Teaching Slavery in School--Sensitivity v. Erasing History

[SweetSue92]

I have you on ignore Joe and very rarely click on "ignored poster" to read but did today. Just for you, a true story from my classroom: waiting for their teacher to come pick them up from my class the other day, a third grader in line asked her classmates, "How many of you believe in God and Jesus?" About 80% of them raised their hands. I just smiled and let this go on, see.

This is freedom of speech. I did not solicit this question, nor ever could I, or would I. But it was free time and I have no right to shut it down either. It certainly was not an inappropriate question. So you enjoy that.

Well, 20% can potentially think for themselves at that age, despite your attempts at brainwashing, so that's progress.

Right Joe. They love Row Row Row Your Boat and If You're Happy and You Know It

I'd be more impressed if you taught them how to read and write, given what I see with these kids today, honestly.

Then again, I have a business predicated on the fact most people can't write for shit... so maybe not. Carry on with your incompetence.

Can't brainwash 'em Joe. And though I am a lowly music teacher, it's evident that my reading and writing skills far exceed yours. Back to ignore you go!

 

[SandSquid]

Not exactly Sue. Blacks bought here were denied the use of their language and culture. They were basically forced to copy whites. But if you want to take it there, it was blacks that took Europe out of the dark ages. I'm not the one who initially bought up cultural appropriation. You did. So don't bring up a topic then talk to me like I have 2 left feet because you get called out about it.

So left to their own devices, black people would never copy the music, art, food and dance of those around them. Fascinating.

Also, I don't believe you.

Maybe you should go back to school and learn how things actually happened. It was illegal for blacks to learn how to read or write. Therefore your claims of blacks stealing things from whites dies right there.

So. To recap. All my white examples are bad examples, of course--but blacks took Europe out of the dark ages AND they never, ever borrow culture from others. Only when they are FORCED to. I mean, contrary to every other human group in the history of the entire world. I put my own human group soundly in that category of course.

I gotcha, I really do.

So wait. Blacks were taken from their homes, sold as slaves, owned by white people in the America's who forced them to give up their language, religion, names, and culture and instead adopt the culture of their masters. And now you are upset they appropriated that culture that was forced upon them?

That's pretty sickening.

Absolutely NOT. Every culture borrows from others, especially as concerning the arts. This does not bother me and never has, no matter WHAT race, religion or culture we're talking about. The poster in question seems to be making the point that blacks never borrowed from any other culture and that, of course, is just wrong.

Do not mistake what I say and then get outraged about what I didn't say.

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

 

[IM2]

Who says I was not offended? Whites did steal black music. Ask Pat Boone.

And the African slaves who were brought here against their will "stole" many, many, MANY elements of the European-influences folk music and religious songs that were already here.

That's how you arrived at the African-American Spiritual. Without it, you'd have the slaves singing only their African music for the duration. They "stole" the music already here--with their own African elements as well.

This is how music has been made from the beginning of time. Your railing about it won't change that.

Not exactly Sue. Blacks bought here were denied the use of their language and culture. They were basically forced to copy whites. But if you want to take it there, it was blacks that took Europe out of the dark ages. I'm not the one who initially bought up cultural appropriation. You did. So don't bring up a topic then talk to me like I have 2 left feet because you get called out about it.

So left to their own devices, black people would never copy the music, art, food and dance of those around them. Fascinating.

Also, I don't believe you.

Maybe you should go back to school and learn how things actually happened. It was illegal for blacks to learn how to read or write. Therefore your claims of blacks stealing things from whites dies right there.

So. To recap. All my white examples are bad examples, of course--but blacks took Europe out of the dark ages AND they never, ever borrow culture from others. Only when they are FORCED to. I mean, contrary to every other human group in the history of the entire world. I put my own human group soundly in that category of course.

I gotcha, I really do.

Wrong. I gave you props for taking the time to learn something many white don't care to know. But when you started that garbage about blacks copying white music without accurately depicting everything thar went on, that's where you turned right. Yes, blacks took Europe out of the dark ages. And blacks were forced to give up our language, religion, names, and culture and instead adopt the culture of their masters. My last name today is English, my ancestors didn't choose to copy that.

