Teens can't have their cell phone at Camp?

[KittenKoder]

I couldn't believe she did what she did and then decided to write about it.

Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone - April 1, 2008 - The New York Sun

I don't think I will be following her advice anytime soon.

Helicopter .... your kids will never truly grow up either.

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?" I use to take the NYC buses and subways all the time as a kid, but we all know that those days were a lot merrier and carefree than they are today. As a parent, I have to make a decision how old is old enough for my children to take the subway by themselves. We're not talking about bickering with the teacher about B on an assignment entitled "What I Did During Summer Vacation?" (Which incidentally, never happened in our family.) This is a safety issue.

For those parents who believe that a cellphone or a Blackberry would diminish the camping experience, the solution is simple. Have the cellphone/Blackberry confiscated at the first instance of it being used at an inappropriate time. The children who don't abuse the privilege will hold onto their equipment while the kids who can't help themselves will lose them on the very first day. We all assume that all kids addicted to texting. Not true.

As the number of helicopter parents increases, the fewer adults capable of making intelligent and informed decisions we have. You can't expect to be over protective of someone for 18 years then suddenly toss them into the real world without any experience and then have them make good decisions. The chances of anything truly horrible happening to them are still less than being struck by lightening.

 

[Agnapostate]

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?"

It doesn't, necessarily. However, absolute prohibition of it regardless of the minuscule risks of anything actually happening effectively does.

I use to take the NYC buses and subways all the time as a kid, but we all know that those days were a lot merrier and carefree than they are today.

That seems quite the common perception; however, I've not seen statistical evidence that shows it to be a reality.

 

[JW Frogen]

That seems quite the common perception; however, I've not seen statistical evidence that shows it to be a reality.

I have not seen a unicorn fucking Gene Kelly up the ass. (Even in 'Singing in the Rain'). Until you can prove the contrary, saying you have not proved the contrary, is not an argument.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?"

It doesn't, necessarily. However, absolute prohibition of it regardless of the minuscule risks of anything actually happening effectively does.

So you would allow your 9 year old to ride the subway by him/herself?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Helicopter .... your kids will never truly grow up either.

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?" I use to take the NYC buses and subways all the time as a kid, but we all know that those days were a lot merrier and carefree than they are today. As a parent, I have to make a decision how old is old enough for my children to take the subway by themselves. We're not talking about bickering with the teacher about B on an assignment entitled "What I Did During Summer Vacation?" (Which incidentally, never happened in our family.) This is a safety issue.

For those parents who believe that a cellphone or a Blackberry would diminish the camping experience, the solution is simple. Have the cellphone/Blackberry confiscated at the first instance of it being used at an inappropriate time. The children who don't abuse the privilege will hold onto their equipment while the kids who can't help themselves will lose them on the very first day. We all assume that all kids addicted to texting. Not true.

As the number of helicopter parents increases, the fewer adults capable of making intelligent and informed decisions we have. You can't expect to be over protective of someone for 18 years then suddenly toss them into the real world without any experience and then have them make good decisions. The chances of anything truly horrible happening to them are still less than being struck by lightening.

Why are you opposed to a child having a cellphone at camp? God-forbid, something happens, he/she can use it to call 911. And you have no way of knowing what the chances are of something happening at camp. Even though chances are slim that I would be hit by lightening, I still don't go out and purposely stand under a tree when there is a lightening storm.

 

[KittenKoder]

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?"

It doesn't, necessarily. However, absolute prohibition of it regardless of the minuscule risks of anything actually happening effectively does.

So you would allow your 9 year old to ride the subway by him/herself?

Why not let them learn how to young? The chances of something really bad happening are still less than being struck by lightening. More people per year are struck by lightening.

 

[Agnapostate]

I have not seen a unicorn fucking Gene Kelly up the ass. (Even in 'Singing in the Rain'). Until you can prove the contrary, saying you have not proved the contrary, is not an argument.

Ah, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or rather, a mistaken perception that I offered it. A most clever logical fallacy, but not one with much relevance to my comment.

So you would allow your 9 year old to ride the subway by him/herself?

Yes. Why not?

 

[Amanda]

more meaningfull relationships.......ya right....

i watched this young hip plugged in couple have a nice romantic dinner the other night.....

the texted and or spoke on their phones the entire time not once speaking to each other and ordered their food by pointing after waving off the specials.....

yep .... meaningful ......

not to mention no one takes the time to reflect on who they are or if they even like themselves as they are too busy being connected.....

i have never met so many people who are so uncomfortable in their own skin.....

