls behind it. It's becoming a pretty cheapened expression.

There are a few states taking it to court, and so far the courts have ruled that the case can proceed. While this is not proof of anything, it does at least indicate that it is at least questionable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A government official starts talking about reeducation, and I am a propagandist.

Yep...you are misinterpreting what was said. I really don't think you are as stupid as you are pretending to be in this thread, but if you are, my apologies.

I am misinterpreting nothing. She said it, and I claim that using language like this is indicative of massive ignorance, or stupidity, and some people are trying to say I am the stupid one because I ask what it is she meant. Then you claim I am a propagandist.

If Bush, or anyone that worked for him, had uttered a phrase like this I would be saying the exact same thing, and everyone on the left would be agreeing, but because it was said by a Democrat I am supposed to shrug it off as meaning something else.

And that, somehow, makes me stupid.