No, you don't get it. There are harsh realities of this nations history we all must face. The halfstory those such as you want to pawn off as fact must not be accepted. So yes, blacks copied white music, but blacks were forced to. Perhaps if that had not happened there would have been things blacks would have copied anyway . But it didn't happen that way and no matter the butthurt you have about being told this erases what happened.

 

[SweetSue92]

So left to their own devices, black people would never copy the music, art, food and dance of those around them. Fascinating.

Also, I don't believe you.

Maybe you should go back to school and learn how things actually happened. It was illegal for blacks to learn how to read or write. Therefore your claims of blacks stealing things from whites dies right there.

So. To recap. All my white examples are bad examples, of course--but blacks took Europe out of the dark ages AND they never, ever borrow culture from others. Only when they are FORCED to. I mean, contrary to every other human group in the history of the entire world. I put my own human group soundly in that category of course.

I gotcha, I really do.

So wait. Blacks were taken from their homes, sold as slaves, owned by white people in the America's who forced them to give up their language, religion, names, and culture and instead adopt the culture of their masters. And now you are upset they appropriated that culture that was forced upon them?

That's pretty sickening.

Absolutely NOT. Every culture borrows from others, especially as concerning the arts. This does not bother me and never has, no matter WHAT race, religion or culture we're talking about. The poster in question seems to be making the point that blacks never borrowed from any other culture and that, of course, is just wrong.

Do not mistake what I say and then get outraged about what I didn't say.

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

What's your problem? Why do you keep claiming I say things I didn't say?

 

[JoeB131]

Absolutely NOT. Every culture borrows from others, especially as concerning the arts. This does not bother me and never has, no matter WHAT race, religion or culture we're talking about. The poster in question seems to be making the point that blacks never borrowed from any other culture and that, of course, is just wrong.

Do not mistake what I say and then get outraged about what I didn't say.

I think what you said was pretty fucking clear, actually.

Blacks didn't Borrow culture.. Culture came by, kidnapped them, raped them, beat them into submission, forced a religion on them they didn't really want...

Here's Kunta Kinte getting some "Culture" from white folks.

 

[JoeB131]

Can't brainwash 'em Joe. And though I am a lowly music teacher, it's evident that my reading and writing skills far exceed yours. Back to ignore you go!

The one thing I've learned about Religious Crazies is that you never turn it off.

Again, the fact you have to put me on ignore because I whup your ass tells me you just can't hang.

 

[JoeB131]

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

No, no, she claimed they "Borrowed" it.

I borrowed a rake from my neighbors once. Oddly, they didn't whip me into submission and make me do hard labor. They just asked me nicely to return it, which I did.

 

[SandSquid]

Maybe you should go back to school and learn how things actually happened. It was illegal for blacks to learn how to read or write. Therefore your claims of blacks stealing things from whites dies right there.

So. To recap. All my white examples are bad examples, of course--but blacks took Europe out of the dark ages AND they never, ever borrow culture from others. Only when they are FORCED to. I mean, contrary to every other human group in the history of the entire world. I put my own human group soundly in that category of course.

I gotcha, I really do.

So wait. Blacks were taken from their homes, sold as slaves, owned by white people in the America's who forced them to give up their language, religion, names, and culture and instead adopt the culture of their masters. And now you are upset they appropriated that culture that was forced upon them?

That's pretty sickening.

Absolutely NOT. Every culture borrows from others, especially as concerning the arts. This does not bother me and never has, no matter WHAT race, religion or culture we're talking about. The poster in question seems to be making the point that blacks never borrowed from any other culture and that, of course, is just wrong.

Do not mistake what I say and then get outraged about what I didn't say.

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

What's your problem? Why do you keep claiming I say things I didn't say?

"And the African slaves who were brought here against their will "stole" many, many, MANY elements of the European-influences folk music and religious songs that were already here. "

Post 62 by you.

Not sure if you are intentionally being ignorant there, or just don't have the capacity to understand the things you wrote. But that was your statement. Now you seem to either be lying to pretend you didn't write that, or have no knowledge of the things you write. Which is it?

 

[SandSquid]

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

No, no, she claimed they "Borrowed" it.

I borrowed a rake from my neighbors once. Oddly, they didn't whip me into submission and make me do hard labor. They just asked me nicely to return it, which I did.