Anything can be misused. When I'm at dinner with my bf and my phone goes off I look to see who it is, if it's not family I don't take the call. If I'm out with friends jut having fun I text or send pics to other friends, it's a way to be close even if we're apart. I totally get that it's different to "older" people, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it tho.

so let me see if i have this correct....if i am with you i don't get a 100% of your attention .... because your phone and or the friends you aren't with are more important than i am.....

like i said....

If my phone goes off and it's a family member I answer it. There could be an emergency. It's happened before. Do you sit around at home and ignore your phone when it rings? There's nothing wrong, IMO, with finding out what someone wants or need, even if I happen to be having dinner at the time. If it's not important I tell them let me call you back I'm busy right now. It's not the big deal to me that it seems to be for some of you.

 

[KittenKoder]

Anything can be misused. When I'm at dinner with my bf and my phone goes off I look to see who it is, if it's not family I don't take the call. If I'm out with friends jut having fun I text or send pics to other friends, it's a way to be close even if we're apart. I totally get that it's different to "older" people, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it tho.

so let me see if i have this correct....if i am with you i don't get a 100% of your attention .... because your phone and or the friends you aren't with are more important than i am.....

like i said....

If my phone goes off and it's a family member I answer it. There could be an emergency. It's happened before. Do you sit around at home and ignore your phone when it rings? There's nothing wrong, IMO, with finding out what someone wants or need, even if I happen to be having dinner at the time. If it's not important I tell them let me call you back I'm busy right now. It's not the big deal to me that it seems to be for some of you.

My best friend has a cell phone ... for work only, her personal cell she leaves at home when she's out and about, let's the voice mail pick up, unless she's not with someone else. I don't even use a cell, I use email, if you want my attention it's face to face or a quick email and maybe I'll call you. Home phone ... I turn it off when someone's visiting. If someone I was with got more than one call per hour, and they answered and talked for more than 30 secs ... I'm gone, unless it's work. If you want to talk on the phone, fine, just don't expect others to like it just because you do. As for camp, you go there to *gasp* camp! How odd is that, you go there to socialize with and in nature, to be a part of the real world, digital world is fun, but there is a time and place for everything.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I have not seen a unicorn fucking Gene Kelly up the ass. (Even in 'Singing in the Rain'). Until you can prove the contrary, saying you have not proved the contrary, is not an argument.

Ah, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or rather, a mistaken perception that I offered it. A most clever logical fallacy, but not one with much relevance to my comment.

So you would allow your 9 year old to ride the subway by him/herself?

Yes. Why not?

Because the child is 9 years old. Subways are crowded in Manhattan and I have no control over who is in the subway. I'm not willing to take chance that something might happen to my 9 year old.

 

[Amanda]

Generalize much? This coming from you is a little hard to swallow, pardon the pun. Now you're saying all your camp counselors tried to molest underage kids.



If that's the only thing you ever saw, I'm sure you reported it, right? Or was every single counselor there trying to "get some" from the underage kids.

I didn't say all of them did it, where does that come from? You're getting as bad as KK just making up whatever you think will make your position look better.

My experience with councilors was that they had little to no idea about "nature" and were just doing an easy summer job. "Taking care of" something would have required effort, I didn't see any of that. I saw them look the other way when they could have been helpful and I saw them trying to get laid. What I reported or participated in isn't the subject of the thread. If you can give me your word that if I speak frankly the thread won't be closed or my posts edited or deleted I'll go into some detail, but I'm sick and tired of getting my posts selectively removed and threads closed so that the truth isn't what is left as a record. Since I doubt you can trump Gunny I don't think you can make that promise. But LMK, k?

no, somehow i missed it.
my loss, i'm sure.

Yeah, you'd be amazed at how many perverts there are!

Didn't Tech say he got a 33%, and he's pretty experienced? He said to get below that you had to have had sex with dead people, animals and children!

You're putting the emphasis in the wrong place (I'm guessing on purpose for your own amusement). I said "take care of". You know, proactive action. You know, the subject we were talking about before you decided to run off and make it everything any of the councilors ever did.