No. "stole" was the word she used in post #62, not borrowed. Then somehow in her mind repeating her claim was too much for her. Something is clearly wrong with that person.

 

[SandSquid]

Absolutely NOT. Every culture borrows from others, especially as concerning the arts. This does not bother me and never has, no matter WHAT race, religion or culture we're talking about. The poster in question seems to be making the point that blacks never borrowed from any other culture and that, of course, is just wrong.

Do not mistake what I say and then get outraged about what I didn't say.

I think what you said was pretty fucking clear, actually.

Blacks didn't Borrow culture.. Culture came by, kidnapped them, raped them, beat them into submission, forced a religion on them they didn't really want...

Here's Kunta Kinte getting some "Culture" from white folks.

Look at him appropriating and "stealing" white names like Toby.

 

[SweetSue92]

Then maybe you shouldn't make the claim that "They "stole" the music already here"

No, no, she claimed they "Borrowed" it.

I borrowed a rake from my neighbors once. Oddly, they didn't whip me into submission and make me do hard labor. They just asked me nicely to return it, which I did.

No. "stole" was the word she used in post #62, not borrowed. Then somehow in her mind repeating her claim was too much for her. Something is clearly wrong with that person.

Yeah, I used the word "Stole" in quotes--twice--in quotes. I guess you don't know what the quotes mean.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, I used the word "Stole" in quotes--twice--in quotes. I guess you don't know what the quotes mean.

I guess you don't either, but never mind.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

There was nothing factually inaccurate about these words:

America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't.

And the British Empire is gone.

K I don't know what your point is for the purposes of this thread. I'm not teaching that "this nation was founded on freedom and equity"....that's not what I teach. This thread is about what I teach.

Teaching Slavery in School--Sensitivity v. Erasing History

This is the title of your thread. Freedom and Equality has everything to do with it.

AMAZING GRACE

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind, but now I see

‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed

Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come
‘Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home

The Lord has promised good to me; His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be as long as life endures

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail, and mortal life shall cease
I shall possess, within the veil, a life of joy and peace

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow, the sun forbear to shine
But God, who called me here below, will be forever mine

When we’ve been there ten thousands years, bright shining as the sun
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise than when we’d first begun

ALL GOD'S CHILLUN GOT WINGS

I got a robe, you got a robe
All o' God's chillun got a robe
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my robe
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n

I got-a wings, you got-a wings
All o' God's chillun got-a wings
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my wings
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n

I got a harp, you got a harp
All o' God's chillun got a harp
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to take up my harp
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n

I got shoes, you got shoes
All o' God's chillun got shoes
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my shoes
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n

BEAMS OF HEAVEN (SOME DAY)

Beams of heaven, as I go, / Through this wilderness below / Guide my feet in peaceful ways /
Turn my midnights into days / When in the darkness I would grope / Faith always sees a star
of hope / And soon from all life's grief and danger / I shall be free some day

I don't know how long 'twill be / Nor for what the future olds for me / But this I know, if
Jesus leads me / I shall get a home some day

Often times my sky is clear / Joy abounds without a tear / Though a day so bright begun /
Clouds may hide tomorrow's sun / There'll be a day that's always bright / A day that never
yields to night / And in its light the streets of glory / I shall behold some day

Harder yet may be the fight / Right may often yield to might / Wickedness awhile may reign /
Satan's cause may seem to gain / There is a God that rules above / With hand of power and
heart of love / If I am right, He'll fight my battle / I shall have peace some day

Burdens now may crush me down / Disappointments all around / Troubles speak in mournful
sigh / Sorrow through a tear stained eye / There is a world where pleasure reigns / No
mourning soul shall roam its plains / And to that land of peace and glory / I want to go some
day

BEFORE I’D BE A SLAVE (OH, FREEDOM)

Before I’d be a slave
I’d be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord
And be saved

O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’ over me, over me

O, what mourning…

O, what singing…

O, what shouting…

O, weeping Mary…

Doubting Thomas…

O, what sighing

O, Freedom…

Songs about a better life after this one where there is no slavery and all are free and equal.

That's what those spirituals were all about.

All those are on the internet.