LMK if talking about this is ever more important that appearing clever and maybe we can take up the subject again.
-

Yeah, well Tech is mistaken. I don't think he was commenting in an authoritative way about the test he was just giving his perception. And I would have said more about my answers except we all know that when I say anything like that my posts get deleted or the thread gets closed. And yes, I do complain about it, but only when the subject comes up. And I complain about it because there's a double standard on this board. Apparently if you're sneaking up on menopause you can talk about sex or anything related to it all you like, but this isn't allowed if you're me. I've had discussions with Gunny on this subject and I'm trying to do my best to respect his wishes. So yeah, it gets old being painted in a certain light and not being able to defend myself, or at the least speak my own truth.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Anything can be misused. When I'm at dinner with my bf and my phone goes off I look to see who it is, if it's not family I don't take the call. If I'm out with friends jut having fun I text or send pics to other friends, it's a way to be close even if we're apart. I totally get that it's different to "older" people, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it tho.

so let me see if i have this correct....if i am with you i don't get a 100% of your attention .... because your phone and or the friends you aren't with are more important than i am.....

like i said....

If my phone goes off and it's a family member I answer it. There could be an emergency. It's happened before. Do you sit around at home and ignore your phone when it rings? There's nothing wrong, IMO, with finding out what someone wants or need, even if I happen to be having dinner at the time. If it's not important I tell them let me call you back I'm busy right now. It's not the big deal to me that it seems to be for some of you.

I think an extended conversation on the phone is not appropriate, but if it is a family member I think it's permissable, as long as the call is brief. It shouldn't overshadow the dinner. Even when I am home and I have a guest visiting, I may take a call, but will tell the caller I have someone visiting and will call back. It's pretty rude to talk to someone on the phone for a half hour while you're entertaining.

 

[Amanda]

I couldn't believe she did what she did and then decided to write about it.

Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone - April 1, 2008 - The New York Sun

I don't think I will be following her advice anytime soon.

Helicopter .... your kids will never truly grow up either.

I may give you some leeway because you don't at this point have kids of your own, but how does wishing to accompany a 9 year old child on the subway consititute in some way as being a "helicopter parent?" I use to take the NYC buses and subways all the time as a kid, but we all know that those days were a lot merrier and carefree than they are today. As a parent, I have to make a decision how old is old enough for my children to take the subway by themselves. We're not talking about bickering with the teacher about B on an assignment entitled "What I Did During Summer Vacation?" (Which incidentally, never happened in our family.) This is a safety issue.

For those parents who believe that a cellphone or a Blackberry would diminish the camping experience, the solution is simple. Have the cellphone/Blackberry confiscated at the first instance of it being used at an inappropriate time. The children who don't abuse the privilege will hold onto their equipment while the kids who can't help themselves will lose them on the very first day. We all assume that all kids addicted to texting. Not true.

Ya know PC, it's a trust issue. I keep hearing about this "helicopter parent" thing and it seems like the only ones doing the helicopter thing on this issue are those that are trying to micro manage some kids cell phone usage.

Set rules like no texting on a hike and if the kid does it they lose the phone for the rest of the hike or the rest of the day or whatever. But to deny kids an opportunity to be responsible is the worst approach you could take. I hear all this chest thumping about how to make kids into better adults.... so ya think you're going to do that by not trusting them to use their phone appropriately. I mean, could the issue be any more trivial? Why not ration toilet paper and make them go to a special councilor when they need their ass wiped? Srsly, if you think kids are immature it's because of crap like this, they aren't treated with any respect for being people.

 

[KittenKoder]

I have not seen a unicorn fucking Gene Kelly up the ass. (Even in 'Singing in the Rain'). Until you can prove the contrary, saying you have not proved the contrary, is not an argument.

Ah, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or rather, a mistaken perception that I offered it. A most clever logical fallacy, but not one with much relevance to my comment.

So you would allow your 9 year old to ride the subway by him/herself?

Yes. Why not?

Because the child is 9 years old. Subways are crowded in Manhattan and I have no control over who is in the subway. I'm not willing to take chance that something might happen to my 9 year old.

You don't want the kid to be in a situation with a lower chance of being struck by lightening so you instead lock them in a safe until they hit 18 and expect them to know how to live ... yeah, that's smart. Dumbing down of America is complete!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or rather, a mistaken perception that I offered it. A most clever logical fallacy, but not one with much relevance to my comment.



Yes. Why not?

Because the child is 9 years old. Subways are crowded in Manhattan and I have no control over who is in the subway. I'm not willing to take chance that something might happen to my 9 year old.

You don't want the kid to be in a situation with a lower chance of being struck by lightening so you instead lock them in a safe until they hit 18 and expect them to know how to live ... yeah, that's smart. Dumbing down of America is complete!

Tell me, do you have home-owners insurance which cover you for events that might be along the order of getting hit by lightning, as in being hit by lightning?

And is it your position that ones house is more important that ones children?

As that great seer Yogi Berra so correctly stated: "predicting is really hard, especially about the future."

Now let's deal with your crystal ball: it is another of your positions that you know exactly how much independence I give my children?

 

[KittenKoder]

Because the child is 9 years old. Subways are crowded in Manhattan and I have no control over who is in the subway. I'm not willing to take chance that something might happen to my 9 year old.

You don't want the kid to be in a situation with a lower chance of being struck by lightening so you instead lock them in a safe until they hit 18 and expect them to know how to live ... yeah, that's smart. Dumbing down of America is complete!

Tell me, do you have home-owners insurance which cover you for events that might be along the order of getting hit by lightning, as in being hit by lightning?

And is it your position that ones house is more important that ones children?

As that great seer Yogi Berra so correctly stated: "predicting is really hard, especially about the future."

Now let's deal with your crystal ball: it is another of your positions that you know exactly how much independence I give my children?

You're a common paranoid parent, you see a news story and think "they're everywhere!" Well, the reality, for every new story about one person getting harmed, there are billions of stories not shown about people doing the right thing. So yeah, you are just being paranoid and it's not healthy to children for their parents to be paranoid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You don't want the kid to be in a situation with a lower chance of being struck by lightening so you instead lock them in a safe until they hit 18 and expect them to know how to live ... yeah, that's smart. Dumbing down of America is complete!

Tell me, do you have home-owners insurance which cover you for events that might be along the order of getting hit by lightning, as in being hit by lightning?

And is it your position that ones house is more important that ones children?

As that great seer Yogi Berra so correctly stated: "predicting is really hard, especially about the future."

Now let's deal with your crystal ball: it is another of your positions that you know exactly how much independence I give my children?

You're a common paranoid parent, you see a news story and think "they're everywhere!" Well, the reality, for every new story about one person getting harmed, there are billions of stories not shown about people doing the right thing. So yeah, you are just being paranoid and it's not healthy to children for their parents to be paranoid.

The term empathy is more central to this discussion than paranoid.

For whatever reason, you seem unable to recognize how important our children are to most parents.

 

[KittenKoder]

Tell me, do you have home-owners insurance which cover you for events that might be along the order of getting hit by lightning, as in being hit by lightning?

And is it your position that ones house is more important that ones children?

As that great seer Yogi Berra so correctly stated: "predicting is really hard, especially about the future."

Now let's deal with your crystal ball: it is another of your positions that you know exactly how much independence I give my children?

You're a common paranoid parent, you see a news story and think "they're everywhere!" Well, the reality, for every new story about one person getting harmed, there are billions of stories not shown about people doing the right thing. So yeah, you are just being paranoid and it's not healthy to children for their parents to be paranoid.

The term empathy is more central to this discussion than paranoid.

For whatever reason, you seem unable to recognize how important our children are to most parents.

If you were empathetic to your childs needs then you would let them make mistakes and get hurt sometimes, so when they are adults they will know how to live.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You're a common paranoid parent, you see a news story and think "they're everywhere!" Well, the reality, for every new story about one person getting harmed, there are billions of stories not shown about people doing the right thing. So yeah, you are just being paranoid and it's not healthy to children for their parents to be paranoid.

The term empathy is more central to this discussion than paranoid.

For whatever reason, you seem unable to recognize how important our children are to most parents.

If you were empathetic to your childs needs then you would let them make mistakes and get hurt sometimes, so when they are adults they will know how to live.

Since you don't have any knowledge as to my child-rearing other than the specifics of allowing a young one to ride the subway alone, it makes one wonder about the chip on your shoulder.

Is there some expertise you have that has not yet make its appearance? Some experience?

Is it parents you dislike, or children?

 

[KittenKoder]

The term empathy is more central to this discussion than paranoid.

For whatever reason, you seem unable to recognize how important our children are to most parents.

If you were empathetic to your childs needs then you would let them make mistakes and get hurt sometimes, so when they are adults they will know how to live.

Since you don't have any knowledge as to my child-rearing other than the specifics of allowing a young one to ride the subway alone, it makes one wonder about the chip on your shoulder.

Is there some expertise you have that has not yet make its appearance? Some experience?

Is it parents you dislike, or children?

Chip on my shoulder ... hmm ... could it be that lately teens and young adults are now so stupid I can't stand them all because they are not allowed to learn anything and the effects are that life for those of us who do know how to live because we learned it when we were capable of doing such are made that much more difficult? Naw ... nothing wrong with idiot adults now entering the world.

Also, no, I will not mention my expertise on this matter, it's more fun to watch you guess. So, let's make this a little more simplistic so you can understand it better and so that I can at least attempt to make it clear:

Do your kids know that fire is hot and hurts?